[Bill Shock]

Originally Posted by clohamon

Consent deadline.

I wonder how many will be late?



DCENR emphasis
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communicatio...and+Scheme.htm

THe logical conclusion of the letter sent is that if all of the applicants can be provided with a service by the participating commercial providers (even satellite) then there will be no Scheme (from the point of view that the dept will not need to seek a service provider). In essence what they will have done is undertaken a major data collection exercise for ISPs and not have to spend any money on procuring a service provider. that's my take on it anyway.

[clohamon]

Originally Posted by Bill Shock

THe logical conclusion of the letter sent is that if all of the applicants can be provided with a service by the participating commercial providers (even satellite) then there will be no Scheme (from the point of view that the dept will not need to seek a service provider). In essence what they will have done is undertaken a major data collection exercise for ISPs and not have to spend any money on procuring a service provider. that's my take on it anyway.

Yes and No.

There is a difference between what was agreed with EU and what is being proposed.

1. Is it affordable ?

In particular, (1) Ireland will verify that the targeted consumers cannot be reasonably served by existing service providers at affordable costs;

2. Does it meet all of the following ?

Service providers will submit bids and the granting authority will select a bidder who will be required to provide broadband services to consumers who qualify under the measure. The minimum required service will have the following characteristics: always-on service (no charge by connection time); downstream speed of minimum 2Mbps; upstream speed of minimum 256kbps; a maximum contention ratio equivalent to 48:1; minimum monthly limit on download capacity (uncharged) per retail subscriber connection of 10GB; latency requirements such that common Internet Protocol (IP) applications such as Virtual Private Network (VPN), Voice over IP (VoIP) and gaming may be supported by the broadband service.

http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/state_aid...09/n607-09.pdf

If there's no one left in the scheme then there's no state aid so the EU conditions no longer apply.

One option for applicants is to reply to DCENR saying the conditions do not include latency and VPN requirements and threaten some kind of appeal to the EU Commission.

[watty]

But we know how well that worked with NBS. Three's tender response (And Eircom's rejected one*) didn't meet the spec for Broadband or the NBS spec.

(* Eircom was going to mostly use Meteor 3G/HSPA, but had priced the Satellite fill in with proper cap. Three had priced an imaginary-at-the-time satellite fill in and was cheaper. The eventually supplied Three Satellite element often doesn't meet Cap or speed requirements).

Unfortunately the NBS was never monitored properly and penalties for not meeting it secret. Also the the Dept accepted a Tender that had not had "due diligence" (the Satellite service couldn't be ready in time) and could never meet their own spec.

But even the creation of the NBS maps was a fudge. Insisting on a single vendor rather than regional ones and an single management company (as done elsewhere) killed any chance of WISPs entering. Yet they changed the spec after picking the winner to justify the selection.
Someone should be on trial for Stupidity and wasting taxpayers and EU money or for corruption. They have done this process better in Africa. The RBS is a similar con trick.

[dkane]

I signed my parents up for the RBS. It really is a farce that satellite providers are allowed to partake. QSat are going to say they have coverage at all 3,700 locations and therefore you either accept their offer or bugger off. There will be no tender as they will have qualified everyone out by that stage.

My parents are in Meath. The providers that have indicated that they may be able to provide service are O2, QSat and Ripplecom.

I know that there is no line of site from my parents' house to Ripplecom's transmitter and to be honest I wouldn't go near them anyway so this leaves mobile "broadband" from O2 or QSat.

What a choice!

[clohamon]

Deputy Nicky McFadden asked the following
http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?...=1064#g491.0.q

To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the number of qualifying applicants who now remain in the rural broadband scheme since the 2 of March deadline; and the length of time it is proposed to allow operators in which to provide services to those remaining and if any of the €17.9m budgeted for this scheme has been allocated to other projects or purposes..

and reply

.....Letters were issued to applicants on 17th February asking them to give their consent to be contacted by those ISPs who had indicated that they could offer them a service. The deadline for the return of consent forms has been extended to 16th March 2012 and reminder letters have been issued to applicants who have not yet responded. After the new deadline has passed, my Department will be providing further information to the participating ISPs to enable them to write to applicants with offers of service. I expect that these written offers will be sent out in April and, subject to final agreement with the ISPs concerned, the provision of services to applicants during this phase of the Scheme will be carried out over the period May to July this year. The response to date by industry suggests that virtually all premises in the country are capable of obtaining a broadband service from a supplier using one of the available technology platforms i.e. DSL, fixed or mobile wireless, cable or satellite. Where a commercial service has been shown to be available, the State cannot intervene with a subvention for alternative services. While it is not possible to say definitively at this stage what amount, if any, of the EU funding available for this project through the Rural Development Programme will be required, I can assure the Deputy that it is the intention of both the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine to ensure that the fund is fully utilised for rural development measures and that there is no loss of funding for Ireland as a whole.

