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10-05-2012, 17:26   #61
OldNotWIse
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Yes, which I referred to in my response, which mentioned something about conscious give it another read sure.
Gawd stop being so narky Just trying to have a discussion. Er...do you mind if I dont(trawl back)? I'm leaving here in 6.5 mins to go see my lovely gf (who incidentally shares your views about the "choice" element - I believe she likened it to deciding one day you might not like ketchup anymore....I watch her anxiously when we're in the chippie ) Actually I'm sorry for the tone of my posts, I have my girlies and am like a barb at the mo (yes yes I hear you say that oul' card, tmi etc etc) I guess none of us will ever be proved wrong or right. But for sure I will read the posts again tomorrow I promise. Have a nice evening.
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10-05-2012, 17:30   #62
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Yes, which I referred to in my response, which mentioned something about conscious give it another read sure.
What difference does it make if it's conscious or not? The same psychological motivations are at play.


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Originally Posted by ViveLaVie View Post
It just makes it a bit easier to know you you're talking to then.


The fact remains, that even if the choice is unconscious, the psychological motivations for making this choice are the same. You have mentioned discrimination, procreation and societal pressures as influences on these choices. I don't believe that I unconsciously tended towards heterosexuality above bisexuality or homosexuality. In this line of thinking, bisexuals are the only people who are not subject to psychological or societal pressures? Why would this be?


I do not believe I ever had the capacity for a bisexual or homosexual relationship as IMO I was born straight. If I accept your argument, then that means my sexual orientation is fluid and open to reinterpretation; biologically I still retain the capacity to be bisexual or homosexual but I have refused both of those orientations.
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10-05-2012, 18:10   #63
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Gawd stop being so narky Just trying to have a discussion. Er...do you mind if I dont(trawl back)? I'm leaving here in 6.5 mins to go see my lovely gf (who incidentally shares your views about the "choice" element - I believe she likened it to deciding one day you might not like ketchup anymore....I watch her anxiously when we're in the chippie ) Actually I'm sorry for the tone of my posts, I have my girlies and am like a barb at the mo (yes yes I hear you say that oul' card, tmi etc etc) I guess none of us will ever be proved wrong or right. But for sure I will read the posts again tomorrow I promise. Have a nice evening.

Haha i wouldn't be too pushed myself at the end of the day you are either gay, bi, straight or even in-between.... I do detecht the humour behind those lines. good man urself
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10-05-2012, 18:11   #64
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Haha i wouldn't be too pushed myself at the end of the day you are either gay, bi, straight or even in-between.... I do detecht the humour behind those lines. good man urself
I am also hungry, shtarving (for food...)
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10-05-2012, 23:10   #65
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This should be pinned or something. I am sick of people asking this question.

Like does the whole gay community have to explain ourselves to one person ? We don't ask straight people did they choose to be straight
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10-05-2012, 23:14   #66
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This should be pinned or something. I am sick of people asking this question.

Like does the whole gay community have to explain ourselves to one person ? We don't ask straight people did they choose to be straight
I completely agree. I think a more appropriate title for this thread would be "Is sexual orientation a choice?" because tbh the main argument on this thread regards all sexual orientations.

Also feckedformocks I'm interested to hear your response to my counter on the conscious/unconscious thing.

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11-05-2012, 09:07   #67
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Ok I suppose I better come back here. One or two answers to my question but in the middle it got very odd for a while.

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OP, why don't you turn this question on its head to see how much sense it makes?

Did you choose to be straight and if so, when and why? Do you have sexual attractions to men but choose not to act on them? Could you wake up tomorrow and decide to be gay for a week or two, find men sexually attractive and "stimulating", go sleep with a whole bunch of men and enjoy the whole thing?

If your answer is "no, don't be ridiculous, I'm straight and my penis couldn't get erect if I was asked to sleep with loads of men," then please don't be so silly that people choose to be "gay" for the craic even though it can mean being discriminated against, abused, bullied, beaten or even killed.

