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oterra · 21-03-2012, 13:45

Hi all,
I am looking for some sound advice in a very tricky position. I work in a small city centre graphics business.Things are tough as you all know. I have taken 3-4 pay cuts, I'm on a 4 day week and just heard another pay cut is on the way. Recently I have seen an excel spread sheet with cash transactions for the past few years. I have noticed that their mother, the girls I work for, Is receiving €2300 cash per month, the father has a company credit card with a monthly limit of €700. They dont work for the company at all. I was originally a partner in the business up to 2 years ago but was forced out quite bizzarly. It was easier for me to walk away and stay on as an employee.

I have heard from a reliable source that the mother minds one of the partners children and is been paid the cash from the company for this.
I dont know what to do as I need the job. Should i spill the beans or just let them getaway with it. Forgot to say that one of my colleagues was let go last year and then the mother started to receive payment.
My gut feeling is to talk to someone but my head is holding me back because of the lack of employment out there.
Please advise!!

Gloomtastic! · 21-03-2012, 18:26

It's their company I'm afraid, they can pay whoever they like, whatever they like. They would have to show invoices or receipts for all outgoings.

However, if they are going to go bust and you were a former partner in the business, then unless you have proper paperwork to show you are no longer liable for any of the company's losses, you may be in trouble also.

sligoface · 21-03-2012, 18:46

i wonder why she is getting paid cash if she is on the spreadsheet. possible fraud unless the mother is an employee, esp if the mother claims jsb or ja. send a note or ring the social welfare office, it's anonymous and if the mother is getting paid cash on top of benefits it is fraud and should be reported. the have links/numbers on the the welfare site.

oterra · 21-03-2012, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gloomtastic!

It's their company I'm afraid, they can pay whoever they like, whatever they like. They would have to show invoices or receipts for all outgoings.

However, if they are going to go bust and you were a former partner in the business, then unless you have proper paperwork to show you are no longer liable for any of the company's losses, you may be in trouble also.

I'm afraid they can't do what they like. The money that is been paid out is cash that comes in the "not declared" kind. No vat paid on it. They also pay some of their wages with this. The only record is a spread sheet hidden under an unassuming name.
My own shares were written off 3 years ago an I am a paye employee. No ties anymore.

*unnameduser* · 22-03-2012, 00:18

Quite often a director/owner is being paid so much that any more is a waste of time as most goes on tax. To pay a family member might be more tax efficient if they simply hand over the tax. quite often its a non working family member / mother / father / retired etc. Not to mention fictional employee.

Other times it is good to boost the payroll numbers should you want to make the company seem bigger than it is if you wanted to sell it.

I won't comment on the legalities or moral side of things but these things happen regularly.

Bad news is that you know things dont look too good. Best of luck to you OP.

barneystinson · 22-03-2012, 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by oterra

I'm afraid they can't do what they like. The money that is been paid out is cash that comes in the "not declared" kind. No vat paid on it. They also pay some of their wages with this. The only record is a spread sheet hidden under an unassuming name.
My own shares were written off 3 years ago an I am a paye employee. No ties anymore.

OP, it's quite simple, you need to put up or shut up. Either send an anonymous letter outlining your concerns, to the company's local tax office, or do your best to forget all about it. The company can't be doing too badly if it's got the scope to siphon off that much cash, and if they get burned by the taxman it may even benefit the straight side of the business...

Nuttzz · 22-03-2012, 09:52

If you do report this and the company has to close where does this leave you? Will you pick up work easily elsewhere?

Perhaps you'd be better off getting another job if you can or resisting the next pay cut based on this information. Also you have no idea of the tax position of mother or father either, they could be declaring this on their own tax returns

Hammertime · 22-03-2012, 11:35

They own the company they can do whatever they like once they are prepared to face the consequences if they are caught.

You seem to be looking for validation here for you to report them and to extract some kind of revenge.

oterra · 22-03-2012, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammertime

They own the company they can do whatever they like once they are prepared to face the consequences if they are caught.

You seem to be looking for validation here for you to report them and to extract some kind of revenge.

I'm not seeking any revenge here at all. I just want whats right. I know these people and the way they operate and its not a sight for sore eyes.I am just looking for advice. I have 2 young children and have no intention of walking out of the job.But when you are asked by your boss what the lowest amount of money you can live off is, something don't seem right!

CompanyBureau · 22-03-2012, 13:56

Be straight and honest with them and say that you are not happy with or prepared to take another paycut as the company is doing well enough to pay 'staff' that don't even work for the company. Be diplomatic on this point of course...

rubberdiddies · 22-03-2012, 14:47

maybe the Mother gave a loan to the business and is being paid back monthly this way.

No VAT is payable on this, no paperwork is strictly necessary and the Mother doesnt have to pay any tax on it, unless the amount she recieves is more than the amount she gave (ie: interest)

NJS007 · 23-03-2012, 09:00

I would say nothing as it wonat get you anywhere. As mentioned it is their comapny and they can pay who they want, and in reality it is none of your business.

