[The Cush]

Originally Posted by The Cush

Relay Sites to be added in 2012

• Bandon Cork
• Dingle Kerry
• Glenties Donegal
• Greenore Louth

Green = On-Air (24 May 2011) - 51 sites
Blue = Planned for Oct 2012 - 4 sites

The 4 new DTT sites got a mention in the Dáil last week in a discussion on Saorview coverage

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): [...]

Work has been ongoing across the country to prepare the transmission sites for the move from analogue to digital terrestrial television. However, it is virtually impossible to cover 100% of the population by terrestrial means. Reasons for this include local topography, for example. While cover from a terrestrial network can never reach 100% of the population, RTE is conscious of the needs of communities and is making efforts to ensure areas with larger population centres are provided with the Saorview service. These areas include Glenties, Bandon, Carlingford and Dingle.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/04/25/00019.asp

[The Cush]

Another mention of the 4 new Saorview sites in the Dáil on Tuesday, won't be available until ASO on the 24th Oct.

Work has been ongoing across the country to prepare the transmission sites for the move from analogue to digital terrestrial television. However, it is virtually impossible to cover 100% of the population by terrestrial means. Reasons for this include local topography, for example. RTÉ is conscious of the needs of communities and is making efforts to ensure areas with larger population centres are provided with the Saorview service. To date, RTÉ has committed to improve coverage in the following areas: Glenties, Bandon, Carlingford and Dingle. Coverage improvements in these areas will not be possible until the analogue TV service is switched off.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/20...1/00235.asp#N2

[The Cush]

Originally Posted by The Cush

Relay Sites to be added in 2012

• Bandon Cork
• Dingle Kerry
• Glenties Donegal
• Greenore Louth

Green = On-Air (24 May 2011) - 51 sites
Blue = Planned for Oct 2012 - 4 sites

The date of completion and the channel numbers will be announced in the coming weeks. The frequency allocations will be within the same band as currently used for the analogue channels.

Saorview Tech & Trade
15 hours ago.

RTÉNL have announced that a further four transmitter sites will be upgraded to broadcast SAORVIEW later this year at Bandon, Dingle, Greenore and Glenties.

The date of completion and the channel numbers will be announced in the coming weeks.

The aerials that viewers are currently using in the coverage areas of these sites to receive analogue RTÉ One, RTÉ Two and TG4 will be within the correct band to receive SAORVIEW services from these sites, when they become available.

Watch this space for further details.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Saorvi...29691340422770

[The Cush]

Updated list of DTT sites (thanks to marno21 over in the other thread for the new sites list)

Main Sites

• Cairn Hill Longford 47H
• Clermont Carn Louth 53V
• Dungarvan Waterford 55H
• Holywell Hill Donegal 30H
• Kippure Wicklow 54H
• Maghera Clare 48H
• Mount Leinster Carlow 45H
• Mullaghanish Cork 21H
• Spur Hill Cork 45H
• Three Rock Dublin 54H
• Truskmore Sligo 53H
• Woodcock Hill Clare (Limerick) 47H

Relay/Transposer Sites

• Achill Mayo 47V
• Arklow Wicklow 21V
• Arranmore Donegal 47V
• Ballybofey Donegal 47V
• Bantry Cork 52H&V
• Cahir Tipperary Sth. 28V
• Casla (RnaG) Galway 45V
• Castlebar Mayo 22H
• Castletownbere Kerry 55V
• Clifden Galway 26V
• Clonakilty Cork 48H
• Clonmel Waterford 55H
• Cnoc an Oir Kerry 47V
• Collins Barracks Cork 50V
• Crosshaven Cork 46V
• Dooncarton Belmullet, Mayo 27H&V
• Fanad Donegal 55V
• Fermoy Cork 52V
• Ferrypoint Waterford 47V
• Forth Mountain Wexford 52V
• Gallows Hill (Rathfadden) Waterford (City) 22V
• Glanmire Cork 47H
• Glencolmcille Donegal 45H
• Gorey Wexford 55H
• Greystones Wicklow 52V
• Kilduff Tipperary Nth. 52H
• Kilkeaveragh Kerry 47V
• Kinsale Cork 30V
• Knockmoyle Kerry 52V
• Laragh Wicklow 47H
• Letterkenny Donegal 53V
• Maamclassach Kerry 46V
• Magheraroarty Donegal 22V
• Malin Donegal 28H
• Mitchelstown Cork 40V
• Monaghan (Lugad) Monaghan 55H
• Moville Donegal 45H
• Suir Valley Waterford 52V
• Tonabrocky Galway 26V

Relay Sites to be added in 2012

• Bandon Cork 47H
• Dingle Kerry 30V
• Glenties Donegal 46H
• Greenore Louth 43V
  
• Mount Gabriel Cork ??H & V
• Leap Cork ??H
• Rosscarbery Cork ??H
• Drimoleague Cork ??V
• Timoleague Cork ??V
• Kilmacthomas Waterford ??V
• Ballina/Killaloe Clare ??V
• Ennistymon Clare ??H
• Clonmany Donegal ??V
  
  

Green = On-Air (24 May 2011) - 51 sites
Blue = Planned for Oct 2012 - 13 sites

[To_be_confirmed]

I feel much better about Saorview coverage now that Mt. Gabriel, Kilmacthomas, Rosscarbery and Ennistymon will be added. I'm a little suprised at the addition of Clonmany, it serves a rather small area in Donegal which Malin would be able to partially cover.

