[Burt Lancaster]

Hi all, I've come across the following passages in the Quran that appear to inconsistent or a contradiction ?

What are the Muslim explanations for each of these ?

2:23.If you have doubts about our revelations to our servant (Mohammad) call on your martyrs (Shohadaikum).
- Should it be call on your partners (Shorakaikum) as no one would call on the dead people to witness anything ?

86:7 human sperms originate from between the back and the ribs
- Yet we know sperms originate from the testicles ?

4: 78, 79. Verse 78 says that all actions good or evil come from God while the verse 79 says that good comes from God while evil comes from humans ?

37:139-145 Jona ( Younis) was ejected from the belly of the whale, while in 68:48-49 Jona was not ejected. Which is it ejected or not ejected ?

2:6-7 God blinded the unbelievers as he closed their hearts, their vision and their hearing. Why would God, who wanted everyone to believe, do that ?

2:10 The kuffars are sick in their hearts and God increased their sickness.
- Is that logical that God would increase their sickness instead of healing them ?

2: 264 God does not guide the Kuffars.
- But why ? who needs guidance the believer or the unbeliever?

4:88 Do you want to guide those that God had misled?
- Why would the all loving God mislead his own creatures?

6:149 If God wished He would have guided all of you.
- It seems God did not wish to guide all, why he did not want everyone to believe ?

13: 33 If God misleads his creature no one can guide them.
- Why would the most merciful mislead his creatures, and also not want anyone else to guide them. ?

14:4 God misleads whoever He wants and guide whoever he wants.
- Is God selective in guidance?

91:8 God inspires humans their good and evil.
- If God, in His unlimited capability, inspires good and evil for all beings, have we any other alternative when God has already inspired it ?
- Does Repentance means anything when such a decision of God has already been made ?

18:83-86 Zu-El Qarnin found out that the sun sets in a hole of murky water. How does the sun which is so much larger than the earth set in a murky hole on the same earth ?

Such a statement is attributed not only to Zu-Al Qarnin, in holy hadeeth Mohammad (PBUH) also confirmsmthe setting of the sun in a hole of murky water to Abu-Darr ?

23:12-14 in Quranic embryology a stage is reached when it becomes bones then the bones are dressed with flesh.
- Yet in the womb, flesh and bones are developed simultaneously ?

17:1 Mohammad visited Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa.
- Yet there was no Masjid Al-Aqsa nor any other masjid during the life of Mohammad.
Islam entered Palestine after Omar Bin El Khattab conquered Palestine after the death of the prophet. Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa was built almost sixty years after the death of Mohammad by Marwan bin Abdelmalik ?

23:14 blessed Allah the best of all creators.
- How many creators do we have?

88: 20 The earth has been flattened.
- Is this not a contradiction to science ?

5: 73 He blasphemes who says that God is one of three gods.
- Yet Christianity does not claim that there are three gods.
Why does Mohammad (PBUH) seem confused about the trinity belief which describes God as one, with three different personalities ?

31:10 God created the heavens and supported them with invisible pillars.
- What are these invisable pillars and where are they ?

71:15-16 God created the seven stories heavens and made the moon as a source of light in these heavens.
- Yet the moon is not a source of light, it merely reflects sunlight ?

[hivizman]

Originally Posted by Burt Lancaster

Hi all, I've come across the following passages in the Quran that appear to inconsistent or a contradiction ?

This is a popular list that appears several times on the internet, including here ("Muslim's (sic) your magic book has flaws too?").

As I'm currently on holiday and away from my books on Islam, I can't deal with each of the alleged inconsistencies, but several cases look like translation issues. For example, the word in surat al-Baqarah 2:23 that has been translated above as "martyrs" is almost invariably translated in recognised translations (e.g. Sahih International, Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Arberry) as "witnesses" - interestingly, the Greek root of the English word "martyr" normally means "witness".

[hivizman]

Originally Posted by Burt Lancaster

17:1 Mohammad visited Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa.
- Yet there was no Masjid Al-Aqsa nor any other masjid during the life of Mohammad.
Islam entered Palestine after Omar Bin El Khattab conquered Palestine after the death of the prophet. Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa was built almost sixty years after the death of Mohammad by Marwan bin Abdelmalik ?

A "masjid" is literally a "place of sujud (prostration)", that is, a place of worship. Muslims believe that Islam has been the true religion, constituted by the worship of Allah as the one and only God, since the creation of the world. Hence, the Temple Mount in Jerusalem has been a "masjid" since long before the lifetime of Muhammad. The "masjid al-aqsa", or furthest mosque, has traditionally been associated with the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, and is recognised as the place to which Muhammad was transported during his "'Isra", or Night Journey, and from which he made his "Mi'raj", or Ascension.

So this is another example where there is no inconsistency, only simplistic misinterpretation.

[Burt Lancaster]

Thanks for that, any joy with the rest of them ?