If you are not happy in your current position and especially with the pending paycut, i would seriously consider searching elsewhere for a job or maybe set up your own designing on your days off and weekends....

Buy a domain name, create a website and put posts anywhere you can think of looking for work....

fasttalkerchat · 23-03-2012, 16:45

Start applying for other jobs in case hey sink themselves. If you have another option you could make a few demands. If not you have no choice but to say nothing and hold onto the job until you find something else.

21-03-2012, 13:45	#1
oterra Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: dublin,firhouse,95m asl Posts: 213 Adverts \| Friends	Shocking business practice Hi all, I am looking for some sound advice in a very tricky position. I work in a small city centre graphics business.Things are tough as you all know. I have taken 3-4 pay cuts, I'm on a 4 day week and just heard another pay cut is on the way. Recently I have seen an excel spread sheet with cash transactions for the past few years. I have noticed that their mother, the girls I work for, Is receiving €2300 cash per month, the father has a company credit card with a monthly limit of €700. They dont work for the company at all. I was originally a partner in the business up to 2 years ago but was forced out quite bizzarly. It was easier for me to walk away and stay on as an employee. I have heard from a reliable source that the mother minds one of the partners children and is been paid the cash from the company for this. I dont know what to do as I need the job. Should i spill the beans or just let them getaway with it. Forgot to say that one of my colleagues was let go last year and then the mother started to receive payment. My gut feeling is to talk to someone but my head is holding me back because of the lack of employment out there. Please advise!!

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21-03-2012, 18:26	#2
Gloomtastic! Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 947 Adverts \| Friends	It's their company I'm afraid, they can pay whoever they like, whatever they like. They would have to show invoices or receipts for all outgoings. However, if they are going to go bust and you were a former partner in the business, then unless you have proper paperwork to show you are no longer liable for any of the company's losses, you may be in trouble also.

21-03-2012, 18:46	#3
sligoface Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 156 Adverts \| Friends	i wonder why she is getting paid cash if she is on the spreadsheet. possible fraud unless the mother is an employee, esp if the mother claims jsb or ja. send a note or ring the social welfare office, it's anonymous and if the mother is getting paid cash on top of benefits it is fraud and should be reported. the have links/numbers on the the welfare site.

22-03-2012, 00:18	#5
unnameduser Tinkering with Computers since 1883 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Limerick \| Tipperary Posts: 1,050 Adverts \| Friends	Quite often a director/owner is being paid so much that any more is a waste of time as most goes on tax. To pay a family member might be more tax efficient if they simply hand over the tax. quite often its a non working family member / mother / father / retired etc. Not to mention fictional employee. Other times it is good to boost the payroll numbers should you want to make the company seem bigger than it is if you wanted to sell it. I won't comment on the legalities or moral side of things but these things happen regularly. Bad news is that you know things dont look too good. Best of luck to you OP.

22-03-2012, 09:52	#7
Nuttzz Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Looney bin Posts: 3,133 Adverts \| Friends	If you do report this and the company has to close where does this leave you? Will you pick up work easily elsewhere? Perhaps you'd be better off getting another job if you can or resisting the next pay cut based on this information. Also you have no idea of the tax position of mother or father either, they could be declaring this on their own tax returns

22-03-2012, 11:35	#8
Hammertime Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,332 Adverts \| Friends	They own the company they can do whatever they like once they are prepared to face the consequences if they are caught. You seem to be looking for validation here for you to report them and to extract some kind of revenge.

22-03-2012, 13:56	#10
CompanyBureau Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dublin Posts: 88 Adverts \| Friends	Be straight and honest with them and say that you are not happy with or prepared to take another paycut as the company is doing well enough to pay 'staff' that don't even work for the company. Be diplomatic on this point of course...

22-03-2012, 14:47	#11
rubberdiddies Registered User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 332 Adverts \| Friends	maybe the Mother gave a loan to the business and is being paid back monthly this way. No VAT is payable on this, no paperwork is strictly necessary and the Mother doesnt have to pay any tax on it, unless the amount she recieves is more than the amount she gave (ie: interest)

23-03-2012, 09:00	#12
NJS007 Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 91 Adverts \| Friends	I would say nothing as it wonat get you anywhere. As mentioned it is their comapny and they can pay who they want, and in reality it is none of your business. If you are not happy in your current position and especially with the pending paycut, i would seriously consider searching elsewhere for a job or maybe set up your own designing on your days off and weekends.... Buy a domain name, create a website and put posts anywhere you can think of looking for work....

23-03-2012, 16:45	#13
fasttalkerchat Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,341 Adverts \| Friends	Start applying for other jobs in case hey sink themselves. If you have another option you could make a few demands. If not you have no choice but to say nothing and hold onto the job until you find something else.