[roverdublin]

For the South West it is really great and necessary that Mount Gabriel will be upgraded to DTT.
However, does anybody know when exactly Mount Gabriel will go online with transmitting the Digital Channels?

[The Cush]

Originally Posted by roverdublin

However, does anybody know when exactly Mount Gabriel will go online with transmitting the Digital Channels?

Haven't seen any official dates.

[lawhec]

According to RTÉNL's Saorview coverage checker, Three Rock will be changing from E54 to E30 on the 10th July.

Originally Posted by To_be_confirmed

I'm a little suprised at the addition of Clonmany, it serves a rather small area in Donegal which Malin would be able to partially cover.

Clonmany I understand is in a major coverage hole which has its own analogue relay at present. There was a similar political kerfuffle there as there was in S Cork.

[The Cush]

Originally Posted by lawhec

Clonmany I understand is in a major coverage hole which has its own analogue relay at present. There was a similar political kerfuffle there as there was in S Cork.

There was an article in the local Inishowen Independent and a Dáil question on it last Nov - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...1#post75270971

Originally Posted by lawhec

According to RTÉNL's Saorview coverage checker, Three Rock will be changing from E54 to E30 on the 10th July.

Ch 30 is one its RRC06 allocations, no longer an SFN with Kippure. Moving it away from possible interference from mobile services in the digital dividend spectrum maybe. Easier to move frequencies than try to explain to such a large urban population that they might require a filter on their wideband aerials to eliminate possible interference when services start next year.

Less than 2 weeks to the change of frequency and no public notice, maybe they'll continue with the 2 frequencies for a period of time.

[lawhec]

Originally Posted by The Cush

Ch 30 is one its RRC06 allocations, no longer an SFN with Kippure. Moving it away from possible interference from mobile services in the digital dividend spectrum maybe. Easier to move frequencies than try to explain to such a large urban population that they might require a filter on their wideband aerials to eliminate possible interference when services start next year.

Less than 2 weeks to the change of frequency and no public notice, maybe they'll continue with the 2 frequencies for a period of time.

Surely if there are potential problems with 800Mhz frequencies affecting DVB-T transmissions on Ch 54, then most of the channels in the 50's could be potentially Donald Ducked, not to mention that some currently very high UHF frequencies (66-68) already lie close to GSM 900MHz frequencies anyway. Most concern at least in Britain about interference refers to Ch 60 where the guard band is quite small.

I'm sure RTÉNL are not simply moving frequencies for the sake of it though. The same frequencies were allocated to Three Rock and Kippure IIRC so it might not be impossible to see Kippure move in due course.

[The Cush]

Originally Posted by lawhec

Surely if there are potential problems with 800Mhz frequencies affecting DVB-T transmissions on Ch 54, then most of the channels in the 50's could be potentially Donald Ducked, not to mention that some currently very high UHF frequencies (66-68) already lie close to GSM 900MHz frequencies anyway. Most concern at least in Britain about interference refers to Ch 60 where the guard band is quite small.

I'm sure RTÉNL are not simply moving frequencies for the sake of it though.

During the Comreg Multi-spectrum auction consultation process RTÉ/RTÉNL expressed concerns about interference to DTT down to Ch 52. With the two Three-Rock frequencies (Chs 54/58) within that range and wideband aerials in general use it was the first thing that came to mind when you posted about the change of frequency, of course the reason could be entirely different.

Interference within the range should be easy enough to resolve with a filter/reduced group aerial but there could be the potential for viewer complaints to RTÉ/politicians, politician complaints to RTÉ etc. for the additional cost of resolving interference issues after the initial cost of having to upgrade to Saorview in the first place.

This from that consultation process

RTÉ and RTÉNL have found from a sample of 10 approved SAORVIEW receivers that performance (in terms of interference rejection of adjacent channel DTT signals) is broadly similar to, and as varied as, the samples given by Ofcom, and ECC Report 148. It should also be noted that the n+9 channel performance of some superhetrodyne receivers requires higher protection ratios at channels 52 to 55 (depending on which 800MHz block is in use). For example, several of the SAORVIEW receivers tested demonstrate poorer performance at channel 52 than at channel 59 (and only marginally better than channel 60 in one case), with respect to rejecting an interferer in the first adjacent block above 790MHz. This means that it is not always correct to assume that channels further away from 790MHz will experience less interference.

