[pedroeibar1]

Originally Posted by slowburner

Tough stuff this early history.

A huge find of treasure has been discovered buried in a field in Co.Wicklow.
Experts say the collection of 1,500 gold and silver objects, many of Roman origin, may date to the 5th Century, is unparalleled in size. It today has been declared treasure by Irish government minister, Mr. Jimmy Deenihan, T.D., Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, meaning it belongs to the Irish State.
Wicklow local Fintan O’Toole, who found it on farmland using a metal detector, said it "was what metal detectorists dream of" and worth "a seven-figure sum" although he acknowledges it could take more than a year for it to be valued.
It was the unusually large number household artefacts along with the treasure that led to the high level of secrecy and has delayed any publicity surrounding the find. Informed sources in Dublin state that a total of 1,757 items have been examined by experts, although the list includes 37 clods of earth which have been X-rayed and are known to contain further metal artefacts. This means the total number of metal items found is likely to rise to about 1,500.
Following the initial find, Mr Seamus Lynam, acting-director of the National Museum of Ireland and his colleagues were invited to excavate the site. Neither the Museum nor any of its staff have as yet issued statements on the find.
Seamus MacGiolla Iosa, former keeper at the National Museum's Department of Prehistory and Europe, said: "This is going to alter our perceptions of the Ireland of St. Patrick as radically, if not more so, than the Gleninsheen Collar did to our knowledge of later Bronze Age metalwork” adding "It is absolutely the equivalent of finding a new Lindisfarne Gospels or Book of Kells.”
Although the possibility of it being a Viking hoard have not definitively been ruled out, sources close to the experts state it is highly likely that the find is linked to Roman settlement, as household objects of Roman style also were unearthed. Some circles are already linking the treasure trove to one of two possible clerics of Roman origin, either Auxilius, missionary bishop in Ireland or Iserinus, a successor in the same role. Both had strong links with Wicklow, using it as a staging post for their monasteries in Kildare.


See full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/i...ow/8272058.stm

[dubhthach]

Fintan with a metal detector in farmland? Awh well guaranteed his article on saturdays will be stocked. In other news I hate April fools.

[Enkidu]

Here's the most pertinent ones, kind sir.

Tigroney
Kilcashel
Templelusk


I'm interested in these names as well but they are probably less relevant.

Crone
Bahana

and there's a cluster of 'Kil's'

Kilmacoo
Kilmagig
Killeagh
Kilqueeny

Kilmacoo

The origin of the name lies in a church dedicated to Cuach, a local virgin, whose feast day is the 29th of May. (According to Micheál Ó Cléirigh, leader of the Four Masters behind the Annals of the Four Masters).

The church is mentioned by Strongbow in his 1173 list of churches and is pre-Norman.

Templelusk

Simple enough etymology many would say, teampall loiscthe = burnt temple, and you will find this in many books, supported by a local tradition of Cromwell burning the church. First mentioned definitively at the start of the 17th century.

However it is probably the same as a church mentioned in the "Manor of Leys" in the early 13th century. The Leys were a family, in Irish "Laigis". So it's probably Temple of the Laigis.

Tigroney

There is a place in Wicklow, in Avoca, claimed in the Annals to be the first church ever built in Ireland, by Palladius himself. Its Irish name is given as "Tech na Róman" (House of the Romans) as early as early as the 9th century, in glosses on Latin texts and biographies of Patrick, so it is at least that old.

Tigroney is first mentioned in writings in the late 16th century.

The two were commonly identified in the 19th century, but this is a conjecture.

There is a good chance that the name is actually Ti-groney, with ti coming from tí a Leinster pronunciation of tigh, a word for house and "groney" an Anglisation of somebody's name. So simple Groney's House, whoever (or whatever family/group) Groney was.

Kilcashel

Is just "church of the caiseal" with caiseal being an Irish copy of a Gaulish copy of the Roman castellum. Mentioned by Strongbow and pre-Norman.

Kilmagig

This is an odd one. Its real name is Domhnachrignaigi, meaning "Kingly Christian cell of the windy plane". Naigi being a highly contracted Old Irish
suffix meaning windy plane. At some point Kingly Christian Cell was knocked off and replaced with Church = Cill, hence the modern name. Pre-Norman.

Kilqueeny

Mentioned first in the Early 17th Century. Church of somebody called Cainech. Could be Cainech the queen of Leinster at the start of the 6th century or the goddess Cainech upon Christianisation. So this one could be old.

Killeagh

First mention 16th Century under this name (in its Irish version), but loads of names before that. It refers to a local Coilleach or a guard house found in the woods. Sometimes Coilleach beag, so it was a little guard house. Nothing too exciting in this one.

Crone

From Old Irish "Crón" (which didn't make it to Modern Irish), meaning "small valley". So it's just a small valley. Several places in Wicklow have thisas part of their name, as it was the Wicklow dialect word for small valley.

