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Freefaller · 28-05-2012, 06:45

I think their are two ways to look at this. People in the west sometimes expect everything to be the same as their home country when they go away. Its very important when you are in Japan or any Asian country for that matter to not go their with the intent that they should know you, and know where you are from. Have a big hello from the plane haha

The west is very individualistic. Japan is a nation where people are very together and working together, individualism is frowned upon to an extent. The togetherness and working together for good can be seen in how quickly they recovered after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

So they don't know where Ireland is, and you feel that you are looked upon unfavourably by the Japanese, or that they are racist. I don't think that at all. I think you will be given opportunities to show that you respect the Japanese and their culture. And when you are respectful, you will be all the more favourable included. I guess it is the same for everything, just be respectful. (que too idealistic comments :-) )

*the groutch* · 28-05-2012, 07:06

apparently it's because of the fact that almost all petty crime (theft,assaults, etc) are committed by Americans, that there is a distrust or at least weariness of all caucasian gaijin.

Freefaller · 28-05-2012, 07:22

I agree groutch if it wasn't for the westerners Japan might even have a lower crime rate, if that is possible

cocoshovel · 01-06-2012, 01:24

People really want to talk to you, and will make an effort but once they ask you where you are from and you tell them, their attitude doesnt change at all. They seem to mostly indifferent really. White is White I guess.

Tristram · 06-06-2012, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by the groutch

apparently it's because of the fact that almost all petty crime (theft,assaults, etc) are committed by Americans, that there is a distrust or at least weariness of all caucasian gaijin.

Please provide some evidence to support your assertion.

**Konata** · 06-06-2012, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristram

Please provide some evidence to support your assertion.

I would just like to re-iterate Tristram's post here. Sweeping statements are completely fine as long as you have some sort of source to back it up with. Otherwise those statements may be considered racist and offensive to the people mentioned.

the groutch, I will allow you a chance to post evidence for your claim. Otherwise I will be removing your post and - this is for everyone - any more posts of that nature will be dealt with accordingly.

shindig-jp · 08-06-2012, 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konata

I would just like to re-iterate Tristram's post here. Sweeping statements are completely fine as long as you have some sort of source to back it up with. Otherwise those statements may be considered racist and offensive to the people mentioned.

the groutch, I will allow you a chance to post evidence for your claim. Otherwise I will be removing your post and - this is for everyone - any more posts of that nature will be dealt with accordingly.

I'm not jumping in to defend the Grouch and the last thing I want to happen to this thread of ... innocents and go off topic , Maybe this will settle the problem and we can all carry on and enjoy the forum on Japan. It may be suited to another topic on the Japan forum but certainly not this thread. There are huge problems in Japan which need to be addressed both in Okinawa and Yokota air bases where crime is rampant with service personal and their expat school brats with the finger pointed at those of us who look American whenever a headline in the news comes up.

This guy is very much a part of my experience of 25 years in Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debito_Arudou

I trust this will be the end of the matter as I find the topic of Japanese attitude V Irish to be racist in nature anyway.

Mr. Loverman · 08-06-2012, 08:26

I don't know if this applies to Japan, but I live in China and would consider racism to be part of the culture here. But whereas in Europe we all know racism is wrong, in China it isn't considered racism - they simply believe as a matter of fact black people are dangerous and sleazy. They generally have a high opinion of white people.

JapanZone · 14-06-2012, 01:36

Whether or not an Irish person will experience racism in Japan depends very much on one key question - what is racism?

If you subscribe to the Debito Arudou (see above post) line of thinking, then racism is viewing a person as in any way different because they have a racial profile that is different to your own. Debito is US-born but has naturalised as a Japanese. Therefore he expects to be treated as a Japanese in every way. A noble and morally defensible idea. He works very hard to shine a light on any incident which runs counter to this idea and to hold the Japanese government to international standards of human rights, etc. But it's also idealistic and so his newspaper and blog articles tend to divide people into those that strongly support him and those that hate him. Check out his recent writing about "microaggression" for a perfect example.

The other line of thinking is that if you're a caucasian, black, non-Japanese Asian, whatever, then you're visibly not a native Japanese (though the increasing number of international marriages and bi-racial kids has really started to blur the lines) and therefore will always be seen as an "outsider." And then it's down to whether you're a "glass half full" person or a "glass half empty" person. Do you enjoy the fact that you can get away with things a Japanese wouldn't, always standing out from the crowd, etc? Or do you feel constantly threatened, looked down upon, excluded? There are of course many shades of grey between the two extremes.

I suppose my main point is that racism in Japan is a very subjective thing and (relative to other countries) rarely a dangerous, violent encounter but more of a subtle, cultural experience. You know the adage, "Wherever you go, there you are"? I take it to mean that no matter what country you visit you bring your own emotional baggage with you. So Japan will be different for every single person, because its seen through their own personal filter.

I'm writing this in a hurry and it hasn't been properly thought out, so pardon any flawed thinking

ordinary_girl · 22-12-2012, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by shindig-jp

Be careful on your return .... re-entry to Irish culture is a major shock so try avoid coming home.

I'm curious about this, what exactly is it about Irish culture that strikes you when get come back over here? Is it generally good or bad?

Mr. Loverman · 22-12-2012, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ordinary_girl

I'm curious about this, what exactly is it about Irish culture that strikes you when get come back over here? Is it generally good or bad?

I would be pretty sure he meant generally bad.

