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Vivara · 19-06-2012, 01:33

Hi guys,

Any advice and opinions are greatly appreciated.

I played cello through the Suzuki method from the age of about eight until eleven, and completed the preliminary, grade one and grade two levels with great success. I flew through the Suzuki books and was on Suzuki book four by the time I gave it up for a year due to family circumstances.

I then went back to the cello for two years until I was fourteen and completed grade three to an OK standard, but nothing fantastic. My interest and playing standard were definitely not as good as before. I gave up the cello because I wasn't interested anymore. I had lost the spark of when I was playing the first time.

Anyway, fast forward another two years and I took it up for six months to basically practice for the practical element of a music exam in my country's exam system. (So while I was playing, I wasn't learning anything particularly new or advancing through the grade system.)

And then a few month's later I took it up on a recreational basis with a cello teacher for a year, without doing anything in the grade system, yet I was doing pieces I enjoyed like the Prelude from Bach's Suite No. 1, and to a reasonable standard at that.

So here I am a year later at seventeen, and I really regret giving up the cello the very first time. I'd love to join my local youth symphony orchestra and would love to go back to the cello, and properly at that.

Is it too late to get really good at the cello? How fast can I move up along the grades or do they have to be done a year at a time? Could I do grade five instead of doing grade four or would I be wasting my time? Like could I do the grade four stuff with a teacher and then move onto grade five within the one year?

And what is the typical standard for youth symphony orchestras in small cities? What grade level?

I'd be really grateful for any help and encouragement from cellists, teachers and the like with this!

Thanks.

funky penguin · 19-06-2012, 07:45

It's a cliche I know, but I firmly believe that you're never too young.

I started piano when I was 20 (all I had done before was mess around on drums), after two years I was studying music in Maynooth. Finished my degree top of my class, got a scolarship to do an MA.

I mainly focused on composition, but the point remains.

An even better example, and faaaaaaar more relevant to your situation is my younger brother (a cellist), who happened to study the same course as me (same year too!). He's on boards, so I'll PM him and ask him to reply here with his story. I think you'll like it!

BigStupidGuy · 19-06-2012, 11:09

Hi!

You know reading your story I wished I was in as good a position as you to study the cello. I only started when I was 19/20 years old.

For the first year I studied engineering in college and when I came home at weekends I went to a cello lesson and practised for 2-3 days more or less, before going back to dublin for college etc where I couldn't bring something as delicate as a cello

But by the end of the year (because I played guitar in bands for years) I was able to progress quick enough and got a distinction in my grade 4 ABRSM. So I quit the course and went to study music at NUIM because it was the only place that would accept a grade 4 cello player

But after 2 years there my teacher advised me to audition at the RIAM for lessons, I went in and played the prelude for bach's 3rd suite and the first movement from George Crumb's solo cello sonata. I think the crumb piece helped me a lot to impress because it's so unusual and interesting. The professor of cello there who was auditioning me was really interested when he saw that I'd only been playing for 2 and a half years, actually he used the word "amazing" when talking about it!

So that summer I got really good news when I was told I was accepted by that guy (William Butt) as a student of his. I also got the results of my grade 8 which I did secretly behind my teacher's back for the fun (but also because I think grades are stupid and I didn't want to make a big deal out of it)..... but after having taught myself the syllabus etc I managed to get a distinction again!

So now fast forward 3 years and here I am, waiting to do the final year of my MA in cello performance and musicology at NUIM. After I finish next year I think I'll finally leave my teacher at the academy and try to go abroad to do a Phd in America of Germany somewhere, just because 4 years is long enough with any teacher, even one as inspiring as him.

I have no problem writing a long story like this because one of the main reasons I keep going is because I really want to inspire people to follow their passions and loves, and not to be too concerned with age etc, it doesn't matter what age you are, only how much you are willing to work at it. Honestly it takes around 5-10,000 hours of quality practice to become pro, and at what stage of your life you do this should be up to you and not society, good luck! Any questions etc please ask...

PS. If you'd like to come to my recital next year I'll be playing at NUIM early June next year, or possibly this coming October too, (but only for 10-15 mins in October).

funky penguin · 19-06-2012, 11:31

You might have mentioned the bit where you were playing for a good 5-8 hours a day in 3rd year too!

It takes a lot of dedication! But that's one thing that age has no effect on. Best of luck! (and thanks for replying BigStupidGuy!)