Studies carried out in the UK (June 2011) identify that channels 52 to 59 may also suffer interference but to a lesser extent than channel 60. Additionally, ComReg notes that the UK study assessed the susceptibility of interference based on the worst-case measured performance of DTT domestic receivers, and therefore the results of this study may overstate the potential issue;

Originally Posted by lawhec

The same frequencies were allocated to Three Rock and Kippure IIRC so it might not be impossible to see Kippure move in due course.

Different frequencies were allocated to Three-Rock and Kippure at RRC-06.

[Sponge Bob]

Interference is likely to be between 800mhz UPLINK frequencies ( return channel from phone to cell) where the PHONE signal is weak. It strikes me that this problem will be more common in rural areas where distances to cells/coverage will be more of an issue and will result in LTE devices upping their transmission power to compensate.

A very good explanation here. http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/bin...LTE-uplink.pdf

I am not saying it did not play a part in Channel 30 being selected at 3Rock seeing as 3Rock is one of the main phone mast complexes in Dublin and was key to 088 coverage back in the day in the 800mhz band. However in the cities there will be a trend towards smaller mobile cells at 1800mhz and 2600mhz frequencies. From the conclusion in the link above.

For the case of continuous LTE UE interference transmission and a weak DTT signal of -70dBm, the minimum protection distance varied from 0.9 meters for the best receiver type to tens of meters for the worst performing receiver. For a stronger DTT signal of -50dBm, the analysis shows that most DTT receivers can operate within 1m of an interfering LTE UE. Some of the receiver types needed more separation, with the worst case receiver requiring a 6.5m separation. With a strong DTT signal of -30dBm, all but one of the receivers (the Can tuner 7 MHz) could operate within 1m of the LTE UE. For both continuous and discontinuous LTE interference transmission, DTT receivers with set top antennas required greater separation from LTE UEs than DTT receivers with roof top antennas. The MCL analysis shows that this is due to the elevation pattern of the DTT antenna, although in practice the walls of the building and height difference would help isolate the DTT antenna from UE interference. Since we assume a worst case of free space path loss and no obstructions for the interfering path, we can expect that roof top DTT receivers may still work well at smaller separation distances than those shown in this report. In this case, the dominant source of LTE interference may be from an alternate leakage between the indoor components, e.g., via the fly lead of the DTT. Such forms of interference have not been considered in this study.

Good quality drop cables from the wall to the TV will mitigate many of these issues....locating the TV socket higher up the wall behind the telly, thereby shielding the cable with the telly itself....would also make sense. Particularly out the country.

Dodgy 4G LTE outdoor 'signal boosters' will most likely be the biggest single problem.

[The Cush]

Originally Posted by Sponge Bob

Dodgy 4G LTE outdoor 'signal boosters' will most likely be the biggest single problem.

... and masthead amplifiers, wideband aerials etc.

Come next year, post ASO - post Comreg auction - post LTE launch, the forum may be busy with interference related problems.

Who'll pay for the public information campaign - RTÉ, Comreg, the Dept? We know the viewer will pay to fix the problem unlike the UK where £180m is avaliable from the government/mobile operators even though Freeview estimate it'll cost in the region of £200m.

[Sponge Bob]

Originally Posted by The Cush

RTÉ, Comreg, the Dept? We know the viewer will pay to fix the problem unlike the UK where £180m is avaliable from the government/mobile operators even though Freeview estimate it'll cost in the region of £200m.

The Irish public will be abandoned to their fate. It will not be RTEs fault and Comreg and the Dept will deny everything!

[The Cush]

Originally Posted by The Cush

Relay Sites to be added in 2012

• Bandon Cork 47H
• Dingle Kerry 30V
• Glenties Donegal 46H
• Greenore Louth 43V
• Mount Gabriel Cork ??H & V
• Leap Cork ??H
• Rosscarbery Cork ??H
• Drimoleague Cork ??V
• Timoleague Cork ??V
• Kilmacthomas Waterford ??V
• Ballina/Killaloe Clare ??V
• Ennistymon Clare ??H
• Clonmany Donegal ??V
  

New sites to be switched on in early Oct

Saorview Tech & Trade
July 02

The RTÉ Transmission Network (RTÉNL) has announced the following sites will be added to the SAORVIEW network. This brings the total number of sites to 64. Currently 51 sites are on the air, with the remaining 13 due to begin broadcasting in early October.

Carlingford, Co. Louth
Bandon, Co. Cork
Dingle, Co. Kerry
Glenties, Co. Donegal
Mount Gabriel, Co. Cork
Rosscarbery, Co. Cork
Leap, Co. Cork
Drimoleague, Co. Cork
Kilmacthomas, Co. Waterford
Clonmany, Co. Donegal
Ennistymon, Co. Clare
Timoleague, Co. Cork
Ballina, Co. Tipperary


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Saorvi...29691340422770