[BrianD]

Originally Posted by 0325422

I agree guards should lead by example it is only right, I would hot disagree with you on that.. I however wouldn't slate a fella for having bald tyres.. How often do you check yours to be fair.. It is often a simple oversight and 99% of the time I would think gardai would use discretion in this case, point out the defect and give a person the opportunity to remedy it.. In the vast majority of cases people only realise there is a problem when it is pointed out by a guard.. Should these people be summonsed to court on each and every occasion, do you think this would do much for the publics relationship with the gardai? There are enough people out there that share your view of the guards without adding to the problem.. What happens When for example if Garda x was investigating a serious incident and carrying out local enquiries and knocks on the door of a fella he has previously summonsed to court for something such as a bald tyre, something which a person may not have been aware of, does this person go out of his way to help the guard by giving him any information he has or does he think to himself 'here's this d@€k head I won't be telling him anything'.

Things are not always black and white.. As for the tax on the car, I don't know the full facts of the case, it could also be the case that the said car was taxed and the new disk either not received or not put in the window.. Discretion is also widely used in this instance also.. In this case the guard was summonsed to court and heavily fined, if this was joe public a ticket could hav been issued and no court appearance.. Just because you don't like gardai does not mean this fella should lose his job, you are however entitled to your opinion.. I'm not going to change that.. Rant over

You are trying to defend the indefensible. Yes, any of one of these items in isolation would not be a big deal and in theory excused away. Not in the case where there are two road fatalities and where there seems to be collection of 'minor items' that really paint a picture of a guy who either thinks he's above the law or just doesn't give a hoot.

In regard to the bald tyres, a Garda should know if a tyre is defective or not, In any case, most people get their car serviced annually so you'd be getting a heads up then.

Plus I don't agree with you about the discretion. I doubt if discretion can be shown in any serious RTA, no matter who you are. I can't see how it can be.

[are you serious]

even when he made the point of a difference of 2mm between legal and not... Really??

[dmg10]

Initally when I read the report, I was outraged like a lot of people but then I was thinking about it based on the facts that were reported.

Anyone else feel sorry for the drivers involved in these kind of accidents when pure stupidity on the side of the pedestrians led to their own death?? It really doesn't matter whether you had a valid insurance or tax cert at the time. You could have had insurance for 10years previously and let it lapse for a month before renewing, it's not a statement about your ability as a driver, tax cert has nothing to do with safety of a car, and let's face it, no tyres no matter good are going to stop you in time in a situation like this where you're faced with two people lying in the middle of the road (unless it was a straight stretch and you weren't looking etc..know nothing about where this in incident took place)....not exactly a situation you ever envisage as a driver now is it?

Years ago on the old Dublin/Cork road near Monasterevin, I had a car tailgating me trying to push his way past and I was keeping to the left of the lane to let the idiot pass. I almost killed a pedestrian who was walking at the side of the road, quite close to the lane, he was literally a flash of black that went past my wing mirror, no lights, no reflector, no bright clothing. Ten years on, that close call still stays with me, as a driver, it would have been my fault, but really, in my book, it would have been the pedestrian's and I would have had to live with it. For all those gunning for this guy to have jail time, was it really his fault that two people were lying in the middle of the road?? And no need to quote 'should be aware and ready to stop at all times' 'expect the unexpected' etc that cuts it in a lot of cases but pretty sure not in all.... If people will do stupid things and all that...

Yes, a Garda shouldn't be without the very things he's enforcing on a daily basis, but that's kind of a separate issue which looks like it's been dealt with on the legal side the same way as any civilian. The fact that he didn't have the documents wouldn't have changed the outcome of the fatalities in any way, would it?

[0325422]

Originally Posted by BrianD

You are trying to defend the indefensible. Yes, any of one of these items in isolation would not be a big deal and in theory excused away. Not in the case where there are two road fatalities and where there seems to be collection of 'minor items' that really paint a picture of a guy who either thinks he's above the law or just doesn't give a hoot.

