[wrb]

hi all,

i made a mistake and obstructed a gate. my car was towed away by a private company due to garda order (section 98 of road traffic act). i have no problem with that. i made a mistake and i am ok to pay according to the rule of law.

i apologised owners of the house, immediately contacted the company to pay the fee and take my car as soon as possible, but they refused. i was told to come next day in the morning, which i did - i took my car after 18 hours.

i was charged 150eu for towing + 40eu storage fee + VAT.

but according to citizens information website

The Road Traffic (Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations 1983 - 1991 give power to local authorities to tow away vehicles that have been abandoned or illegally parked on a public road or in a local authority car park. Vehicles are towed to a car pound and a significant fee (up to 160 euro) may be charged for their release.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en..._clamping.html

as well, according to irish examiner article

Following an internal audit, the Garda has established that, in cases where vehicles were impounded under section 41 of the Road Traffic Act and subsequently returned, there had been instances of overcharging, a spokesman said.

The towing fee should include the first 24 hours of storage but in some cases a first day charge was added to the towing cost.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin.../cwaukfkfsngb/

i called garda about above and they said that section 41 of road traffic act does not apply in my case. as well, i was told that the fee is matter between me and the private company (i.e. the company can charge me whatever they want). the gardai did not know which law says so.

i do not believe that there is no fee regulations when your car is towed away due to garda request by a private company. if i am right, then... where can i find the information about the fees including references to appropriate law?

[wrb]

similar article to irish examiner one, but bit more detailed

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...nd-257943.html

[coylemj]

Originally Posted by wrb

hi all,

i made a mistake and obstructed a gate. my car was towed away by a private company due to garda order (section 98 of road traffic act). i have no problem with that. i made a mistake and i am ok to pay according to the rule of law.

S.98 of the RTA 1961 deals with obstruction of traffic through a public place.

98.—(1) A person shall not do any act (whether of commission or omission) which causes or is likely to cause traffic through any public place to be obstructed.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/...098.html#sec98

There is no particular power granted to the Gardai to have a car towed away if it's simply obstructing an entrance to private property so I find it dificult to deal with your accont of events, especially when you say that your car was towed away by a private company due to garda order (section 98 of road traffic act). I'm not aware that the Gardai have any such power under S.98 or any other section of the RTA.

Could you clarify exactly what it was you obstructed.....

[wrb]

Originally Posted by coylemj

S.98 of the RTA 1961 deals with obstruction of traffic through a public place.

98.—(1) A person shall not do any act (whether of commission or omission) which causes or is likely to cause traffic through any public place to be obstructed.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/...098.html#sec98

There is no particular power granted to the Gardai to have a car towed away if it's simply obstructing an entrance to private property so I find it dificult to deal with your accont of events, especially when you say that your car was towed away by a private company due to garda order (section 98 of road traffic act). I'm not aware that the Gardai have any such power under S.98 or any other section of the RTA.

Could you clarify exactly what it was you obstructed.....

It was gate of a private home.

It seems the powers to Garda are granted in the regulations cited by Citizens Information web page (part 2 and 4)

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1983/en/si/0091.html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0358.html

I cannot find newer regulations, i.e. saying 160eu or that the fees are the matter between me and the towing company in such case.

[wrb]

last year i tried to get more information about above from Garda.

and basically there is no chance get information about such stuff.

once a Gardai orders a company (Gannons Recovery in my case) to take
your property, then you are on your own. Garda takes no responsibility,
will not help you to get your property back (assuming you are ready to pay!)
and will refuse any fees information.

my advice to others - if they refuse to give your car back, then call
a lawyer immediately. record every single call when dealing with Gardai
or company ordered to impound your car.

[MagicSean]

The current fees are €125 for towing and €35 for storage after the first day. I suggest you ask the towing company why you were charged storage and if you have no luck then write to the Superintendent of the district from which your car was towed.

[wrb]

Originally Posted by MagicSean

The current fees are €125 for towing and €35 for storage after the first day. I suggest you ask the towing company why you were charged storage and if you have no luck then write to the Superintendent of the district from which your car was towed.

Hey,

Thanks for the info, but that's not true.

First, I did call the Superintendent office and they basically were unable to provide
information about the fees. After several calls with a Gardai from the office and following
his advice all the time, actually the Gardai had to force Gannons Recovery to answer
my calls and provide answer to my letter. The answer provided no information,
of course.

Finally, I sent a letter to Superintendent office asking directly about the procedure
of car impound and the fees. I got quite interesting answer. Hard to recall from memory,
so let me provide it in the evening.

[MagicSean]

What part of my post is not true exactly?

[wrb]

Let me provide the following.

Few remarks about my questions to Superintendent
1. I am asking what _the_ _law_ _says_ about the fees, not what a company charges.
2. I have a letter from Superintendent office claiming that the matter of fees is between me and Gannons but Gardai have provided no answer that this is actually the law.
3. I asked Gannons over a phone and via letters about the fees and the question was ignored. It is amazing that such company can win Garda tender.

