[Reloc8]

Originally Posted by lynyg18

Just all very frustrating, what are other peoples views and experiences??

The driving test is pretty basic and not a very thorough test process. If you failed it, you have failed it for being unable on the particular occasion of the test to drive to a basic standard of safety over a very, very short period of time.

Your ability to drive to that standard when not being tested is irrelevant.

There is no conspiracy. They are not out to get you.

[mikemac]

Originally Posted by thewelk

And as soon as I was assigned the "examiner that doesn't pass anyone"

I feel your pain

Even if you get an easy tester some of them are grumpy and hungover on Monday mornings and fail everyone
And they pass everyone on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings as they are anxious to get home for Champions league football

However this causes issues as they've used up their quota of passes by Thursday and everyone has to fail on Friday, quota is all gone

[cmos_ajay]

If you fail a driving test in Ireland, then write a complaint letter to :

The complaints officer,
Driving Test Section,
Road Safety Authority,
Moy Valley Business Park,
Ballina, Co. Mayo, Ireland.

On receiving the complaint, the test examiner will have to provide an explanation to his supervisor about the test report. Basically its an internal investigation. If several complaints are received about the same examiner, then there seems to be some problem in his grading procedure. Possibly he may have to undergo training again or maybe given a warning if they find too much failure rate. Guys, be brave to file a complaint if you feel injustice was done. There have been cases in UK where, examiners have been fired for failing too many candidates. Please read

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/ma...ansport.world1

http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/driving-examiner.html

[Chris_Heilong]

The only way to fix the unfair system is to have an independent supervisor who goes trough all your basic training for say 20 lessons, If you have proven you are of a good enough standard you graduate and get handed a license otherwise you must repeat the coarse.

The whole non accountability issue with testers is part of the problem, if there is no communication between tester and leaner then is it any wonder that there is distrust that things are being conducted fairly, also I did a test 3 years ago and can tell you it has gotten much harder in recent times, I almost passed back then and hadn't any idea about correct lanes to be in, what speed to be doing or even checking blind spots. IMO those who have your full licenses a few years and got them on the 1st or 2nd go may have just been lucky.

[Tommie Kelly]

I just passed but I do think that the whole Progress element encourages unsafe driving.
Making people do things as fast as humanly possible, adds more stress and more danger to the road. Fine if you are going stupidly slow, but getting marked down because you don't instantly get to 50kph is, in my opinion, wrong and dangerous.

Just my two cent.

[GFish]

Originally Posted by cmos_ajay

If you fail a driving test in Ireland, then write a complaint letter to :

The complaints officer,
...

Please, please, please don't do that!

Read the examiner's report, pay attention to what he/she says, practice those points and re-take the test. Your time will be much better spent than composing letters of complaint - you will still have to retake the test anyhow!

The last thing any of us need on the road (including you) is people who are bad at driving but good at writing letters of complaint.

Honestly, if you fail the test, it is far more likely that you are not a competent driver than that the tester is not a competent tester.

Just my 2c.

[ferretone]

I really feel we have a whole systems problem going on over here, and that with the learning-to-drive process, rather than the testing one. I know there is now a system of accreditation in place, without which instructors cannot give the required EDT lessons for taking a test - obviously a new development, as is the requirement itself.

However, this in no way compares with rigorous apprenticeship, schooling and testing that instructors have to undergo in Germany, for example. Our young people are simply not being given this standard of instruction to prepare for their tests. Granted some instructors will be excellent, but plenty of weaker ones are without doubt creeping through.

Other issues are, as another poster mentioned, 12 lessons really aren't enough to ensure a wide enough range of situations are met, or that good habits become truly ingrained. Many get away with 12, or with half that in the past, before the requirement, but mainly because we have the insane system of allowing learners to drive with any "qualified driver" for practice to gain experience for it. In other words, we let them muddle through.

This is no way to train young road-users, and I'm pretty sure we wouldn't do it if we could ensure the resources to allow them to test as soon as they were ready, as they do in civilised countries.

Also, no motorway training before qualifying is just stupid. I really thought they would introduce that, once they decided on the mandatory EDT system. In Germany the mandatory hours include a minimum of motorway time, and also a minimum of night driving as well. A test includes some motorway driving, and also a parallel parking, which I just cannot believe doesn't happen in the test here.

