[Dr Galen]

Originally Posted by MagicMarker

Personally, there shouldn't be any religious paraphernalia on the walls in a nursing home, except for in the occupant's own room, where they can have a life size waxwork of Jesus for all I care.

I have no problem with there being a room dedicated to religious practice, catering to people of all beliefs.

Again, I don't really disagree, but you do have to take into account that the nursing home is that person's home now. You can't really separate the residents room from the rest of the building tbh. It's kinda all the same.

Originally Posted by UDP

So a minority should be ignored? Same argument could be made about schools.

No, I don't agree with the schools argument being the same, and the only reason for that is as I've mentioned before, because of the demographics involved. We have a (relatively) big cohort of parents who do not want their kids to attend a faith/catholic/christian school. That population just doesn't really exist in our older population.

If we were talking about acute hospitals, then I'd be much more in agreement with both you and the OP. Acute hospitals have a population much more varied, and so to my mind we should be working towards a secular environment there, which will be hard considering that nearly all of the large acute hospitals are owned by religious orders, much like the secularisation of our schools.

[MagicMarker]

Originally Posted by Dr Galen

Again, I don't really disagree, but you do have to take into account that the nursing home is that person's home now. You can't really separate the residents room from the rest of the building tbh. It's kinda all the same.

True, but it's also a shared home. Would you be happy if a house mate who paid the same rent as you stuck religious paraphernalia around the house? Compromises need to be met imo.

In publicly funded shared accommodation the communal areas should remain as neutral as possible.

[ShooterSF]

I found out months ago after spending years hiding it from her that my 82 year old, brought up in the Catholic faith, grandmother is actually a non-believer. It took a few of her grandsons being open about it for her to finally feel confident enough to say it.

It shocked me as she goes on religious retreats and such regularly but as I thought about it the sad fact is so many of her peers only take part in religious activities, even if it's just mass before bingo, that she does it solely for the social reasons.

I guess I'd also prefer to see a multi-purpose relaxation/spiritual room which when not in use has no clear leanings to any demographic. The thing is though unlike children who are too young to truly believe in a faith and unlike most adults who can believe in one and access it in their free time, adults in nursing homes tend to be restricted as to where they go and what they do and I'd be more comfortable with the state trying to cater to their wants where possible as long as one isn't given preference.

With that said and as my mind continues to flip flop on this issue, I'm very much against the idea of opening out one wall and possibly subjecting residents to either a mass they don't want or forcing them to leave their usually non-religious rec room.

[robindch]

Originally Posted by ShooterSF

[...] solely for the social reasons [...]

There's a lot to be said for that, and it's one of the things that religion does well.

Here's a rather intriguing story on aging, and how religion was used to support the idea of community, for the benefit of all:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/bo...pagewanted=all

[UDP]

Originally Posted by Dr Galen

No, I don't agree with the schools argument being the same, and the only reason for that is as I've mentioned before, because of the demographics involved. We have a (relatively) big cohort of parents who do not want their kids to attend a faith/catholic/christian school. That population just doesn't really exist in our older population.

So we should just assume that everyone living in a nursing home is a christian?

[Dades]

Originally Posted by TheChizler

Myself I suppose it's ok as long as one religion isn't favoured. Removing Christian imagery and rebranding nursing home and hospital chapels as general purpose relaxation/prayer space like you get in airports would fulfil secular requirements.

And such a demand from a group like, for example, Atheist Ireland, would set any secular cause back years.

Surely the argument is not whether technically a secular society would not allow religious iconography in a publicly funded care home, but whether it is a fight worth fighting or even mentioning?

[Dave!]

I have no desire to fight such a fight, but it does seem somewhat hypocritical to call for religion and government to be completely seperate, yet to turn a blind eye to a rather blatant example of sectarianism because it would require some uncomfortable decisions to be made.

Maybe us secular atheist types aren't so militant after all! Soft as sh*te!!

[TheChizler]

Originally Posted by Dades

And such a demand from a group like, for example, Atheist Ireland, would set any secular cause back years.

Surely the argument is not whether technically a secular society would not allow religious iconography in a publicly funded care home, but whether it is a fight worth fighting or even mentioning?

Oh definitely not calling for it to be demanded or anything, it's really at the bottom of the list of priorities. Just from my experience in seeing prayer rooms in some private care centres, they can be done up well without any obvious iconography and you really wouldn't notice unless you were specifically looking for it.

[Dades]

Originally Posted by TheChizler

Oh definitely not calling for it to be demanded or anything, it's really at the bottom of the list of priorities...

Yeah, I know you were quoted but I didn't mean to imply you were making demands!

Originally Posted by Dave!

I have no desire to fight such a fight, but it does seem somewhat hypocritical to call for religion and government to be completely seperate, yet to turn a blind eye to a rather blatant example of sectarianism because it would require some uncomfortable decisions to be made.

I don't see any hypocrisy whatsoever, just a willingness on the part of secularists to prioritise and take each case on it's own merits. If there were a clamouring from residents of nursing homes things might be different.

[Galvasean]

Originally Posted by Dades

I don't see any hypocrisy whatsoever, just a willingness on the part of secularists to prioritise and take each case on it's own merits. If there were a clamouring from residents of nursing homes things might be different.

I don't see this becoming an issue until a sizable chunk of non-Christians reach 'retirement home age' and their families take issue with the Government that secular alternatives are not available - much like what is happening in schools today.

[jank]

Originally Posted by Dave!

Not sure how it can be brushed off so easily... If the State should stay out of the religion business, then it should stay out of the religion business shouldn't it? Aren't the same factors potentially at play in a nursing home as in a school? i.e. if a Muslim patient has to go to a nursing home, should they just accept that the place is covered in crucifixes?

Yes.

[Paarthurnax]

Any of the the majority of nursing homes that I have worked either Private or HSE owned do not have a dedicated room for prayer or a chapel. Normally mass is said once a week be a local priest usually on a week day. A small percentage of the residents attend. For me as an atheiest I dont mind and I consider it just as any activity such as music therapy or activation therapy. As for religious iconography I cant see these homes littered with statues and crosses etc.