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10-07-2012, 10:15   #511
Micky Dolenz
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The advice given on Indymedia isn't much better than the likes of "A Garda can't arrest you if he's not wearing his hat" most of the time.
I was cuffed by a Garda once and she was only wearing her hat.

Good times.
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10-07-2012, 10:19   #512
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I'm sure someone else has mentioned this somewhere in the thread, but if he claims he "couldn't even hear" the gard asking for his driving license etc then number 1: why did he say just before claiming he couldn't hear that "I was going to give it to you" and number 2: how did he expect the gard to hear him shout "the motor is broken" if he says he couldn't hear the gard?
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10-07-2012, 10:24   #513
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It also explains the gardai response. The guards in the YouTube video are there specifically to stop activism (and possibly criminal damage) from Shell to Sea activists. They meet a guy who fails to comply with their requests (and Harnett's advice on the subject is in direct contradiction with that from the Irish Council for Civil Liberties) and then uses a weird formulation of a reply - "I am going about my business" - that they will only have heard before from Shell To Sea activists.

At this point, the gardai are fairly sure that they are dealing with an activist from the very group that they're there to protect the facility from. Now that's not to say that their response is proportionate or correct, but it does explain why they're on edge.

The guards knew from his rote activist response which group he was from - I've no doubt they've heard it before - and since legally they're not only entitled to stop him but also arrest him for non-compliance to garda requests, they then are faced with do we wait it out or get him out of the car before he does damage. Bear in mind that, from their perspective, Shell To Sea activists have already done time for assault on gardai.

I'm filing the YT video under 'colossally disingenuous'.

Gardai specifically there to stop activism?

What? Activism isn't against the law. Peaceful protests are allowed, the last time I checked.
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10-07-2012, 10:53   #514
melekalikimaka
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shell to sea numpties i bet
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10-07-2012, 11:20   #515
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Gardai specifically there to stop activism?

What? Activism isn't against the law. Peaceful protests are allowed, the last time I checked.
I am aware of that, which is why I put in brackets "and possibly criminal damage". Shell To Sea, whether you're sympathetic to their cause or not, have a sizable record of causing criminal damages, as well at least one assault on a garda.

If the Garda are anticipating peaceful protest and activism, then they will police according to those expectations - a largely passive role, confined to crowd control and traffic duties. If they are expecting activism that includes a high potential for criminal damage they will police in a markedly different manner.

In relation to S2S, they'd be forgiven for not knowing whether someone was going to unfurl a banner or take a hammer to a piece of Shell equipment.

One way of clarifying the intent of a protestor would be to see if they have about their vehicle a banner or a hammer. If the driver of a vehicle is unwilling to submit to such a search or interrogation then the guards have the right to arrest that person for further questioning. Even the Irish Council for Civil Liberties acknowledges this to be the case.

If I were to give (unasked for) advice to the S2S campaign it would not to skirt around the Shell facility spouting rote, identikit responses (I am going about my business to the coopers and the haberdashers, i'faith...) that sound as though they came out of the late nineteenth century. It kind of marks you out a tad.

On the other hand, subject to any specific court rulings or police powers regarding the Shell facility itself, while a protestor is legally required to provide a direct response to a direct question, he or she is quite entitled to say "I am here to peacefully protest against the construction and operation of the natural gas pipeline", open the boot to show any banners or placards and be allowed to proceed along their way and pursue their peaceful activism.

Activism is fine. Not responding to garda requests is illegal and opens you to an arrest. Not allowing garda to ascertain the nature of your intended activist actions is also obstruction and non-compliance and similarly can lead to your arrest.

But the YouTube uploader knew all this. Which is why he sought a confrontation and got it.
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10-07-2012, 11:36   #516
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Gardai specifically there to stop activism?

What? Activism isn't against the law. Peaceful protests are allowed, the last time I checked.
If Shell to Sea did peaceful protests, their wouldn't be one guard down there.
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10-07-2012, 11:42   #517
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The guy failed to cooperate with them. You can take this on face value as we can't hear what the guards are saying.
Its a load of bull about the window. It doesn't block sound and sure the guy had three other windows to let down.
In this day and age failing to cooperate with the guards while behind the wheel will be meant with force.
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10-07-2012, 11:49   #518
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The guy failed to cooperate with them. You can take this on face value as we can't hear what the guards are saying.
Its a load of bull about the window. It doesn't block sound and sure the guy had three other windows to let down.
In this day and age failing to cooperate with the guards while behind the wheel will be meant with force.
Unless you are driving a horse and sulky - then no laws apply
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10-07-2012, 11:56   #519
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The guy failed to cooperate with them. You can take this on face value as we can't hear what the guards are saying.
Its a load of bull about the window. It doesn't block sound and sure the guy had three other windows to let down.
In this day and age failing to cooperate with the guards while behind the wheel will be meant with force.
Unless you are driving a horse and sulky - then no laws apply
Presumably you're talking about the infamous YouTube video? They were prosecuted since, so I'd say the laws still applied to them...
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10-07-2012, 12:12   #520
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Shell to Sea and their ilk perhaps had some merit 7-8 years ago. They are now nothing more than a shower or unwashed flangeartists wasting my taxes and stunting the economic development of Ireland.

On the OP - open the door....clearly a Shell to Sea attempted "setup" like the guy who sunk his own boat.

Last edited by I Heart Internet; 10-07-2012 at 12:15.
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