**bluewolf** · 19-06-2012, 11:34

Age doesn't matter; if you are interested in the music and use your brain you will progress quickly. And practice, practice, practice. I took a year off before my LC before which I was just adequate at it - when I came back, I had a lot more interest, I worked hard, and my teacher was quite taken aback. He was pretty disappointed when I didn't want to do music in college

Did I mention practice?

BigStupidGuy · 19-06-2012, 14:27

In all honesty I never really have practiced that much. These days at the most 5 hours, but sometimes as little as 2.

**bluewolf** · 19-06-2012, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigStupidGuy

In all honesty I never really have practiced that much. These days at the most 5 hours, but sometimes as little as 2.

That's little enough for full time, but I don't think OP wants to go full time

JustAThought · 19-06-2012, 14:38

These are really impressive stories!! And a lot of practice going on!!! It sounds like you are semi-pros or interest in doing it ALS a career: amazing stuff!!!
For the other " little guys" out there ; I'd always been interested in the cello somehow from a teenager but with the exams there was no way I was going to be able ( I thought) to take it up!
Fast forward many years & I got a big surprise bonus from work & decided to be a bit impulsive & buy a cello! Far too old to take it up; but sure I decided I'd never have that kind of free cash so easily again so I did it!

& ( long story!) found a great teacher in Clontarf & am on my way.
I'm officially broke now so have had to out the classes to one side but I figure it's a lifong project & so long as I enjoy it & put in a bit of practice I will have it forever : )

Go follow your dreams : )

bTW. As a beginner adult I found it tricky to find a teacher. Mine is fabulous but when I get a job again I will have to find a different one as mine used not take students late in the evenings after work ( I needed a 7pm slot ). Maria in Clontarf is a fantastic teacher. I also used the music school in dunlaoghaire but the traffic & parking ( eek with a cello in the rain!) was a bit of a nightmare. How did ye find good teachers & can you advise please!!?

Thanks!!

**bluewolf** · 19-06-2012, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAThought

These are really impressive stories!! And a lot of practice going on!!! It sounds like you are semi-pros or interest in doing it ALS a career: amazing stuff!!!
For the other " little guys" out there ; I'd always been interested in the cello somehow from a teenager but with the exams there was no way I was going to be able ( I thought) to take it up!
Fast forward many years & I got a big surprise bonus from work & decided to be a bit impulsive & buy a cello! Far too old to take it up; but sure I decided I'd never have that kind of free cash so easily again so I did it!

& ( long story!) found a great teacher in Clontarf & am on my way.
I'm officially broke now so have had to out the classes to one side but I figure it's a lifong project & so long as I enjoy it & put in a bit of practice I will have it forever : )

Go follow your dreams : )

bTW. As a beginner adult I found it tricky to find a teacher. Mine is fabulous but when I get a job again I will have to find a different one as mine used not take students late in the evenings after work ( I needed a 7pm slot ). Maria in Clontarf is a fantastic teacher. I also used the music school in dunlaoghaire but the traffic & parking ( eek with a cello in the rain!) was a bit of a nightmare. How did ye find good teachers & can you advise please!!?

Thanks!!

I had josef calef in DIT since I was 7, he's absolutely brilliant... that was luck

after my last gap of a few years I've gone to another music school, and it's probably best to get other teaching styles and so on
she's not bad at all, even if we disagree on how great sonatas are...

I guess I emphasise practice as I should be doing minimum 1-2 a day but I'm lucky to fit that in a week, and it makes progress excruciatingly slow

Vivara · 19-06-2012, 23:45

Wow, thanks guys for the reply. I just noticed the silly reference to "my country's exam system" in my OP... that was because I posted this on another worldwide forum before I realised that boards would be the best place for it. So obviously I meant the Junior Cert.

Thank you all for your replies.

What you've all said is what I've suspected, but I just wanted to hear some of the opinions from other musical people. I've heard that 'too late' thing spouted by those steeped in music too many times. But as someone else said, I've already "started" so it would be wrong to think that I'm starting from scratch.

I don't think I'm interested in going professional with this, but I would love for it to become a serious hobby for the rest of my life. And I would like to get to a level where I can pick up any piece and be able to make sense of it without wrecking my head.

For instance, the Cork Symphony Orchestra is an amateur orchestra as far as I know, and I'd love to join that once I get to the required level (which is grade eight I presume?).

I would love to join Cork Youth Orchestra, where while they don't have a required standard, the minimum is grade four. But auditions have already passed for the coming year and anyway this coming year is my Leaving Cert. year, so I think I'll have passed the "youth" part soon enough and will probably be one of the oldest there.