Bahana

Anglisation of Beitheach, meaning a place full of Birch trees. So it would have been the a spot with a few Brich trees.

[pedroeibar1]

Originally Posted by Enkidu

Crone

From Old Irish "Crón" (which didn't make it to Modern Irish), meaning "small valley". So it's just a small valley. Several places in Wicklow have thisas part of their name, as it was the Wicklow dialect word for small valley.

Very interesting take on Crone which had been mentioned to me as another word for a ‘hollow’. There also was a St of that name,



........ Croine, one of many Irish saints to have been recorded on the Irish calendars, but who has left no Vita to give further details of her life. As Canon O'Hanlon explains, there is even no certainty as to the locality in which she may have flourished, the Martyrology of Tallaght identifying her with Inuse Lochacrone which may suggest a County Sligo location, and the 19th-century scholar John O'Donovan placing her at Kilcroney, County Wicklow:

St. Croine, Virgin, of Kill-Crony, in the County of Wicklow, or at Inishcrone, County of Sligo.

A festival in honour of Croni of Inuse Lochacrone is entered in the Martyrology of Tallagh, at the 27th of January. The locality named is possibly identical with the present Inishcrone, near the River Moy, in Tireragh barony, county of Sligo. A strong castle of Eiscir-Abhann, stood here. Inishcrone town, with the ruined church and graveyard, is in the parish of Kilglass, and near the rocky shore, at Killala Bay. Again, there was a Cill-Cruain, now Kilcrone, an old church, giving name to a townland and parish in the barony of Ballymoe, in the county of Galway. We find that Croine, virgin, of Cill Croine, is recorded, likewise, in the Martyrology of Donegal, on this day. She is of the race of Máine, son of Niall. Her place has been identified with Kill-crony, in the county of Wicklow, and as giving no name to a modern parochial district, it may have been denominated from the establishment of a cell or nunnery here, by the present saint, while possibly clerical ministrations had been supplied by the religious community or pastor, living at Kilmacanoge, in remote times. More we cannot glean regarding this holy woman yet, we may conjecture, she must have flourished at a very early period.

From http://brigid-undertheoak.blogspot.c...e-of-cill.html
I’ve no knowledge of the blogger / historic authenticity.

[slowburner]

Originally Posted by Enkidu

Kilmacoo

The origin of the name lies in a church dedicated to Cuach, a local virgin, whose feast day is the 29th of May. (According to Micheál Ó Cléirigh, leader of the Four Masters behind the Annals of the Four Masters).

The church is mentioned by Strongbow in his 1173 list of churches and is pre-Norman.

Templelusk

Simple enough etymology many would say, teampall loiscthe = burnt temple, and you will find this in many books, supported by a local tradition of Cromwell burning the church. First mentioned definitively at the start of the 17th century.

However it is probably the same as a church mentioned in the "Manor of Leys" in the early 13th century. The Leys were a family, in Irish "Laigis". So it's probably Temple of the Laigis.

Tigroney

There is a place in Wicklow, in Avoca, claimed in the Annals to be the first church ever built in Ireland, by Palladius himself. Its Irish name is given as "Tech na Róman" (House of the Romans) as early as early as the 9th century, in glosses on Latin texts and biographies of Patrick, so it is at least that old.

Tigroney is first mentioned in writings in the late 16th century.

The two were commonly identified in the 19th century, but this is a conjecture.

There is a good chance that the name is actually Ti-groney, with ti coming from tí a Leinster pronunciation of tigh, a word for house and "groney" an Anglisation of somebody's name. So simple Groney's House, whoever (or whatever family/group) Groney was.

Kilcashel

Is just "church of the caiseal" with caiseal being an Irish copy of a Gaulish copy of the Roman castellum. Mentioned by Strongbow and pre-Norman.

Kilmagig

This is an odd one. Its real name is Domhnachrignaigi, meaning "Kingly Christian cell of the windy plane". Naigi being a highly contracted Old Irish
suffix meaning windy plane. At some point Kingly Christian Cell was knocked off and replaced with Church = Cill, hence the modern name. Pre-Norman.

Kilqueeny

Mentioned first in the Early 17th Century. Church of somebody called Cainech. Could be Cainech the queen of Leinster at the start of the 6th century or the goddess Cainech upon Christianisation. So this one could be old.

Killeagh

First mention 16th Century under this name (in its Irish version), but loads of names before that. It refers to a local Coilleach or a guard house found in the woods. Sometimes Coilleach beag, so it was a little guard house. Nothing too exciting in this one.

Crone

From Old Irish "Crón" (which didn't make it to Modern Irish), meaning "small valley". So it's just a small valley. Several places in Wicklow have thisas part of their name, as it was the Wicklow dialect word for small valley.

Bahana

Anglisation of Beitheach, meaning a place full of Birch trees. So it would have been the a spot with a few Brich trees.

Great stuff, as ever, Enkidu.

