Interesting Public Sector comparison with NI - Page 6 - boards.ie
Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
30-03-2012, 14:38   #76
n97 mini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,955
The cost per capita of running this country is greater than the UK.

For example, we have the most roads per capita in Europe (due to daft housing policies). Those roads are maintained out of the public purse.

The UK has 6km of road per person. We have 24km of road per person.
n97 mini is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
30-03-2012, 15:31   #77
ardmacha
Registered User
 
ardmacha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,960
Quote:
The cost per capita of running this country is greater than the UK.
It may well be. Does it have to be?

Quote:
For example, we have the most roads per capita in Europe (due to daft housing policies).
The number of roads has nothing to do with modern housing policies. These roads came into place in the 18th and 19th centuries when the British were here. Britain is an uncommonly densely populated place.
ardmacha is offline  
30-03-2012, 16:13   #78
n97 mini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardmacha View Post
The number of roads has nothing to do with modern housing policies.
Not true. Roads that have housing built along them need to be kept maintained, but local authorities do not use the fact that in some cases there is no existing housing to refuse planning permission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardmacha View Post
These roads came into place in the 18th and 19th centuries when the British were here. Britain is an uncommonly densely populated place.
That's not true either. A sizeable number of country roads were animal tracks.
n97 mini is offline  
30-03-2012, 16:47   #79
Godge
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dublin 15, 200ft asl
Posts: 7,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by n97 mini View Post
The cost per capita of running this country is greater than the UK.

For example, we have the most roads per capita in Europe (due to daft housing policies). Those roads are maintained out of the public purse.

The UK has 6km of road per person. We have 24km of road per person.
Do you have any evidence to back up this bit in bold? Other than anecdotal.

If you do have such evidence, have you taken into account the following:

- the relative services provided in both states
- the relative % of children in education
- the relative expenditure on defence
- the relative age of the population (very young and very old need more health care)
- the relative % size of the welfare dependent population
- the relative social welfare rates
- the relative direct grants provided by central government
-the relative savings in terms of scale

Once you have either allowed for the differences in service requirements caused by the above, only then can you say that the costs per capita of running this country is greater than the UK. It would be quite a comprehensive study and I would be interested in reading it so maybe you could provide a link.
Godge is offline  
30-03-2012, 18:18   #80
n97 mini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,955
2011 UK gross govt expenditure was £638bn (approx €760bn) for a population of 62m, or about €12,300 per person.

Irish gross expenditure was €69bn for a population of about 4.3m, or €16,000 per person.
n97 mini is offline  
Advertisement
30-03-2012, 20:58   #81
ardmacha
Registered User
 
ardmacha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,960
Quote:
2011 UK gross govt expenditure was £638bn (approx €760bn) for a population of 62m, or about €12,300 per person.

Irish gross expenditure was €69bn for a population of about 4.3m, or €16,000 per person.
Totals such as this are not very informative. The devil is in the detail.
The problem is that there has been very very little proper analysis done. n97 mini's mention of roads per person is going in the right direction, but as Godge days you need to look at things like relative % of children in education and not just total expenditures.

Likewise the cost of things needs analysis and not just headline figures.
ardmacha is offline  
30-03-2012, 21:42   #82
n97 mini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,955
Regardless of what the heads of expenditure are, a country that spends €16k per person vs a country that spends €12k per person, costs more per capita. It's a statement of fact.

The reasons why Ireland costs around a third more than the UK to run are worth exploring, but it's likely that we spend more per head on everything, roads, health, salaries, etc. Certainly any comparison I have made (possibly with the exception of military expenditure) we spend more.
n97 mini is offline  
(2) thanks from:
01-04-2012, 02:10   #83
Ulysses1874
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by n97 mini View Post
2011 UK gross govt expenditure was £638bn (approx €760bn) for a population of 62m, or about €12,300 per person.

Irish gross expenditure was €69bn for a population of about 4.3m, or €16,000 per person.
UK budgeted Government spending for the year from 1 April 2012 to 31 March 2013 is £683 billion, or €819.6 billion at current exchange rates, for a population of 63 million (2010 estimate plus a little for population growth), or about €12,900 per person.

Irish budgeted Government spending for the nearest equivalent period, i.e. calendar year 2012, is €61.5 billion for a population of 4.59 million (2011 Census figure), or about €13,400 per person.

If you exclude Defence spending, which is only reasonable given that the UK has major global military commitments by comparison to Ireland, the UK figure for Government spending per capita is about €12,200 per person, while the Irish figure is about €13,200. So the difference is about 8.5%.

UK source:

http://cdn.hm-treasury.gov.uk/budget2012_complete.pdf

Ireland sources:

http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2012/Do...ber%202012.pdf

http://www.budget.gov.ie/budgets/201...es%20Final.pdf
Ulysses1874 is offline  
Thanks from:
01-04-2012, 03:25   #84
barneystinson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,861
Quote:
Originally Posted by n97 mini View Post
The cost per capita of running this country is greater than the UK.

For example, we have the most roads per capita in Europe (due to daft housing policies). Those roads are maintained out of the public purse.

The UK has 6km of road per person. We have 24km of road per person.
The population density of the UK is 255/sq. km.
The population density of Ireland is 65/sq. km.
That's a factor of 4, the same as 24km:6km.

It's hard to decipher what your vision for Ireland's infrastructure is, in your ideal world - plenty of roads in / around urban centres, intercity motorways, and vast swathes of inaccessible countryside, where this is the norm... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE...?!
barneystinson is offline  
Advertisement
01-04-2012, 10:44   #85
n97 mini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by barneystinson View Post
It's hard to decipher what your vision for Ireland's infrastructure is,
I'm not an infrastructure planner so I don't have a vision. I'm in favour of sustainability through good planning.

David McWilliams first wrote about the issue in 2005.
n97 mini is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet