[end of the road]

Originally Posted by davidlacey

The exact same is going on in the WRC at the moment is it not no advertising no nice new rolling stock no effort

yes i believe so. it shouldn't have been reopened but it is now. realy it should have only gone limerick ennis athenry oranmore galway with a decent line speed. its hard to say though which rolling stock would have been suited to it had it been done this way, the commuter railcars have less seating but have lots of standing room which would be suited to high capacity routes, the 22000s have more seating but possibly only 2 cars would be required. (please note i'm talking in terms of my suggestion on how it should have been built and what stations should only have been served and not what we have actually got as the WRC)

[davidlacey]

Originally Posted by end of the road

so you want to close the line south of carlow which passes through 2 cities? and no i don't want to get into the debate on whether they actually are cities or not. apparently the sligo line was at risk of closure during the 80s/early 90s? sligo now has a train every 2 hours or so which means their must be a demand for services to it. rosslare has lost one of its services why should it lose all because CIE f//ked up and drove away most of its customers and severed the ferry connection by moving the station (again) and changed the timetable, again we could argue all year about the demand for ferry connections but theirs obviously a demand for such connections otherwise they wouldn't have them at all in the UK.

The rosslare line is a very under utilised route especially thru towns like gorey and arklow. Yes its a single line but there ks definetly room for a two hour per train trial as IE can assume there is no demand but there is no harm in trying especially as it has been a freigt free line for over 10 years now

[end of the road]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Kilkenny is not but Waterford is.

now now. don't start!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by kieran4003

The standard Dublin - Cork time will be 2:20 with two stops. A speed trail train recently covered the route in 2:14 with all speed restrictions. There will be further trials with higher speeds to get an express 2:00 time. Infrastructure investment is finally paying off.

A trial Dublin - Galway train has taken 1:55. Similar improvements will be made here.

The 05:05 Cork - Dublin service is apparently going, but I cold see this causing trouble. Passengers can use the Limerick train. There will be other cuts in services but nothing major. Political services (WRC & Nenagh) are breaking IE.

There is a major drive to get profitable freight services going. Cork- Dublin is being cleared for 9ft 6 containers.

Getting rid of the 0505?? Maybe if it didn't stop everywhere north of the Junction (I presume these are the people who can "use the Limerick train" kieran4003 - and which train?) and it left later it might have better economics. In fact what IE should be doing instead of that is putting on an 0600 Heuston-Cork.

The clearance of Cork is 9'6" with pockets, right? That's been known for a while, now that North Wall is cleared (albeit with a couple of SRs) for 9'6" on standard. Still a mystery what is going to be shipped where for all this effort.

[foggy_lad]

Originally Posted by end of the road

so you want to close the line south of carlow which passes through 2 cities? and no i don't want to get into the debate on whether they actually are cities or not. apparently the sligo line was at risk of closure during the 80s/early 90s? sligo now has a train every 2 hours or so which means their must be a demand for services to it. rosslare has lost one of its services why should it lose all because CIE f//ked up and drove away most of its customers and severed the ferry connection by moving the station (again) and changed the timetable, again we could argue all year about the demand for ferry connections but theirs obviously a demand for such connections otherwise they wouldn't have them at all in the UK.

Not many people from Waterford or Kilkenny use the train, most drive or get the bus for price speed and comfort. And the Sligo line is still at risk just as soon as someone starts up a limited stop bus service cutting out all the villages on the route. But your right 8 bright comfortable and clean trains a day and 6 on Sundays is a massive improvement on the dirty smelly old sh1t boxes I remember from 20 years ago that went 4times a day but the track is still in bits for much of the journey!

Why should rosslare have a service at all? There is a perfectly adequate bus service that is faster than the train and runs hourly daytime and every two hours between 9pm and 7am as well as buses to cork limerick Waterford and Wexford. Just because England has railway lines serving ferry ports does not mean Ireland should have the same! Just because England has a sh1t does not mean ireland has to get in the que for the loo!

[end of the road]

Originally Posted by foggy_lad

Not many people from Waterford or Kilkenny use the train, most drive or get the bus for price speed and comfort.

so IE should be improving things. closing it south of carlow is just taking the lazy way out.

