[Markdub2000]

Originally Posted by smccarrick

Just to clarify- the minimum wage in Spain is Euro6 per hour- with a monthly minimum payment of Euro 633.33 (they get 14 monthly payments- which equals the minimum wage). The starting pay for vodafone employees who are on an hourly rate (most aren't) is Euro 10 per hour.

France- yes, 40k isn't an unusual salary for an engineer- however they actually have a free public health system that works, and when they're not on strike, a very good inexpensive public transport system.

We have priced ourselves out of existence- and yet another tax isn't helping matters- we need to redesign this country from the bottom up.........

I beg to differ - my girlfriend worked in vodafone Valencia for 1.35 an hour - I thought it was slave labour to be honest - 35k a year for engineering was considered a fantastic rate - the charges both movistar and vodafone levied on there customers there were as expensive as the networks here.

I recently heard two m&s employees talking about the refund of the USC - people here are being paid a pittance too. Yet they are one of the most expensive stores that operate here.

You cannot drive down the costs and salaries without devastating a particular section of society

[markpb]

Originally Posted by Markdub2000

I recently heard two m&s employees talking about the refund of the USC - people here are being paid a pittance too. Yet they are one of the most expensive stores that operate here.

Is it not likely that they were working less than 35 hours a week?

[Markdub2000]

Unlike Europe most Irish are educated to a high standard, salaries must reflect that, I certainly didn't bring 3 kids up to have them work in mcdonalds - I like most parents didn't spend 50k on degree courses for them to work for 30k a year - our salaries must reflect what we are - a first world nation - if u want to go backward move elsewhere

[Markdub2000]

Originally Posted by markpb

Is it not likely that they were working less than 35 hours a week?

I doubt it she was talking about a 9 hour shift she had to do the following day - 6am to 3pm - I felt so sorry for them they were in their mid 40s what chance have they got

So if ur nostalgic about 1990's pay put on ur pastel jumper and go sit on a dole queue - you'll feel right at home....

We are a consumer driven society, bar this week, most people depend on shops, bars and indoor activities for entertainment... unlike most of Europe we don't get a significant summer

It is external forces that drive the cost of living here now - a cinema ticket in Spain costs 5.25 - Liffey valley is up on 12 euros --- why is this so?

Hollywood know they can charge different rates for different markets - I saw it on one of their press conferences !!!
U can rent two new movies for 2 euro a night in France - but here it's 8.50 - I dont think the rates have ever been as low as the price in Europe - even since we got a video first in 1982 I think they've been above a pound...
The problem is the euro - it's just not suitable for this country - we must have our own currency or the GBP or the dollar

[Giblet]

Originally Posted by Markdub2000

Unlike Europe most Irish are educated to a high standard, salaries must reflect that, I certainly didn't bring 3 kids up to have them work in mcdonalds - I like most parents didn't spend 50k on degree courses for them to work for 30k a year - our salaries must reflect what we are - a first world nation - if u want to go backward move elsewhere

Our salaries must reflect what we are, a country which owes more than it makes.

[Markdub2000]

Originally Posted by Giblet

Our salaries must reflect what we are, a country which owes more than it makes.

Then the cuts need to be made by the sections that have borrowed - we seem to be able to afford public bikes,

[Giblet]

And these cuts will hit every sector, less people will be required and less demands on services provided by private sectors, as well as more demand for those jobs. Driving salaries down. Simple really, you are owed nothing, degree or not.

[true]

Originally Posted by Markdub2000

Unlike Europe most Irish are educated to a high standard, salaries must reflect that

Originally Posted by Markdub2000

I certainly didn't bring 3 kids up to have them work in mcdonalds

I would say most McDonalds workers in Europe can speak more modern languages than most young adults in Ireland. We are not a superior race of educated geniuses who can afford to import all our workers for our service industries.

Originally Posted by Giblet

Our salaries must reflect what we are, a country which owes more than it makes.

+1. The countries bailing us out have lower salaries than the shower running us.

To get back to the OP, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. I would take anything RTE or the government says with a pinch of salt.

[Blackjack]

Originally Posted by Figerty

Nonsense, You paid stamp duty as a transaction tax not as value added tax... you paid that in the materials... have you looked at the stamp duty in the UK and the legalities were fixed fee not a percentage of the purchase price.

Anyone who built in the country side paid the local development levy about 3-4000 euros.

Jan O'Sullivan gets €17,000 extra to sit at meetings she cant vote at. That is 1700 home oweners paying 100 euros to have her sit at meetings.

Bertie gets €3000 a week on a pension. That is 15000 householders paying €100 per year for a man that isn't even retirement age.

We pay road tax to service the roads and services and tax on fuels
We pay VAT on everything
We paye PRSI to cover health
We pay tax on earnings to cover the rest.

Pay the tax to prop up the system if you wish. I'm not paying it untill they trim the fat and get real. Phil Hogan preeching to us isn't going to change our minds when the same fella blurted the budget details before the finance minister had the chance to. He can't be trusted.

If you are foolish enough to believe that it will stay at 100 euros then away you go. You don't need to pay it, you think you do because of the rubbish you have been fed.

You forget we pay tax to pay social welfare and house the 14% unemployed also.

I don't believe it's going to stay at 100 euros but as I already pointed out you would pay at least 100 pounds a month in the uk which goes to fund local services - fire, police, council services etc

I have no doubt that the areas that have the highest number who refuse to pay will be the most vocal of all should their local services start to deteriorate.

[The_Conductor]

Originally Posted by Markdub2000

I beg to differ - my girlfriend worked in vodafone Valencia for 1.35 an hour - I thought it was slave labour to be honest - 35k a year for engineering was considered a fantastic rate - the charges both movistar and vodafone levied on there customers there were as expensive as the networks here.

I recently heard two m&s employees talking about the refund of the USC - people here are being paid a pittance too. Yet they are one of the most expensive stores that operate here.

You cannot drive down the costs and salaries without devastating a particular section of society

The minimum wage I quoted is accurate- I pulled it from one of their government websites. It may be that she was not an employee- but was engaged in some sort of promotion work? 14 monthly paychecks per annum of a minimum of 633.33 is the official minimum wage in Spain.

People are paid a pittance here- when deductions are taken into account- though their gross salaries may appear incredibly generous. I'm in a good job myself- yet, I would be slightly better off on social welfare (and have been informed I qualify for a free GP visit card by the local public health nurse).

Our country is in a mess- and the piecemeal changes we are half heartedly implementing are making matters worse- we need a thorough overhaul.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Markdub2000

If you sell an item in a shop for 100 euro, 23 euro of that goes in VAT straight off, 25 euro goes in tax due to rates, vat on electricity and gas supplies to the building
Of that 25 euro goes to the wages, 8 of that is paid in prsi, income tax, universal social charge.
This doesn't include tax on the fuel spent collecting the items from the warehouse, waste charges, etc etc

So for every item a shop sells nearly 70% goes to the government is some form of tax or another

And here is the crux of the matter - a basic lack of numeracy.

23% + 25% (gross exaggeration) + 8% = 56%, which isn't "nearly 70%".

Excluding appropriations-in-aid, in 2012 the government will take €39.9 billion in taxes (expenditure €61.5 billion). GNP will be €159 billion (GDP €129 billion), that is 25-31%, not "nearly 70%".

http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2012/Do...ber%202012.pdf

http://budget.gov.ie/budgets/2012/Do...%20Outlook.pdf

[Twiki]

For what it's worth, 18.7% of an item's selling price goes in VAT (at top rate).