I have done up to grade three in CIT (Cork School of Music). What do you think of just skipping ahead and doing grade five? I looked at the ABRSM Syllabus and I don't think it looks beyond me to be honest. In fact one of the pieces I already know like the back of my hand: Boccherini Minuet. I actually played this when I was nine and know it all off by heart.

What grade would the Prelude to Bach's Suite No. 1 be? I also know the Gigue from that suite and had no problems with them.

Again, thanks everyone for your opinions and encouragement!

BigStupidGuy · 20-06-2012, 02:09

That prelude is grade 8 ABRSM.... and senior cert RIAM, but all bach is difficult.

**bluewolf** · 20-06-2012, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigStupidGuy

That prelude is grade 8 ABRSM.... and senior cert RIAM, but all bach is difficult.

prelude 1 grade 8? no way?
*goes to check syllabus*
jaysus, so it is
i did courante 3 for grade 7 i think, that might be a good start for OP, but not for another year or so

19-06-2012, 01:33	#1
Vivara Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 266 Adverts \| Friends	At what age is it too late to get really good at the cello? Hi guys, Any advice and opinions are greatly appreciated. I played cello through the Suzuki method from the age of about eight until eleven, and completed the preliminary, grade one and grade two levels with great success. I flew through the Suzuki books and was on Suzuki book four by the time I gave it up for a year due to family circumstances. I then went back to the cello for two years until I was fourteen and completed grade three to an OK standard, but nothing fantastic. My interest and playing standard were definitely not as good as before. I gave up the cello because I wasn't interested anymore. I had lost the spark of when I was playing the first time. Anyway, fast forward another two years and I took it up for six months to basically practice for the practical element of a music exam in my country's exam system. (So while I was playing, I wasn't learning anything particularly new or advancing through the grade system.) And then a few month's later I took it up on a recreational basis with a cello teacher for a year, without doing anything in the grade system, yet I was doing pieces I enjoyed like the Prelude from Bach's Suite No. 1, and to a reasonable standard at that. So here I am a year later at seventeen, and I really regret giving up the cello the very first time. I'd love to join my local youth symphony orchestra and would love to go back to the cello, and properly at that. Is it too late to get really good at the cello? How fast can I move up along the grades or do they have to be done a year at a time? Could I do grade five instead of doing grade four or would I be wasting my time? Like could I do the grade four stuff with a teacher and then move onto grade five within the one year? And what is the typical standard for youth symphony orchestras in small cities? What grade level? I'd be really grateful for any help and encouragement from cellists, teachers and the like with this! Thanks.

19-06-2012, 11:34	#5
bluewolf Moderator Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 41,212 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Libertaire, Personal Issues, Politics, Separation and Divorce	Age doesn't matter; if you are interested in the music and use your brain you will progress quickly. And practice, practice, practice. I took a year off before my LC before which I was just adequate at it - when I came back, I had a lot more interest, I worked hard, and my teacher was quite taken aback. He was pretty disappointed when I didn't want to do music in college Did I mention practice? Last edited by bluewolf; 19-06-2012 at 11:36.

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19-06-2012, 07:45	#2
funky penguin Closed Account Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 5,739 Adverts \| Friends	It's a cliche I know, but I firmly believe that you're never too young. I started piano when I was 20 (all I had done before was mess around on drums), after two years I was studying music in Maynooth. Finished my degree top of my class, got a scolarship to do an MA. I mainly focused on composition, but the point remains. An even better example, and faaaaaaar more relevant to your situation is my younger brother (a cellist), who happened to study the same course as me (same year too!). He's on boards, so I'll PM him and ask him to reply here with his story. I think you'll like it!

19-06-2012, 11:09	#3
BigStupidGuy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 376 Adverts \| Friends	Hi! You know reading your story I wished I was in as good a position as you to study the cello. I only started when I was 19/20 years old. For the first year I studied engineering in college and when I came home at weekends I went to a cello lesson and practised for 2-3 days more or less, before going back to dublin for college etc where I couldn't bring something as delicate as a cello But by the end of the year (because I played guitar in bands for years) I was able to progress quick enough and got a distinction in my grade 4 ABRSM. So I quit the course and went to study music at NUIM because it was the only place that would accept a grade 4 cello player But after 2 years there my teacher advised me to audition at the RIAM for lessons, I went in and played the prelude for bach's 3rd suite and the first movement from George Crumb's solo cello sonata. I think the crumb piece helped me a lot to impress because it's so unusual and interesting. The professor of cello there who was auditioning me was really interested when he saw that I'd only been playing for 2 and a half years, actually he used the word "amazing" when talking about it! So that summer I got really good news when I was told I was accepted by that guy (William Butt) as a student of his. I also got the results of my grade 8 which I did secretly behind my teacher's back for the fun (but also because I think grades are stupid and I didn't want to make a big deal out of it)..... but after having taught myself the syllabus etc I managed to get a distinction again! So now fast forward 3 years and here I am, waiting to do the final year of my MA in cello performance and musicology at NUIM. After I finish next year I think I'll finally leave my teacher at the academy and try to go abroad to do a Phd in America of Germany somewhere, just because 4 years is long enough with any teacher, even one as inspiring as him. I have no problem writing a long story like this because one of the main reasons I keep going is because I really want to inspire people to follow their passions and loves, and not to be too concerned with age etc, it doesn't matter what age you are, only how much you are willing to work at it. Honestly it takes around 5-10,000 hours of quality practice to become pro, and at what stage of your life you do this should be up to you and not society, good luck! Any questions etc please ask... PS. If you'd like to come to my recital next year I'll be playing at NUIM early June next year, or possibly this coming October too, (but only for 10-15 mins in October).