Two simple examples:

Customer service
Scumbags

***Beruthiel*** · 23-12-2012, 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Loverman

Customer service
Scumbags

Two more:

Lack of respect for others.
Dirt.

old hippy · 20-03-2013, 13:13

My wife (before coming to Ireland) often confused Ireland with Iceland. There's plenty of Irish pubs in Tokyo and other big cities, so they do have some idea of us

We were on a small island, a distance from Okinawa and when I told this fellow I was from Dublin, he said "ah; Easter 1916, the GPO, Oscar Wilde, Trinity College etc". I was impressed!

shindig-jp · 20-03-2013, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by old hippy

My wife (before coming to Ireland) often confused Ireland with Iceland. There's plenty of Irish pubs in Tokyo and other big cities, so they do have some idea of us

We were on a small island, a distance from Okinawa and when I told this fellow I was from Dublin, he said "ah; Easter 1916, the GPO, Oscar Wilde, Trinity College etc". I was impressed!

Confused OR lack of general knowledge ? The World cup hosted by and between Japan & Korea in 2002 Japanese officials were bewildered by English football fans sporting the George cross painted on their faces and producing British passports at immigration . The first batch off the planes were all held on suspicion of having false passports . The reason ? Football fans should have the union jack painted on their face .

kupus · 20-03-2013, 14:37

Two more
Drinking and pub culture
They fixed the road type politics.

and to those who got called Icelandic, try being called Iraqi.
oh you're from Iraq, how did you escape???

14-06-2012, 01:36	#54
JapanZone Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Dublin Posts: 42 Adverts \| Friends	Whether or not an Irish person will experience racism in Japan depends very much on one key question - what is racism? If you subscribe to the Debito Arudou (see above post) line of thinking, then racism is viewing a person as in any way different because they have a racial profile that is different to your own. Debito is US-born but has naturalised as a Japanese. Therefore he expects to be treated as a Japanese in every way. A noble and morally defensible idea. He works very hard to shine a light on any incident which runs counter to this idea and to hold the Japanese government to international standards of human rights, etc. But it's also idealistic and so his newspaper and blog articles tend to divide people into those that strongly support him and those that hate him. Check out his recent writing about "microaggression" for a perfect example. The other line of thinking is that if you're a caucasian, black, non-Japanese Asian, whatever, then you're visibly not a native Japanese (though the increasing number of international marriages and bi-racial kids has really started to blur the lines) and therefore will always be seen as an "outsider." And then it's down to whether you're a "glass half full" person or a "glass half empty" person. Do you enjoy the fact that you can get away with things a Japanese wouldn't, always standing out from the crowd, etc? Or do you feel constantly threatened, looked down upon, excluded? There are of course many shades of grey between the two extremes. I suppose my main point is that racism in Japan is a very subjective thing and (relative to other countries) rarely a dangerous, violent encounter but more of a subtle, cultural experience. You know the adage, "Wherever you go, there you are"? I take it to mean that no matter what country you visit you bring your own emotional baggage with you. So Japan will be different for every single person, because its seen through their own personal filter. I'm writing this in a hurry and it hasn't been properly thought out, so pardon any flawed thinking Last edited by JapanZone; 14-06-2012 at 01:43.

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28-05-2012, 06:45	#46
Freefaller Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 24 Adverts \| Friends	I think their are two ways to look at this. People in the west sometimes expect everything to be the same as their home country when they go away. Its very important when you are in Japan or any Asian country for that matter to not go their with the intent that they should know you, and know where you are from. Have a big hello from the plane haha The west is very individualistic. Japan is a nation where people are very together and working together, individualism is frowned upon to an extent. The togetherness and working together for good can be seen in how quickly they recovered after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami. So they don't know where Ireland is, and you feel that you are looked upon unfavourably by the Japanese, or that they are racist. I don't think that at all. I think you will be given opportunities to show that you respect the Japanese and their culture. And when you are respectful, you will be all the more favourable included. I guess it is the same for everything, just be respectful. (que too idealistic comments :-) )

28-05-2012, 07:06	#47
the groutch Subscriber Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,612 Adverts \| Friends	apparently it's because of the fact that almost all petty crime (theft,assaults, etc) are committed by Americans, that there is a distrust or at least weariness of all caucasian gaijin.

28-05-2012, 07:22	#48
Freefaller Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 24 Adverts \| Friends	I agree groutch if it wasn't for the westerners Japan might even have a lower crime rate, if that is possible

01-06-2012, 01:24	#49
cocoshovel Closed Account Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,963 Adverts \| Friends	People really want to talk to you, and will make an effort but once they ask you where you are from and you tell them, their attitude doesnt change at all. They seem to mostly indifferent really. White is White I guess.

08-06-2012, 08:26	#53
Mr. Loverman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Beijing Posts: 2,835 Adverts \| Friends	I don't know if this applies to Japan, but I live in China and would consider racism to be part of the culture here. But whereas in Europe we all know racism is wrong, in China it isn't considered racism - they simply believe as a matter of fact black people are dangerous and sleazy. They generally have a high opinion of white people.

20-03-2013, 13:13	#58
old hippy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Away from you Posts: 5,974 Adverts \| Friends	My wife (before coming to Ireland) often confused Ireland with Iceland. There's plenty of Irish pubs in Tokyo and other big cities, so they do have some idea of us We were on a small island, a distance from Okinawa and when I told this fellow I was from Dublin, he said "ah; Easter 1916, the GPO, Oscar Wilde, Trinity College etc". I was impressed!

20-03-2013, 14:37	#60
kupus Registered User Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: surrounded by liberal looney lefties Posts: 1,360 Adverts \| Friends	Two more Drinking and pub culture They fixed the road type politics. and to those who got called Icelandic, try being called Iraqi. oh you're from Iraq, how did you escape???