[deravarra]

Originally Posted by hivizman

As I'm currently on holiday and away from my books on Islam, I can't deal with each of the alleged inconsistencies

As he's said - he is away on holiday. I'm sure he will answer when he's back

[hivizman]

Originally Posted by Burt Lancaster

5: 73 He blasphemes who says that God is one of three gods.
- Yet Christianity does not claim that there are three gods.
Why does Mohammad (PBUH) seem confused about the trinity belief which describes God as one, with three different personalities ?

This is another verse that appears to be mistranslated. The Sahih International translation, which is very close to a literal rendering of the original Arabic, reads: "They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment."

Yusuf Ali translates the beginning of the verse as: "They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity", but this misrepresents things, as the term "trinity" does not appear as such in the verse.

It is fair to say that Muslims find the concept of the Trinity incoherent and incomprehensible. The idea of God having one substance but three persons simply makes no sense. Muslim apologists often claim that there is no serious biblical authority for the doctrine of the Trinity, and see the doctrine as a later development that has no basis in the teachings of Jesus as reported in the gospels.

However, some critics have noted another verse in Surat al-Maidah, 5:116, which reads, in the Sahih International translation: "And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen."

This may suggest that the perception at the time of the revelation of the Qur'an was that Christians worshipped a "trinity" of God the Father, Mary the Mother and Jesus the Son.

The other verse in the Qur'an to raise the issue of the Trinity is Surat an-Nisaa 4:171. Again using the Sahih International translation, this reads: "O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs." Yusuf Ali again goes further, translating the Arabic word thalaathatun as "Trinity", where most other translators render the word as "three".

[Burt Lancaster]

Originally Posted by hivizman

This is another verse that appears to be mistranslated. The Sahih International translation, which is very close to a literal rendering of the original Arabic, reads: "They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment."

"They have certainly disbelieved who say, Allah is the third of three."

If that's the case, that's my very point, how did the Qur'an get this wrong ?

Christians believe no such thing. Christians do not believe 'Allah is 'third of three'. Christians believe Allah is ONE, and consists of three persons in the ONE, the father, the son, and the holy spirit. There is a very big difference. No Christian believes "Allah is the third of three"

This may suggest that the perception at the time of the revelation of the Qur'an was that Christians worshipped a "trinity" of God the Father, Mary the Mother and Jesus the Son.

But Christians of the time clearly did not. So how did the Qur'an get this perception wrong as well ?

[The_horror]

Burt Lancaster, It depends upon your theory, if you are Muslim then offcourse these aren't contradiction if you are christian then offcourse these are contradiction.

[Burt Lancaster]

Originally Posted by The_horror

Burt Lancaster, It depends upon your theory, if you are Muslim then offcourse these aren't contradiction if you are christian then offcourse these are contradiction.

Not really, the Qur'an prides itself on being the inerrant extremely accurate word perfect arabic word of Allah, dictated directly word for word to Mohammed (PBUH) by the angel Gabriel.

[deravarra]

Originally Posted by Burt Lancaster

Not really, the Qur'an prides itself on being the inerrant extremely accurate word perfect arabic word of Allah, dictated directly word for word to Mohammed (PBUH) by the angel Gabriel.

You've just agreed with the point he was making.

Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the inerrant and extremely accurate word of Allah (SWT).

Christians and other religions don't believe it.

[Burt Lancaster]

Originally Posted by deravarra

You've just agreed with the point he was making.

Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the inerrant and extremely accurate word of Allah (SWT).

No, if you read through the thread, in contrary to what the Qur'an claims, you'll see the Qur'an has quite a few mistakes in it, that can only be explained by sophistry, and The Qur'an makes far higher claims regarding word for word accuracy than the bible does.

Originally Posted by deravarra

Christians and other religions don't believe it.

They'd hardly be Christians, atheists etc. if they did.
As much as I like to debate Christianity as well, its a strawman tangent, as this thread is about the Qur'an, and we're in the Islam forum.

[Carlos the Jackal]

2:23.If you have doubts about our revelations to our servant (Mohammad) call on your martyrs (Shohadaikum).
- Should it be call on your partners (Shorakaikum) as no one would call on the dead people to witness anything ?

thats a false quote, Qur'an 2:23 actually says;

"And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful."

86:7 human sperms originate from between the back and the ribs
- Yet we know sperms originate from the testicles ?

Its a translation issue, dealt with in detail here

http://yahyasnow.wordpress.com/2009/...en-production/

4: 78, 79. Verse 78 says that all actions good or evil come from God while the verse 79 says that good comes from God while evil comes from humans ?

First, it is mentioned that all things are from Allah; and then it is stated that good happenings come from Allah and evil happenings come from humans.
If we look for the correct interpretation of the verses above, we can see that there is no contradiction there. In fact, God Almighty is the ultimate source of all that is happening.

Consequently, all good that comes to man and all evil that befalls him flow originally from Allah's will: that is, everything is from Allah. And when man uses his freewill and makes a wrong choice out of several available options, evil follows. And we should remember that evil is the absence of good; or its opposite that follows a wrong choice by man. Thus it is true that evil happenings come from man.