Theory testing incorporates mandatory hours in the classroom, which teaches the understanding of many important things about how a car works, of how it behaves on the road in different situations, and very in-depth teaching on how priority works in pretty much every possible situation. All this before a theory test can be taken, although this does not have to be totally completed before the instructor can take a given student out on the road. Again, their high level of training ensures they know at what stage it's safe to start taking a given student out.

All this leads to a much greater understanding of cars, driving and road usage by the time the test is taken, and nobody ever complains/suspects about a lottery system in the testing over there.

I know our legislators bang on about how the German model is not a good one to follow, as their road death stats aren't way ahead of ours, but I have a problem with how they never take the location of a country into account when examining these stats. Germany is bang in the middle of Europe, with everybody's lorry-drivers, holiday-makers, migrants, etc. driving across every day. German drivers can't be held to account for the statistics they generate on the basis of this.

All of their favourite countries for RTAs, road death stats, etc are island or peripheral states, and they never seem to notice this fact. I just wish they would use some common-sense sometimes. *sigh*

[Mister Jingles]

Originally Posted by GFish

Please, please, please don't do that!

Read the examiner's report, pay attention to what he/she says, practice those points and re-take the test. Your time will be much better spent than composing letters of complaint - you will still have to retake the test anyhow!

The last thing any of us need on the road (including you) is people who are bad at driving but good at writing letters of complaint.

Honestly, if you fail the test, it is far more likely that you are not a competent driver than that the tester is not a competent tester.

Just my 2c.

You work for the RSA ?

[Rothmans]

Originally Posted by ferretone

I really feel we have a whole systems problem going on over here, and that with the learning-to-drive process, rather than the testing one. I know there is now a system of accreditation in place, without which instructors cannot give the required EDT lessons for taking a test - obviously a new development, as is the requirement itself.

However, this in no way compares with rigorous apprenticeship, schooling and testing that instructors have to undergo in Germany, for example. Our young people are simply not being given this standard of instruction to prepare for their tests. Granted some instructors will be excellent, but plenty of weaker ones are without doubt creeping through.

Other issues are, as another poster mentioned, 12 lessons really aren't enough to ensure a wide enough range of situations are met, or that good habits become truly ingrained. Many get away with 12, or with half that in the past, before the requirement, but mainly because we have the insane system of allowing learners to drive with any "qualified driver" for practice to gain experience for it. In other words, we let them muddle through.

This is no way to train young road-users, and I'm pretty sure we wouldn't do it if we could ensure the resources to allow them to test as soon as they were ready, as they do in civilised countries.

Also, no motorway training before qualifying is just stupid. I really thought they would introduce that, once they decided on the mandatory EDT system. In Germany the mandatory hours include a minimum of motorway time, and also a minimum of night driving as well. A test includes some motorway driving, and also a parallel parking, which I just cannot believe doesn't happen in the test here.

Theory testing incorporates mandatory hours in the classroom, which teaches the understanding of many important things about how a car works, of how it behaves on the road in different situations, and very in-depth teaching on how priority works in pretty much every possible situation. All this before a theory test can be taken, although this does not have to be totally completed before the instructor can take a given student out on the road. Again, their high level of training ensures they know at what stage it's safe to start taking a given student out.

All this leads to a much greater understanding of cars, driving and road usage by the time the test is taken, and nobody ever complains/suspects about a lottery system in the testing over there.

I know our legislators bang on about how the German model is not a good one to follow, as their road death stats aren't way ahead of ours, but I have a problem with how they never take the location of a country into account when examining these stats. Germany is bang in the middle of Europe, with everybody's lorry-drivers, holiday-makers, migrants, etc. driving across every day. German drivers can't be held to account for the statistics they generate on the basis of this.

All of their favourite countries for RTAs, road death stats, etc are island or peripheral states, and they never seem to notice this fact. I just wish they would use some common-sense sometimes. *sigh*

I'm sick of all this bullsh!t that so many people come out with about the Irish system.
You praise the German system and how burdensome, therefore how great it is, but you look at the facts, and they tell a completely different story.
Even per capita, road fatalities on the continent are far higher than in the UK and Ireland. In June I read in the Kildare Nationalist that, in my own county, with a population of 210,000 people, with the M7, M8 and M9s trraffic (ie the busiest roads) passing through it, that only one person had died so far this year which reflects the comparatively low road deaths Ireland has.
Our annual road deaths are no greater than they typically were in the 1960s, when there were a lot less cars on the road.

On top of this, we have the sh!ttiest roads in Europe, yet our road fatalities are much less. This is clearly indicative of us being better drivers, No?
Look, here's some more evidence that we do in fact have the safest drivers in Europe.

http://www.insuranceage.co.uk/insura...est-europe-axa

That was Nov 2009, our roads have only gotten safer since then.

