[Pedant]

Originally Posted by fran17

yes but the paralympics or special olympics are not related to a lifestyle choice

Homosexuality isn't a lifestyle or a choice.

[Bannasidhe]

Originally Posted by fran17

yes but the paralympics or special olympics are not related to a lifestyle choice

I was born Gay.
I was also born blind.
No-one gave me a choice.

[Siuin]

Originally Posted by Bannasidhe

I was born Gay.
I was also born blind.
No-one gave me a choice.

Just out of curiosity... how are you reading this thread and writing responses?

[Nodin]

Originally Posted by fran17

wow saying that marriage and religion are in no way linked really has me stumped,maybe there trying to preserve over 2000 years years of civilisation...and just because someone dont agree with your opinion dont make them an idiot

Before I get started - just to clarify - are you saying that "2000 years of civilisation" will be destroyed by persons of the same gender getting married?

[Bannasidhe]

Originally Posted by fran17

the catholic church in ireland was,is and always will be against gay marriage.fact.if its not something you will ever accept theres lots of other churches in this big old world...

The Catholic Church is free to be for and against what it likes. But, I don't live in the Vatican - I live in Ireland which is not controlled by the Catholic Church - no matter how much it wants it to be.

[Bannasidhe]

Originally Posted by Siuin

Just out of curiosity... how are you reading this thread and writing responses?

Medical science is a wonderful thing.

[Pedant]

Originally Posted by Siuin

Just out of curiosity... how are you reading this thread and writing responses?

Oh ye of little faith.

[Min]

Originally Posted by Corkfeen

I'm not Catholic and you seem to have missed the point entirely. Marriage is a legal contract so should allow gay people to marry. Religions have absolutely no right to prevent same sex couples from legally marrying. a matter of equality.

You say marriage is a legal contract, but for many people the church part is far more important and significant than the state part where one just signs a bit of paper.

I am not married but if and when I do get married, the church part will be the only part that matters, if I went to a registry office and nothing else then I wouldn't consider myself married.

[Pedant]

Originally Posted by Min

You say marriage is a legal contract, but for many people the church part is far more important and significant than the state part where one just signs a bit of paper.

That's completely irrelevant to those who don't want to have anything to do with the church. Can an atheist get married?

Originally Posted by Min

I am not married but if and when I do get married, the church part will be the only part that matters, if I went to a registry office and nothing else then I wouldn't consider myself married.

That's entirely your choice and your belief. Nothing is stopping you from doing that.

[Sonics2k]

Originally Posted by Min

You say marriage is a legal contract, but for many people the church part is far more important and significant than the state part where one just signs a bit of paper.

I am not married but if and when I do get married, the church part will be the only part that matters, if I went to a registry office and nothing else then I wouldn't consider myself married.

Well that's fine for you, and that will never change, and that's great and your right as a citizen of this country.

But all those gay couples who do want to get 'married' is the exact same legal rights as you would have. How is this a bad thing?

It just means they can leave things to eachother when one passes away, just like I could should I ever get married. It means they can get a proper mortgage together.

The problem here is that the word 'marriage' is viewed differently by the two different sides. To the Christians (mainly) it is viewed as a religious only ceremony, but to most others it's simply viewed as a very special, but legally binding joining between a couple.

The definition will not change, the world will not collapse around us, and life will continue as normal. The only thing that will change is that we can say we treat people equally here in Ireland, and again, how is this a bad thing?

[Nodin]

Originally Posted by Min

You say marriage is a legal contract, but for many people the church part is far more important and significant than the state part where one just signs a bit of paper.

I am not married but if and when I do get married, the church part will be the only part that matters, if I went to a registry office and nothing else then I wouldn't consider myself married.

Thats your own business. However perhaps you should bear in mind that for most of the churches history (roughly 2/3rds), it didn't have such a ceremony.

[Min]

Originally Posted by Pedant

That's completely irrelevant to those who don't want to have anything to do with the church. Can an atheist get married?



That's entirely your choice and your belief. Nothing is stopping you from doing that.

It depends what you recognise as marriage.

[Pedant]

Originally Posted by Min

It depends what you recognise as marriage.

And what you recognise as marriage is entirely your own business.

[Bannasidhe]

Originally Posted by Min

You say marriage is a legal contract, but for many people the church part is far more important and significant than the state part where one just signs a bit of paper.

I am not married but if and when I do get married, the church part will be the only part that matters, if I went to a registry office and nothing else then I wouldn't consider myself married.

A legal contract is exactly what it is. You are talking about a religious ceremony that sometimes occurs during the signing of that contract and sometimes doesn't. The religious aspect has no baring on the actual contract. The contract is still valid with or without any religious fol-do-rol taking place.

Do you believe that heterosexual civil marriages are not valid when they take place in a hotel before invited guests and are performed by a registrar?

What about those who marry in Mosques or synagogues - is their marriage not valid?

[GarIT]

I think its so ridiculous that there is not gay civil partnerships. It discriminates against gay people for no reason. If the churches don't want them just don't let them into the churches.

The only slight problem is that the English word marriage means a union between a man and a woman. No matter what laws are change it is physically impossible for two men or two women to be married because they are not one man or one woman.

The word marriage in itself discriminates. Marriage by definition involves a man and a woman. Two men saying they are married is just as impossible as Myself (a male) saying I have homosexual feelings for my girlfriend. I could have homosexual feeling for a girlfriend because she would not be male. Equally two men can't be married. If two men say they want to be married. That means they are saying they want to be a man and a woman in a union. It just cant happen because of the meaning of the word marriage.

Because of that I don't think we should have marriage at all as a state in Ireland. Marriage should be kept to the church and not outside of it. For any couple to be reconsigned by the state as a couple there should be one idea called legal partnership and anyone should be able to avail of it with full equal rights for everything. Marriage should not be something that is state recognised.