There is a distinctive clustering of townlands in the area which all contain the word 'Temple' - Templelusk, Ballintemple, Templerainey, Templepatrick, Templemichael.
An hint at interesting times past, perhaps?

One of Palladius' three churches, in fact his first, is indeed reputed to have been in Tigroney. I know the site very well, but sadly the church (if it was there at all) was built of wood and nothing remains.

Two ringforts survive in unusual proximity to each other in Tigroney, and there were a number of other enclosures which have since disappeared.

Strongbow's list of churches - any more info? The church in Kilcashel apparently fell into disuse in 1130, insofar as the date is reliable. I found the date in a note scribbled on a scrap of paper hidden amongst some C.19th death certs. Obviously this predates the second synod of Cashel (1172) and I wonder if this small church was a victim of the transition from the monastic tradition.

[Enkidu]

Originally Posted by slowburner

Great stuff, as ever, Enkidu.

There is a distinctive clustering of townlands in the area which all contain the word 'Temple' - Templelusk, Ballintemple, Templerainey, Templepatrick, Templemichael.

Most of these are simple:
TemplePatrick = Patrick's temple
TempleMichael = Michael's temple

TempleMichael is post-Norman, almost certainly (reasons can be provided if asked for, they are sociolinguistic) despite other theories.

TemplePatrick is post-Norman as well and probably had a different name originally.

Ballintemple = Town of the Temple, post-Norman.

Templerainey = Temple of Saint Rignach, originally DomhnachRignagi. Post-Norman.

[slowburner]

Originally Posted by pedroeibar1

Very interesting take on Crone which had been mentioned to me as another word for a ‘hollow’. There also was a St of that name,



........ Croine, one of many Irish saints to have been recorded on the Irish calendars, but who has left no Vita to give further details of her life. As Canon O'Hanlon explains, there is even no certainty as to the locality in which she may have flourished, the Martyrology of Tallaght identifying her with Inuse Lochacrone which may suggest a County Sligo location, and the 19th-century scholar John O'Donovan placing her at Kilcroney, County Wicklow:

St. Croine, Virgin, of Kill-Crony, in the County of Wicklow, or at Inishcrone, County of Sligo.

A festival in honour of Croni of Inuse Lochacrone is entered in the Martyrology of Tallagh, at the 27th of January. The locality named is possibly identical with the present Inishcrone, near the River Moy, in Tireragh barony, county of Sligo. A strong castle of Eiscir-Abhann, stood here. Inishcrone town, with the ruined church and graveyard, is in the parish of Kilglass, and near the rocky shore, at Killala Bay. Again, there was a Cill-Cruain, now Kilcrone, an old church, giving name to a townland and parish in the barony of Ballymoe, in the county of Galway. We find that Croine, virgin, of Cill Croine, is recorded, likewise, in the Martyrology of Donegal, on this day. She is of the race of Máine, son of Niall. Her place has been identified with Kill-crony, in the county of Wicklow, and as giving no name to a modern parochial district, it may have been denominated from the establishment of a cell or nunnery here, by the present saint, while possibly clerical ministrations had been supplied by the religious community or pastor, living at Kilmacanoge, in remote times. More we cannot glean regarding this holy woman yet, we may conjecture, she must have flourished at a very early period.

From http://brigid-undertheoak.blogspot.c...e-of-cill.html
I’ve no knowledge of the blogger / historic authenticity.

Here's the original text from Lives of the Irish Saints. Rev. John O'Hanlon (1821 - 1905).
The information in the site above is based on this text.
I thought the images might be of interest, if they're legible.

[slowburner]

And here's the church today.
http://www.geograph.ie/photo/2002857

[Mr. Presentable]

Someone should tell that woman it's behind her

[slowburner]

Here's news of an upcoming conference on the Romans in Ireland, 20-21 October 2012.

Until quite recently Roman material at Irish sites was widely regarded as anomolous or intrusive within the traditional archaeological narrative of the later Iron Age. With no expectation of contexts that might hold Roman evidence, readily identifiable material such as Samian ware, fibulae, coins and glass have been classified as 'intrusive' and often considered irrelevant to dating sequences at sites. More recent excavations, contemporary research and more recent finds have, however, prompted a reconsideration of Ireland's engagement with the Roman administration in the western provinces. The LIARI project was designed to investigate fully this formative period in early Irish history and has forged new collaborative research with leading scholars both inside and outside Ireland. The conference will provide an extraordinary opportunity for us re-evaulate the settlement, societies and economy of 'Ireland in a Roman world'.

http://www.discoveryprogramme.ie/new...onference.html



(also posted this in Archaeology forum)

[Prometheus]

Thanks for the heads up. Will definitely be going to this.

[kroisis]

Since I've not accumulated enough posts to utilize the "thanks" feature I must say a huge "Thanks" to all who have contributed to this thread.

You all have given me an enormous list of things to ponder til' deep in the night and the resources through which to rifle.

Wish I'd seen this thread before posting my Rathlin questions one, Lol!