The questions sent to Superintendent

I am really dissapointed, that I have to complain about Gannons company,
which does not act in good faith and is refusing to answer my questions
about car towing due to Garda orders.

Because of above, I have no other choice, but to ask you directly

1. Which law or regulations state that matter of fees is between Gannons
   company and owner of towed car ?

2. If above was stated by mistake, then I have the following questions
   (a) What is the maximum fee I should be charged for towing (VAT inclusive)?
   (b) What is the maximum fee I should be charged for storage (VAT inclusive)?
   (c) Should towing fee include first 24 hours of storage?

The response from Superintendent

On todays date I contacted Gannons at Donabate and confirmed the
pricing structure with their representative which is as follows:

Vehicle seized for obstruction:
Charge is 150eu plus Vat. This does not include storage which is charged
at 40eu plus VAT per 24 hour period or part thereof.

Vehicle seized under Section 41 of the Road Traffic Act as amended:
Charge is 125eu plus VAT. This includes storage for the first 24 hour period,
thereafter storage is charged at 35eu plus Vat.

Again, but what the law says? :| Of course, not addressing my questions is other matter...

MagicSean, the fee you are providing is _not_ for vehicle seized for obstruction. As you can see there is some "price structure", which needs to be taken into account.

Is this price structure defined by law? It seems that Garda simply does not know.

[MagicSean]

Originally Posted by wrb

Let me provide the following.

Few remarks about my questions to Superintendent
1. I am asking what _the_ _law_ _says_ about the fees, not what a company charges.
2. I have a letter from Superintendent office claiming that the matter of fees is between me and Gannons but Gardai have provided no answer that this is actually the law.
3. I asked Gannons over a phone and via letters about the fees and the question was ignored. It is amazing that such company can win Garda tender.

The questions sent to Superintendent

I am really dissapointed, that I have to complain about Gannons company,
which does not act in good faith and is refusing to answer my questions
about car towing due to Garda orders.

Because of above, I have no other choice, but to ask you directly

1. Which law or regulations state that matter of fees is between Gannons
   company and owner of towed car ?

2. If above was stated by mistake, then I have the following questions
   (a) What is the maximum fee I should be charged for towing (VAT inclusive)?
   (b) What is the maximum fee I should be charged for storage (VAT inclusive)?
   (c) Should towing fee include first 24 hours of storage?

The response from Superintendent

On todays date I contacted Gannons at Donabate and confirmed the
pricing structure with their representative which is as follows:

Vehicle seized for obstruction:
Charge is 150eu plus Vat. This does not include storage which is charged
at 40eu plus VAT per 24 hour period or part thereof.

Vehicle seized under Section 41 of the Road Traffic Act as amended:
Charge is 125eu plus VAT. This includes storage for the first 24 hour period,
thereafter storage is charged at 35eu plus Vat.

Again, but what the law says? :| Of course, not addressing my questions is other matter...

MagicSean, the fee you are providing is _not_ for vehicle seized for obstruction. As you can see there is some "price structure", which needs to be taken into account.

Is this price structure defined by law? It seems that Garda simply does not know.

Did you read the statutory instruments you posted? The fees are set out as I stated (although they are in £'s not €'s) for both Section 41 seizures and obstruction. The S.I. also allows for the Gardaí to engage the services of a third party to perform the service of removing and storing the vehicles. There is nothing in relation to fees for this service. In Dublin the service is operated by way of tender and the prices would be se as part of this process.

I suppose you could argue that this is contrary to the statutory instrument which doesn't specifically state that different fees can be charged when a third party is involved but you would have to run that by a solicitor.

[Carawaystick]

have a look at
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1973/en/si/0009.html

Were you quoted vat inclusive prices by gannons?

[wrb]

Originally Posted by MagicSean

...
In Dublin the service is operated by way of tender and the prices would be se as part of this process.
...

Exactly. It is common sense in the light of SI, but Garda mentions no tender in his
answer. On top of that, from one of the letters from Garda

The issues of fees are a matter between Gannons City Recovery
and the owner of the towed vehicle.

Year ago I have called Ballymun Garda Station (that's the Garda station involved in my case) and they refused to provide information about the tender.

How could I obtain the text of the tender? Any ideas?

[wrb]

Originally Posted by Carawaystick

have a look at
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1973/en/si/0009.html

Were you quoted vat inclusive prices by gannons?

When collecting my car I was quoted VAT exclusive... and the price changed twice.

The only letter I got from Gannons, which took them 2 months to produce because Garda forced them to, mentions no fees of course (and no answer to my question). No to forget that Gardai by whose order my car was seized mentioned different fee as well.

I really regret I did not record the whole thing while talking to them over the phone or in person.