Originally Posted by foggy_lad

the Sligo line is still at risk just as soon as someone starts up a limited stop bus service cutting out all the villages on the route. But your right 8 bright comfortable and clean trains a day and 6 on Sundays is a massive improvement on the dirty smelly old sh1t boxes I remember from 20 years ago that went 4times a day but the track is still in bits for much of the journey

again thats no excuse to close it, investment is what is needed, the roads got it so the railways deserve a piece of the pie. roads are no excuse to get rid of railways, we need an alternative to road transport.

Originally Posted by foggy_lad

Why should rosslare have a service at all?

why shouldn't it?

Originally Posted by foggy_lad

There is a perfectly adequate bus service that is faster than the train and runs hourly daytime and every two hours between 9pm and 7am as well as buses to cork limerick Waterford and Wexford.

not good enough. its no excuse to get rid of the service, their are many good busses around the country but its no excuse to get rid of the railway.

Originally Posted by foggy_lad

Just because England has railway lines serving ferry ports does not mean Ireland should have the same

doesn't mean we should get rid of the services to these ports either. it isn't because the UK has them that we should, its about GOING AFTER as many markets and attracting as many types of tourist to the country as we can, and if their was no demand for ferry connections in this country then their would be no connections on the UK side either, as most of the ferries are from the UK anyway. a couple of the ferries go to france but i don't know how connections work there or if they have them.

[Qualitymark]

The ferry connections in Britain don't work properly any more either. The ferry companies tolerate foot traffic - their preferred customers are driving cars. In Holyhead, the rail lines leading to the quay where the ferries dock are still in existence, but not in use - you get a shuttle bus to the train station, then often have to wait an hour for the train, then, if you're going to London, you have to change at Chester or Crewe, and often wait another hour for this change.

There's not a lot of point looking to the broken society next door, as Irish working-class people usually do; we're better off looking to one of the European societies whose trains work properly, like France.

[davidlacey]

On previous outings on the ferry from dun laoghaire to holyhead the amount of foot passengers was minimal but i think the dublin - rosslare route is more than a ferry route these days. Most of the passengers are people going to work in dublin and coming home in the evenings. But this is getting of the point now....

I think its the wrong attitude to have to think that IE should shut down these links around the country. Shutting down these links as i said before will do nothing but transfer more people to the road and also limit our options getting places. IE needs to cut costs but i believe with a more efficient service, cut in workforce and an end to the money wasting that this company has constantly been involved in, then they might be in a better place in a few years time. But alot of simple things which people have mentioned could be sorted if there was more accountability from the top, who is barry kenny actually accountable to? a board of directors? the government? It is a company plagued with everything that is wrong with semi state companies and needs a major overhall as a company before anything positive gets done, and i realise a private company will not come in to a debt ridden company but one could dream at that possibility

[foggy_lad]

Originally Posted by end of the road

so IE should be improving things. closing it south of carlow is just taking the lazy way out.

again thats no excuse to close it, investment is what is needed, the roads got it so the railways deserve a piece of the pie. roads are no excuse to get rid of railways, we need an alternative to road transport.

why shouldn't it?

not good enough. its no excuse to get rid of the service, their are many good busses around the country but its no excuse to get rid of the railway.

doesn't mean we should get rid of the services to these ports either. it isn't because the UK has them that we should, its about GOING AFTER as many markets and attracting as many types of tourist to the country as we can, and if their was no demand for ferry connections in this country then their would be no connections on the UK side either, as most of the ferries are from the UK anyway. a couple of the ferries go to france but i don't know how connections work there or if they have them.

In short Irish rail have had their chips and far too long IMHO to sort themselves out, there really is no conceivable way that rail travel will be anything other than an expensive plaything for those who frequent first class and a massive burden on the state until it is dismantled. By all means keep old alignments like Waterford to limerick junction but no more care and maintenance please.

As for tourists there are not enough enthusiasts to keep a whole railway network running just for tourism.

There are buses which are faster more comfortable and far cheaper on all routes so get rid of the railway now instead of pouring more money down into the money spong that Irish rail has always been.

[steamengine]

Originally Posted by foggy_lad

In short Irish rail have had their chips and far too long IMHO to sort themselves out, there really is no conceivable way that rail travel will be anything other than an expensive plaything for those who frequent first class and a massive burden on the state until it is dismantled. By all means keep old alignments like Waterford to limerick junction but no more care and maintenance please.