If you've ever been to any continental countries and saw how inconsiderate and dangerous most of the drivers were over there, you'd soon be quite appreciative of the safety with which Irish drivers drive and the decency and respect they show to other road users.

[ferretone]

As stated, German drivers have to contend with those from all over Europe on a daily basis. What happens on this island or the neighbouring one is not comparing like with like. Even if you are looking at the crashes the natives themselves have, there is definitely an element of how many foreign drivers they are dealing with day-to-day in that. And also the high population density anyway.

And I have long experience with continental roads, and have not experienced anything like what you suggest, Rothmans.

I wonder if you accounted for differing laws in your observations? Such as much higher prevalence of right-priority, including on all Dutch roundabouts, despite the fact they drive on the right - yes that's a mad way to run roundabouts, but if you ignore it, it's still you being disrespectful!

You surely can't deny drivers on the continent have a far better knowledge of motorway usage, at least. I certainly haven't observed the level of ignorance of Irish drivers anywhere else I've been except South Africa, where the low density of cars means they can get away with that.

[GFish]

Originally Posted by Mister Jingles

You work for the RSA ?

No, but I do drive so I care about who I share the road with.

To advocate complaining about the tester just because you fail a test is illogical, shortsighted, vindictive and irresponsible.

[Rothmans]

Originally Posted by ferretone

As stated, German drivers have to contend with those from all over Europe on a daily basis. What happens on this island or the neighbouring one is not comparing like with like. Even if you are looking at the crashes the natives themselves have, there is definitely an element of how many foreign drivers they are dealing with day-to-day in that. And also the high population density anyway.

And I have long experience with continental roads, and have not experienced anything like what you suggest, Rothmans.

I wonder if you accounted for differing laws in your observations? Such as much higher prevalence of right-priority, including on all Dutch roundabouts, despite the fact they drive on the right - yes that's a mad way to run roundabouts, but if you ignore it, it's still you being disrespectful!

You surely can't deny drivers on the continent have a far better knowledge of motorway usage, at least. I certainly haven't observed the level of ignorance of Irish drivers anywhere else I've been except South Africa, where the low density of cars means they can get away with that.

Well, that's your opinion, and your opinion contradicts the facts. I don't really buy the 'blame it on the foreigners' line at all. The same effect can be observed in Ireland with Northern Irish drivers driving on our roads if that's the argument you want to make.
Besides, it doesn't matter on the nationalities of the drivers anyway, its the driving safety in Germany which should be the concern.

Also, that roundabout rule in the Netherlands seems peculiar, so does it mean traffic already on the roundabout has to stop and give way to traffic entering the roundabout?

[Mister Jingles]

Originally Posted by GFish

No, but I do drive so I care about who I share the road with.

To advocate complaining about the tester just because you fail a test is illogical, shortsighted, vindictive and irresponsible.

Whats that got to do with somebody who feels they have been failed unfairly though ? And it does happen a lot. Look at the unsuccessful thread and the fail rates in certain test centres around the country.

I'm repeating myself here again on this forum but the test needs a complete overhaul as does how driving is taught.

And fair enough as much as €85 is a rip off its not going to change, I've even heard that it could possibly become even more dearer sometime in the future but like with the NCT for those who don't pass first time it should be cheaper to do it again. It would probably encourage more drivers to sit their test and not stay on their permit too long.

Not 3/4 years ago I believe the test was only €35 to sit, then €55 and now €85. Why the massive increase (not directed at you GFish) ?

[Mister Jingles]

Originally Posted by Rothmans

Also, that roundabout rule in the Netherlands seems peculiar, so does it mean traffic already on the roundabout has to stop and give way to traffic entering the roundabout?

If that's true then wow. Roundabouts do work well but only when people use them correctly, the amount of people who do not know how to use indicators on them is unreal and others who don't know what lane there meant to be in is another big issue that does cause accidents, most of these been full licensed drivers of course.

[GFish]

Originally Posted by Mister Jingles

Whats that got to do with somebody who feels they have been failed unfairly through ?

Nothing at all.
The post I replied to (#18 above) did not specify being failed unfairly.
It said:

Originally Posted by cmos_ajay

If you fail a driving test in Ireland, then write a complaint letter to :

The complaints officer,
...

That advice is what I object to and called illogical, shortsighted, vindictive and irresponsible while you endorse it.