If your answer is "yes I could, but then I'd still prefer women" then your bisexual with a preference for women.

If your answer is "OMG that sounds totes amazing", then your gayer then a glee christmas special.

I'm not trying to be flippant, and I'm sure you were coming from a genuine place in asking. And i'm not trying to accuse you of being gay.

It's just when you stop and think about it, it's either a silly question or the person asking it is at the very least bisexual.
You see I've done that and I still didn't get the answer. But maybe this is it - we all find our sexual orientation around puberty or thereabouts i.e. my sentence about girls having cooties at ten and smouldering hotness at fifteen. Then straight people just go on as normal and go out with the opposite sex. But LGB people have to come out. Is it because they are going against "societal norm" that they have to come out?

And before somebody is seething with anger, I do not mean that LGB people are not normal, just that you have to come out as opposed to straight people who just go along and get into a relationship without any fuss or question.

And that's probably where I am coming from. LGB people have to come out and it is a big deal, whereas straight people don't. Why is this?
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11-05-2012, 09:26   #68
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Haha i wouldn't be too pushed myself at the end of the day you are either gay, bi, straight or even in-between.... I do detecht the humour behind those lines. good man urself
Er... good man?

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This should be pinned or something. I am sick of people asking this question.

Like does the whole gay community have to explain ourselves to one person ? We don't ask straight people did they choose to be straight
True
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11-05-2012, 09:27   #69
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Ok I suppose I better come back here. One or two answers to my question but in the middle it got very odd for a while.



You see I've done that and I still didn't get the answer. But maybe this is it - we all find our sexual orientation around puberty or thereabouts i.e. my sentence about girls having cooties at ten and smouldering hotness at fifteen. Then straight people just go on as normal and go out with the opposite sex. But LGB people have to come out. Is it because they are going against "societal norm" that they have to come out?

And before somebody is seething with anger, I do not mean that LGB people are not normal, just that you have to come out as opposed to straight people who just go along and get into a relationship without any fuss or question.

And that's probably where I am coming from. LGB people have to come out and it is a big deal, whereas straight people don't. Why is this?
Heteronormativity

Society designs so many things around straight couples in a marriage being the normal and taking on normative gender roles. It begins in the school with school books showing mummy in the kitchen and daddy in the garden and then you get all the fairytales so peoole are socialised from an early age that heterosexual realtionships with strict gender roles are normal.

Last edited by Joeytheparrot; 11-05-2012 at 09:33.
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11-05-2012, 09:43   #70
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Ok I suppose I better come back here. One or two answers to my question but in the middle it got very odd for a while.



You see I've done that and I still didn't get the answer. But maybe this is it - we all find our sexual orientation around puberty or thereabouts i.e. my sentence about girls having cooties at ten and smouldering hotness at fifteen. Then straight people just go on as normal and go out with the opposite sex. But LGB people have to come out. Is it because they are going against "societal norm" that they have to come out?

And before somebody is seething with anger, I do not mean that LGB people are not normal, just that you have to come out as opposed to straight people who just go along and get into a relationship without any fuss or question.

And that's probably where I am coming from. LGB people have to come out and it is a big deal, whereas straight people don't. Why is this?
I can understand the point of your post, without taking offence. I think we know that saying "normal/abnormal" is not an intentional dig (if we were to pull ourselves up at every perceived political incorrection sure we'd be here all day lol). I suppose its like any minority, or anything thats not mainstream.
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11-05-2012, 09:43   #71
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Originally Posted by Fergus_Nash View Post

You see I've done that and I still didn't get the answer. But maybe this is it - we all find our sexual orientation around puberty or thereabouts i.e. my sentence about girls having cooties at ten and smouldering hotness at fifteen. Then straight people just go on as normal and go out with the opposite sex. But LGB people have to come out. Is it because they are going against "societal norm" that they have to come out?

And before somebody is seething with anger, I do not mean that LGB people are not normal, just that you have to come out as opposed to straight people who just go along and get into a relationship without any fuss or question.

And that's probably where I am coming from. LGB people have to come out and it is a big deal, whereas straight people don't. Why is this?
Just to clarify, does your question solely relate to coming out rather than sexual attraction?

Gay people will stop having to come out when the rest of society stops caring about who we sleep with.
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11-05-2012, 09:49   #72
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And that's probably where I am coming from. LGB people have to come out and it is a big deal, whereas straight people don't. Why is this?
I believe the reason some (and certainly not all) come out is because for the most part, society perceives and assumes being straight is the norm. Any exception to the rule may prompt you to have to explain yourself should you feel you have to (ie coming out in the case of sexual orientation). When something is not the norm, there can be an expectation to explain it. Whether you do explain/come out is up to each individual. Of course there are situations where you are outed by others which may or may not be desirable depending on the circumstances.

For example, I will get strangers or people who don't know me well assuming I have a wife or girlfriend in comments they make to me, guys may make sexual comments about women to me assuming I also would feel the same way (eg She's hot! or I'd do her...! etc). The point is you are assumed to be straight (unless of course you have stereotypical attributes that mean you don't have to verbally come out). By not coming out, there can be awkward situations where you have to pretend or omit facts or indeed lie about yourself which, personally, I would find too much of a cross to bear the older I get, hence my reason for coming out when I did.

You say coming out is a big deal - sure it is for some and not for others, likewise for the people you are coming out to - it may or may not be a big deal. I think the key is not to make assumptions or generalisations about anything, particularly sexuality.
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11-05-2012, 11:06   #73
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I am a homosexual male and I believe its genetic.I have two brothers who are also gay.We have a gay uncle(my mother's brother).Its my opinion that my mother also carried the gay gene and it passed on to me and my siblings.Same with straight people-genetic.I must stress it's only my opinion.
To echo,what Baby and Crumble said why would anyone choose to be gay.My brother is a garda,he lives a lie at work feels he cant tell his colleagues at work or he would face untold amount of discrimination,cant even add them on fb as they would then know he's homosexual.My other brother is a primary school teacher,if he mentioned that in his interview he might not of got the job and have some parents take their children out of his classroom.How could anyone suggest one chooses to be gay with all the discrimination we face.
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11-05-2012, 11:07   #74
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I would say sexual orientation is a biological imperative. Choice is a poor word to use for such discussions. It's technically a choice whether or not to escape from a burning building.
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11-05-2012, 11:20   #75
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I am a homosexual male and I believe its genetic.I have two brothers who are also gay.We have a gay uncle(my mother's brother).Its my opinion that my mother also carried the gay gene and it passed on to me and my siblings.Same with straight people-genetic.I must stress it's only my opinion.
To echo,what Baby and Crumble said why would anyone choose to be gay.My brother is a garda,he lives a lie at work feels he cant tell his colleagues at work or he would face untold amount of discrimination,cant even add them on fb as they would then know he's homosexual.My other brother is a primary school teacher,if he mentioned that in his interview he might not of got the job and have some parents take their children out of his classroom.How could anyone suggest one chooses to be gay with all the discrimination we face.
I agree with you that it certainly not a choice. How sad that we still live in a society where your brothers must hide their true selves in order to keep the peace. Certainly many small minded people would make your brother's (the teacher's) life hell if they knew. Is their much homophobia in the guards?

You could be onto something re genetics. One of my exes has about 4 or 5 gay cousins and possibly one sibling also. My girlfriend's brother is gay, and one cousin aswell. The only thing I dont understand though is if it is genetic, surely it wouldn't still be prevalent? (given that gay people tend not to have procreated) Would the gene not have been wiped out by now? though like you said it if its recessive and some people are carriers etc...must go back to the LC bio books lol Whether genetic or not, I do believe its certainly "biological" as opposed to some informed decision we make. I heard a theory before that its something to do with a certain point in embryonic development when the embryo gets a "dose" of certain hormones, and sometimes the levels are mixed up or something and hence someone ends up gay..(not very scientific wording but its hangover friday after boozy thursday lol)
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