As for tourists there are not enough enthusiasts to keep a whole railway network running just for tourism.

There are buses which are faster more comfortable and far cheaper on all routes so get rid of the railway now instead of pouring more money down into the money spong that Irish rail has always been.

So now we compound all their perceived errors and discard 100's of billions of Euros worth of infrastructure to boot. Brilliant !!!

[bk]

Originally Posted by murphaph

Are you sure? Airline passengers in 1st certainly subsidise the tickets in economy-without 1st a flight to NY would cost significantly more for an economy passenger, even if the whole plane was economy seating. I would imagine it's similar for the railways?

Yes first class subsidies economy on long distance flights, but you can't compare airlines internationally with trains in Ireland.

Think about it, you typically only have first class on long distance flights. Ryanair has no first class or even business class. AerLingus shorthaul has a very basic business class product which is basically only a slightly wider seat and priority boarding.

Basically in airlines people are only interested and willing to pay for first class where you are travelling long distances for many hours and want the comfort of a larger seat to sleep in.

The problem in Ireland is the distances are very short, thus no one is willing to pay the extra for a first class seat to sleep in. The standard class seats are more then good enough for the max 3 hours that most intercity journeys are.

Trains in Ireland are more like short haul airlines and should be compared with those.

First class on trains in Ireland is an expense, not a benefit.

Originally Posted by jacko1

excellent post
The two Cork commuter routes(Cork-Midleton & Cork/Cobh) are a template for a well run rail service.

Yes and this success is down mostly to the Cork City and County Councils and there very long term plans like CASP, which lead it the development of towns in clusters around public transport, etc.

It had little to do with Irish Rail.

Cork is a good example of how to do it right. Long term planning and most importantly executing on that plan (e.g. only granting planning permission for houses in the planned areas). Creation of towns with high population densities close to accessible train stations all along the line, making the train attractive and giving it the passengers it requires to be successful.

This is the total opposite of the Western Rail Corridor thinking where they said built it and they will come and they never came. This is the opposite of just opening rail lines for the sake of opening lines which some people on this forum seem to support.

No we need to encourage and build a really national spatial strategy that will encourage high density urban living in planned towns, then we can make rail work.

[corktina]

Originally Posted by steamengine

So now we compound all their perceived errors and discard 100's of billions of Euros worth of infrastructure to boot. Brilliant !!!

I too am shocked to hear a proposal to close down rail altogether. Certainly suburban routes need to be retained and developed and InterCity has a place on most routes, but needs re-thinking . Other lightly used loss-making lines will have to go though.

[gobnaitolunacy]

Has anyone travelled Business/1st Class/Citygold or whatever they call it now?
What, if any, are the perks?

[foggy_lad]

Originally Posted by steamengine

So now we compound all their perceived errors and discard 100's of billions of Euros worth of infrastructure to boot. Brilliant !!!

100's of Billions??? I doubt very much that the Irish Rail network lock stock and barrel is worth much more than one billion, and if it had to be replaced in its entirety starting tomorrow we would at least be able to discard the dirty old look and feel of Irish rail and build lines where they were needed as well as running all the lines from Heuston station into Dublin

Originally Posted by gobnaitolunacy

Has anyone travelled Business/1st Class/Citygold or whatever they call it now?
What, if any, are the perks?

Yes and you get very little of any value for your €100 return to Belfast. there was a free newspaper but it was the Belfast Telegraph, the seat was comfortable and the carriage seemed very quiet which was great but the overall ride quality was the same because the line is so poor.

There really are no lines in Ireland that deserve a first class service, First class is seen more as an apology to business travellers for the poor ride quality and the long journey times.

[steamengine]

Originally Posted by foggy_lad

100's of Billions??? I doubt very much that the Irish Rail network lock stock and barrel is worth much more than one billion, and if it had to be replaced in its entirety starting tomorrow we would at least be able to discard the dirty old look and feel of Irish rail and build lines where they were needed as well as running all the lines from Heuston station into Dublin

TBH I wouldn't be bothered arguing the toss with you, after advocating the complete closure of the railway system.