[batm!ke]

^^^ +1

I see what people are saying about Boreanaz not being a great actor, but I thought it added to the fact that Angel was socially awkward so it seems a perfect fit. Himself and Buffy had great chemistry in the early days. I switched my allegiance from Buffy (show) to Angel (show) when Angel started.

Thought 'City of' (Pilot) episode was a great start. Buffy went downhill after
1) Angel left
2) Giles took a back seat when they went to college
3) her Mother passed (which was v. well acted to be fair)
4) Spike became a whipped b*tch
5) and worst of all... Dawn appeared. That ruined the show for me.

While all that was going on Angel was going from strength to strength. It wasn't without it's faults obviously but IMO it was superior to Buffy as the two shows came to a close. I should say I still loved both shows!

[Nervous Wreck]

Riley was the worst character ever. Followed by Warren.

[nyarlothothep]

Originally Posted by Nervous Wreck

Riley was the worst character ever. Followed by Warren.

What?!

[Skinfull]

Originally Posted by nix

Its what Joss is renound for doing though, building up a character and then killing them, he has killed off far bigger characters than Miss Calender (Spoiler: the slayer girl, forget her name, Fred, Wes, Lilah, Doyle, Darla, Cordelia, Lindsey etc) Frankly i didn't really think much of her and found her relationship with Giles forced and unconvincing.

I like the fact that he kills key cast members, makes for more suspenseful watching, as you know they might well just die. How many TV shows have an invincible cast? and even in suspenseful moments you know they aren't going to die.

But Spoiler: Cordelia and Doyle were not killed off because their characters/stories deemed it to be so, but because their real life counterparts brought too much bad light to the show, more specifically, A sex tape and a notoriously bad drug habit, respectively.

I love Angel. The first few seasons are great. What made the show a bore was the kid. The baby / conor bull**** arc annoyed the hell outta me, and then Conor and Cordelia? That was just plain wrong!!

[Nervous Wreck]

Originally Posted by Skinfull

But Spoiler: Cordelia and Doyle were not killed off because their characters/stories deemed it to be so, but because their real life counterparts brought too much bad light to the show, more specifically, A sex tape and a notoriously bad drug habit, respectively.

I don't believe either of those things to be true. For Doyle, it was a plan from early on to kill him off.

""That was always a plan, and clearly that character didn't mesh. He was a very popular character, but the mesh was very difficult in ways that made it hard to write. Glenn had a kind of intensity that was kind of like David [Boreanaz's], and David already has that. It could have gone a different way, but that was the plan we had and we decided to execute it. Glenn Quinn knew that it was an issue and he learned pretty early on. I said this is what we're going to do...' and I promised him a hero's exit.""

Later, Whedon was noted as saying he planned to reintroduce him but Quinn died before that happened.


Also, with Cordelia, Whedon apparently said that he dropped Cordelia as there was "nothing left" for her to do. He was also reportedly fairly pissed off that CC got pregnant in the first place....



But.......... sex tape, you say?!

[Nervous Wreck]

Originally Posted by nyarlothothep

What?!

Warren was not believable as a villain (of any sort) and Riley wasn't even believable as a real human being most of the time.

[nix]

I second that, and also too, sex tape???

[Skinfull]

Seriously? No one saw the sex tape?!
Should I be looking for the torrent link?


Well consider it sordid with ejaculation and face shots and stuff!

And as for Doyle... he was just uncontrollable... seriously... how do you guys not know this?! Have you been introduced to this show after the fact? I mean we watched week to week and without Internet and we still knew what was going on!!!

[nix]

Everywhere im looking on the net tends to confirm Joss had always planned to kill him and being fired for drugs is bull****.

If he was such a thorn in Joss's side with his drug problems i doubt Joss would have made reference to him in any of the other seasons, or dedicated an episode in his memory.

I watched Angel in real time and never heard of his drug problems till after he OD'd..

Also was it Cordelia or Doyle in this sex tape?

[nyarlothothep]

Originally Posted by Nervous Wreck

Warren was not believable as a villain (of any sort) and Riley wasn't even believable as a real human being most of the time.

No, I think Warren was a very accurate representation of the engineer personality type but evil. He had that kind of forward planning thinking combined with a sarcastic wit. I thought he was believable and a good demonstration of how a villain can get be ordinary yet with pure intelligence as opposed to strength/social influence. I mean if we're talking about unbelievable villains we might as well include the Master from season 1. Riley was believable I think, I've met people like Riley, composed, affable, high achievers. For example there was one episode of Big Bang Theory (a show I no longer like), where Penny goes out with a genius physicist who is the ultimate popular guy, defying every physics stereotype. Initially I thought, ffs come on, but then I remembered how I've met scientists who fit that description exactly, they're rare of course, most physicists don't match that criteria.

[batm!ke]

Originally Posted by Skinfull

Seriously? No one saw the sex tape?!
Should I be looking for the torrent link?


Well consider it sordid with ejaculation and face shots and stuff!

And as for Doyle... he was just uncontrollable... seriously... how do you guys not know this?! Have you been introduced to this show after the fact? I mean we watched week to week and without Internet and we still knew what was going on!!!

Yes. Yes you should

[Art_Wolf]

*shudders*

[Nervous Wreck]

I think you've misunderstood what I meant.

Originally Posted by nyarlothothep

No, I think Warren was a very accurate representation of the engineer personality type but evil. He had that kind of forward planning thinking combined with a sarcastic wit. I thought he was believable and a good demonstration of how a villain can get be ordinary yet with pure intelligence as opposed to strength/social influence.

Warren was believable as a person, sure, but not as a villain. I never once believed he posed any sort of threat to Buffy and her mates. The trio were more of a joke than anything. The dude who played Warren did a good job of it though.

Originally Posted by nyarlothothep

Riley was believable I think, I've met people like Riley, composed, affable, high achievers.

Riley was poorly written. Confident and bumbling all at once and terribly acted. They didn't seem to know what to do with him or how to write him. Even when they tried to make him dark, he just came across as lame. I'd like to say a better actor could have pulled it off but I think that'd still be a bit optimistic.

[nyarlothothep]

Originally Posted by Nervous Wreck

I think you've misunderstood what I meant.



Warren was believable as a person, sure, but not as a villain. I never once believed he posed any sort of threat to Buffy and her mates. The trio were more of a joke than anything. The dude who played Warren did a good job of it though.




Riley was poorly written. Confident and bumbling all at once and terribly acted. They didn't seem to know what to do with him or how to write him. Even when they tried to make him dark, he just came across as lame. I'd like to say a better actor could have pulled it off but I think that'd still be a bit optimistic.

Ah, in that case yes, the trio were amateurs but the show never pretended otherwise. When Warren walks into the vampire bar the other customers are indifferent or don't know about his exploits. They weren't villains so much as a metaphor for how they were still stuck in a Sunnydale high past while Buffy etc were getting on with their lives. Season 6 is an odd one because it wasn't so much about a big bad as about the protagonists fighting their own demons eg Willow, Buffy, Spike etc.

Riley, well yeah, everything about him was a bit lame but I found that he was a more likeable character than Angel and therefore a worthy addition to the cast.

[Mr.Nice Guy]

I thought Riley sucked. Loved the episode where Angel destroyed him.