[Buttonftw]

Originally Posted by Ficus

Exactly. And dont forget that Webber got more fastest laps last year than any other driver

Yeah because he spent his races burning through tyres.

[Max_Charger]

Originally Posted by Cookie_Monster

The problem with Webber is despite having the same car as Seb he regularly comes nowhere. How Redbull still let him drive is beyond me, never mind Ferrari. He deserve nothing better than a mid field team IMO, just never performs as he should and to what the car is capable of.
Ferrari have an experienced driver in Alonso already, why the pressing need for another? The need a younger long term prospect who can stay there for years and work with them long term rather than the likes of Webber who'll be around for a year or two at most.


True, but there are still better prospect out there. I reckon the Perez move is far more likely.

I think you're suffering from a condition known as "vettelblindness" there, Webber is undoubtedly one of the best drivers in F1, but its the fact that Vettel is on another planet with his talent that he gets overshadowed. He's currently in 3rd place in the drivers standings, he finished in 3rd last year and the year before that. I dont know where you're getting the notion he "regularly comes nowhere" !? (Can you tell i'm a fan? )

[OSI]

I'm not sure Mark would do well at Ferrari, especially mentally.

I think it's been fairly evident in recent years that he is not happy being somebodies number 2 driver, which he has been at Red Bull, and will definitely be at Ferrari.

I can't imagine he'd willingly go from being treated as number 2 in one of the front running teams that at least tries to hide their bias, to be being treated as a number 2 in a team that is not only struggling but openly shows bias to their top driver.

[Jordan 191]

[Scotty #]

Originally Posted by Cookie_Monster

The problem with Webber is despite having the same car as Seb he regularly comes nowhere. How Redbull still let him drive is beyond me, never mind Ferrari.

Didn't he have several head to heads with Seb last year?? and was in contention to win the drivers championship in 2010 going into the last race of the season?

I don't think it's fair to say 'they have the same car' - both cars have a different team of mechanics running different set ups and race strategies. By the time they get to the grid they are totally different cars. I think if Mark was given total freedom to race his own race he'd do better.

I think the fact that F1 has No1 and No2 drivers and 'team orders' has ruined the sport. I have no doubt that there are also 'agreements' between different teams. If F1 is truly a 'team sport' as Christian Horner and the likes keep telling us, then scrap the drivers championship altogether.

[freestyla]

Originally Posted by OSI

I'm not sure Mark would do well at Ferrari, especially mentally.

I think it's been fairly evident in recent years that he is not happy being somebodies number 2 driver, which he has been at Red Bull, and will definitely be at Ferrari.

I can't imagine he'd willingly go from being treated as number 2 in one of the front running teams that at least tries to hide their bias, to be being treated as a number 2 in a team that is not only struggling but openly shows bias to their top driver.

I actually think quite opposite and some how I feel this is not rumor anymore but Webber will replace Massa. Very logical transfer imo.

How come Webber is not enjoying being number 2? his number 2 for ages now (number 3 and lower in championships).

I think Webber should have figure out already what is needed to overtake Seb, Hamilton, Button more often on the track - especially to manage better his working environment, setups, relationships etc. He had Newey's car for years now! I'm a bit disappointed that Seb is doing all this better than him. Unless Seb is simple totally natural talent and can drive what ever however.

That's why he would be perfect to continue doing his thing and enjoy some millions salary for the next 2-3 years at Ferrari backing up Alonso's championship.

I would love to see Webber winning ofcourse, because he is nice lad, but.. yeah maybe he is too modest and working even harder to achieve wins is not priority for his happiness.
Fair enough but not a F1 racing driver attitude imo.

Or am I missing some clear evidence why he is loosing to Seb so much?

Oh I so hate this Ferrari's policy anyway to fancy 1 driver only

[EnterNow]

Originally Posted by freestyla

Or am I missing some clear evidence why he is loosing to Seb so much?

He was racing against a better driver, in the best car on the track. Simple. I rate Webber quite highly, I just think Vettel has the edge over him. He also gets a bad run of luck from time to time, & then you've team orders etc to contend with now so he's not doing as 'badly' as is being made out.

[rua1972]

I read an article about Webber v Vettel in the RB7 (2011 car) To get the blown diffuser working you had to get on the throttle very early. The point of the article was that Vettel did that perfectly while Webber couldn't get it done, because it goes against normal instincts to be on the gas that early. This year Vettel has more problems to go fast since there is no more blown diffusser, which makes it easier for Webber.
Sadly i can't find the article anymore i think it was on autosport.com

[Buttonftw]

I thought it was when off-throttle that it made the most difference?

[LIGHTNING]

Originally Posted by Buttonftw

I thought it was when off-throttle that it made the most difference?

The off-throttle was banned this year.

[astrofluff]

http://dai.ly/JeN4w5

Grosjean's lap in Sakir (FP3) is very sloppy. I don't know why Grosjean and Lotus even posted this on their facebook pages?!

[Buttonftw]

Originally Posted by LIGHTNING

The off-throttle was banned this year.

Exactly, so surely it would be when lifting-off rather than getting on the gas that there's a drop in grip compared to last year?

[Kevski]

Originally Posted by Buttonftw

Exactly, so surely it would be when lifting-off rather than getting on the gas that there's a drop in grip compared to last year?

The majority of the grip came from blowing the diffuser when the throttle was open as more exhaust gases were emitted. Off-throttle blowing generated a lower level of downforce from the diffuser and was introduced so that the reduction in grip wouldn't be as significant when the throttle was closed. So while there is a drop in grip when lifting off, it is much less significant when compared to the drop when getting on the power.

Last year, Vettel's driving style meant that he was able to get on the power (ie open the throttle valve) earlier than Webber was, meaning that the flow of exhaust gases over the diffuser and all it's associated benefits increased sooner for him than it did for Webber. Now that that the position of the exhausts has been regulated it has become a lot more difficult to blow the gases over the diffuser, meaning that Vettel's talent for getting on the power early yields less of an advantage than it did last year. That's part of the reason why Webber has been a lot closer this year and why Vettel has been eager to try different exhaust configurations.

[Jordan 191]

Originally Posted by PJTierney

You did an excellent job on that poster PJ.

[Jordan 191]

Sauber C12 (1993). Concept by Mercedes Benz.



This was the first year Sauber entered F1. Back then the Mercedes engines were built by Ilmor, who also built the engines that powered Mika Hakkinen to his 1998 & 1999 WDC's.

By 1994, it was still 'Concept by Mercedes Benz' on the Sauber C13's engine cover.

The relationship between Sauber & Mercedes was tense in 1994 and was dissolved that year.