In regard to the bald tyres, a Garda should know if a tyre is defective or not, In any case, most people get their car serviced annually so you'd be getting a heads up then.

Plus I don't agree with you about the discretion. I doubt if discretion can be shown in any serious RTA, no matter who you are. I can't see how it can be.

And how do you know he didn't have his car serviced 11 months before the accident and not given the heads up.. I hope you dont meet two people fighting on the outside lane of an unlit motorway travelling at 120 km/h.. If this ever happened would you believe you should do some jail time and loose your job?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by 0325422

And how do you know he didn't have his car serviced 11 months before the accident and not given the heads up.. I hope you dont meet two people fighting on the outside lane of an unlit motorway travelling at 120 km/h.. If this ever happened would you believe you should do some jail time and loose your job?

Again you're missing the point entirely. I have no problem in accepting that the incident was unavoidable no matter who was driving or what you were driving.

What I do have a problem with is a law enforcement officer who clearly doesn't give a hoot about the law that he's supposed to be enforcing. I'm also surprised at people who seem to happy to defend this position.

From a public perspective, it completely undermines confidence in the Gardai and all those members who uphold the law in both a private and public capacity.

[mathepac]

Originally Posted by 0325422

And how do you know he didn't have his car serviced 11 months before the accident and not given the heads up..

The fact that his driving documents were out of date and the car wasn't taxed would tend to lead a reasonable person to conclude that servicing his car would not have been a priority matter either. The dangerously bald tyres confirm that notion.

Originally Posted by 0325422

.. I hope you dont meet two people fighting on the outside lane of an unlit motorway travelling at 120 km/h..

A reasonable person, a responsible civilian driver would not drive like that with two bald tyres. The very notion beggars belief. Only an idiot would, let alone a law enforcement officer.

[Terrontress]

Originally Posted by mathepac

The fact that his driving documents were out of date

His supporters have repeated it so often that we are now getting round to thinking his license was out of date but is there anything to suggest that this is the case? Do we know for sure he ever had a proper license?

[mathepac]

Originally Posted by Terrontress

... Do we know for sure he ever had a proper license?

You're right of course. The contemporaneous court reports say "no licence" and I've been brain-washed. Thanks for that.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by dmg10

Anyone else feel sorry for the drivers involved in these kind of accidents when pure stupidity on the side of the pedestrians led to their own death??

Is there any evidence that hte victims were conscious when they arrived at the scene?

It really doesn't matter whether you had a valid insurance or tax cert at the time. You could have had insurance for 10years previously and let it lapse for a month before renewing, it's not a statement about your ability as a driver, tax cert has nothing to do with safety of a car, and let's face it,

It is a statement about your attention to detail and your conscientiousness.

no tyres no matter good are going to stop you in time in a situation like this where you're faced with two people lying in the middle of the road (unless it was a straight stretch and you weren't looking etc..know nothing about where this in incident took place)....

It was a motorway. Somewhere along here: http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=M20,+Gl...234.19,,0,3.95


[QUOTE]Years ago on the old Dublin/Cork road near Monasterevin, I had a car tailgating me trying to push his way past and I was keeping to the left of the lane to let the idiot pass. I almost killed a pedestrian who was walking at the side of the road, quite close to the lane, he was literally a flash of black that went past my wing mirror, no lights, no reflector, no bright clothing. Ten years on, that close call still stays with me, as a driver, it would have been my fault, but really, in my book, it would have been the pedestrian's and I would have had to live with it. [QUOTE]Eh, and the pedestrian would have died. Are you saying you had no ability to see in front of you?

And no need to quote 'should be aware and ready to stop at all times' 'expect the unexpected' etc

Why not?

Yes, a Garda shouldn't be without the very things he's enforcing on a daily basis, but that's kind of a separate issue which looks like it's been dealt with on the legal side the same way as any civilian.

Why is it that it is pointed out that, as he was not at work, he should be treated as a civilian, but when a garda's private car is lashed up on the foot path / double parked outside a garda station, that is work-related?