19-06-2012, 11:31	#4
funky penguin Closed Account Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 5,739 Adverts \| Friends	You might have mentioned the bit where you were playing for a good 5-8 hours a day in 3rd year too! It takes a lot of dedication! But that's one thing that age has no effect on. Best of luck! (and thanks for replying BigStupidGuy!)

19-06-2012, 14:27	#6
BigStupidGuy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 376 Adverts \| Friends	In all honesty I never really have practiced that much. These days at the most 5 hours, but sometimes as little as 2.

19-06-2012, 14:38	#8
JustAThought Registered User Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,221 Adverts \| Friends	These are really impressive stories!! And a lot of practice going on!!! It sounds like you are semi-pros or interest in doing it ALS a career: amazing stuff!!! For the other " little guys" out there ; I'd always been interested in the cello somehow from a teenager but with the exams there was no way I was going to be able ( I thought) to take it up! Fast forward many years & I got a big surprise bonus from work & decided to be a bit impulsive & buy a cello! Far too old to take it up; but sure I decided I'd never have that kind of free cash so easily again so I did it! & ( long story!) found a great teacher in Clontarf & am on my way. I'm officially broke now so have had to out the classes to one side but I figure it's a lifong project & so long as I enjoy it & put in a bit of practice I will have it forever : ) Go follow your dreams : ) bTW. As a beginner adult I found it tricky to find a teacher. Mine is fabulous but when I get a job again I will have to find a different one as mine used not take students late in the evenings after work ( I needed a 7pm slot ). Maria in Clontarf is a fantastic teacher. I also used the music school in dunlaoghaire but the traffic & parking ( eek with a cello in the rain!) was a bit of a nightmare. How did ye find good teachers & can you advise please!!? Thanks!!

19-06-2012, 23:45	#10
Vivara Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 266 Adverts \| Friends	Wow, thanks guys for the reply. I just noticed the silly reference to "my country's exam system" in my OP... that was because I posted this on another worldwide forum before I realised that boards would be the best place for it. So obviously I meant the Junior Cert. Thank you all for your replies. What you've all said is what I've suspected, but I just wanted to hear some of the opinions from other musical people. I've heard that 'too late' thing spouted by those steeped in music too many times. But as someone else said, I've already "started" so it would be wrong to think that I'm starting from scratch. I don't think I'm interested in going professional with this, but I would love for it to become a serious hobby for the rest of my life. And I would like to get to a level where I can pick up any piece and be able to make sense of it without wrecking my head. For instance, the Cork Symphony Orchestra is an amateur orchestra as far as I know, and I'd love to join that once I get to the required level (which is grade eight I presume?). I would love to join Cork Youth Orchestra, where while they don't have a required standard, the minimum is grade four. But auditions have already passed for the coming year and anyway this coming year is my Leaving Cert. year, so I think I'll have passed the "youth" part soon enough and will probably be one of the oldest there. I have done up to grade three in CIT (Cork School of Music). What do you think of just skipping ahead and doing grade five? I looked at the ABRSM Syllabus and I don't think it looks beyond me to be honest. In fact one of the pieces I already know like the back of my hand: Boccherini Minuet. I actually played this when I was nine and know it all off by heart. What grade would the Prelude to Bach's Suite No. 1 be? I also know the Gigue from that suite and had no problems with them. Again, thanks everyone for your opinions and encouragement!

20-06-2012, 02:09	#11
BigStupidGuy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 376 Adverts \| Friends	That prelude is grade 8 ABRSM.... and senior cert RIAM, but all bach is difficult.