It is also possible that what appears to be evil may very well turn out to be good in the end. In such cases evil is no more than a means of spiritual growth for man, and need not necessarily be "evil" in reality.

2:6-7 God blinded the unbelievers as he closed their hearts, their vision and their hearing. Why would God, who wanted everyone to believe, do that ?

thats neither inconsistant nor a contradiction.


2:10 The kuffars are sick in their hearts and God increased their sickness.
- Is that logical that God would increase their sickness instead of healing them ?

2: 264 God does not guide the Kuffars.
- But why ? who needs guidance the believer or the unbeliever?

4:88 Do you want to guide those that God had misled?
- Why would the all loving God mislead his own creatures?

6:149 If God wished He would have guided all of you.
- It seems God did not wish to guide all, why he did not want everyone to believe ?

13: 33 If God misleads his creature no one can guide them.
- Why would the most merciful mislead his creatures, and also not want anyone else to guide them. ?

14:4 God misleads whoever He wants and guide whoever he wants.
- Is God selective in guidance?

91:8 God inspires humans their good and evil.
- If God, in His unlimited capability, inspires good and evil for all beings, have we any other alternative when God has already inspired it ?
- Does Repentance means anything when such a decision of God has already been made?


again, none of those are contradictions or inconsistencies. If you want to understand them read up on them and ask authoritative sources such as scholars.

18:83-86 Zu-El Qarnin found out that the sun sets in a hole of murky water. How does the sun which is so much larger than the earth set in a murky hole on the same earth ?
its a figure of speach. dhul qarnayn seen the sun set in a pool of water. for example 'I was out walking yesterday evening and I seen the sun set in the lake.' It didnt literally set in the lake.

23:12-14 in Quranic embryology a stage is reached when it becomes bones then the bones are dressed with flesh.
- Yet in the womb, flesh and bones are developed simultaneously ?

http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/researc...-in-the-quran/

17:1 Mohammad visited Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa.
- Yet there was no Masjid Al-Aqsa nor any other masjid during the life of Mohammad.
Islam entered Palestine after Omar Bin El Khattab conquered Palestine after the death of the prophet. Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa was built almost sixty years after the death of Mohammad by Marwan bin Abdelmalik ?

hivizman has already addressed this in post #3.

23:14 blessed Allah the best of all creators.
- How many creators do we have?

Humans can create things can they not?

88: 20 The earth has been flattened.
- Is this not a contradiction to science ?

Again the verse does not say that, it says spread out/made into a vast expanse

5: 73 He blasphemes who says that God is one of three gods.
- Yet Christianity does not claim that there are three gods.

AGAIN the verse does not say that. it says "They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah."

31:10 God created the heavens and supported them with invisible pillars.
- What are these invisable pillars and where are they ?

Again, a non argument that doesn't deserve an answer.

71:15-16 God created the seven stories heavens and made the moon as a source of light in these heavens.
- Yet the moon is not a source of light, it merely reflects sunlight ?

the saheeh international translation says:

"And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?"





So basically you listed a number of badly translated quotes, a few utterly false quotes, some non arguments and a lot of questions that can be answered by thinking about it for two minutes.

I recommend you actually read the Qur'an. You can do so here for free:

http://quran.com/

the Yusuf Ali or pickthall translation are the best.

[Burt Lancaster]

^^ Nah, somehow I don't think I'll be believing the religious word of someone that uses a murdering terrorist's name for their username.

[Frank Grimes]

Originally Posted by Burt Lancaster

^^ Nah, somehow I don't think I'll be believing the religious word of someone that uses a murdering terrorist's name for their username.

Considering you've described any attempts to explain what you view as inconsistencies as "sophistry" does it really matter what his username is? I took a look my own copy of Muhammad Asad's translation in relation to some of the verses that list has mistranslated/misrepresented, here are his for comparison:

2:23 - the relevant part is translated as "...and call upon any other than God to bear witness for you"

88:20 - "And at the earth, how it is spread out"

71:15/16 - "Do you not see how God has created seven heavens in full harmony with one another, and has set up within them the moon as a light [reflected], and set up the sun as a [radiant] lamp?"

Re. the words in parentheses; he states in a footnote to another ayat where these words are used (10:5) that while diya and nur are often used interchangeably to denote 'light' diya is "used to describe a light which subsists by itself, as that of the sun and fire - that is, a source of light-while nur signifies a light by subsists by some other thing...in other words, light due to an extraneous source, or-as in the case of the moon-reflected light"

These lists that do the rounds tend to mistranslate, misrepresent, and take out of context quotes to suit their agenda. Regardless of your position on the Qur'an (and Islam more generally); the only way to understand what it says is to actually read it, especially one with a good commentary and also read a biography of Muhammad (one not written by the likes of Robert Spencer) to contextualise the what you are reading in it. The Message of the Qur'an by Muhammad Asad is a good example of the former, and Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources by Martin Lings is one of the latter.

[Burt Lancaster]

So Frank are you a Muslim and if not why not ?