So, providers will be allowed at least until the end of July to offer a solution. Then there will be more verification, consent etc which ought to sufficient for the remaindermen to do the decent thing and withdraw.

There is an alternative for those with stamina, and someone has a cunning plan.

[clohamon]

The Department's war of attrition against RBS applicants seems to be paying off. All the delays, multiple consents, low spec, high cost etc have reduced the number of applicants to just 2011 from the 5000 that applied last year.

They will now have to wait until the end of July to allow the providers a chance to offer a service. After that it's anyone's guess. Completion by 2012 is now only a target.

The companies involved will be seeking to provide services to applicants over the period from the end of April until the end of July 2012. Once this phase of the Scheme is completed, the companies will be returning data to the Department to inform us of the outcome.

It is expected that a significant number of applicants will be served by commercial operators as part of this phase of the scheme. If any applicants remain un-served after this phase, a service will have to be procured by the Department and our target is to have this rolled out by the end of this year.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communicatio...and+Scheme.htm

[jbkenn]

Originally Posted by clohamon

The Department's war of attrition against RBS applicants seems to be paying off. All the delays, multiple consents, low spec, high cost etc have reduced the number of applicants to just 2011 from the 5000 that applied last year.

They will now have to wait until the end of July to allow the providers a chance to offer a service. After that it's anyone's guess. Completion by 2012 is now only a target.



http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communicatio...and+Scheme.htm

clohamon, are you surprised?, par for the course from these fcukwits, any official from a Government department that still believes Satellite is broadband, having been made well aware in the presence of the the then Minister, "Dialup" Dempsey, when he relaunched the then GBS on the 18th of January 2005, by some well known Boards contributors, of the unsuitability and limitations of Satellite as a broadband solution for rural Ireland, and yes, they are still there drawing the paycheque, and sees fit to pay €3,000,000 p.a. to rent a building in this day and age, should not be allowed responsibility for anything, unless under the supervision of a responsible minor, somebody definitely has to tie their shoe laces in the morning, before they venture off to work.

There is a way to solve this issue for once and for all, if Minister "Rabbitte in the headlights" could connect his brain to his ar$e.
We are in the process of rolling out 100Mb broadband to every secondary school in this fair isle, hair brain scheme no. 367,942. from said department, have a look at the displacement of these schools, what if, instead of delivering 100Mb, we delivered 200Mb, and allowed locally based Wireless ISP's to purchase the surplus 100Mb. at a competitive pricing structure, they would then be in a position to close to the rural digital divide, make sense?, to you maybe, but the Department, "you could'nt do that, if you did every child in Ireland would fail their Leaving Cert", or some such nonsense will be trotted out.

I know of one Secondary school about to be blessed with this bounty, meanwhile 400 metres as the crow flies from the school, is a business creating and sustaining real jobs, distributing Irish food products to Europe, who will have to struggle away with the embarrassment of trying to video conference with their European clients on a crappy DSL connection, but hey, they will be happy in the knowledge that their tax Euro's will be funding the schoolkids to watch Youtube at blazing speed, and said Department can be seen to be developing the famous "Knowledge Economy", whatever that is.

[clohamon]

The final group of unserved were due to be revealed after the end of July….

 The companies involved will be seeking to provide services to applicants until the end of July 2012. Once this phase of the Scheme is completed, the companies will be returning data to the Department to inform us of the outcome. - DCENR website 25/07/2012

….the latest is for the end of September.

The Department is now in the process of gathering data from the companies concerned giving the result of this exercise and the outcome of the Scheme will not be known until all of the data has been returned to the Department. This is expected to be around the end of September 2012. - DCENR website 14/09/2012

The cost of the scheme is holding steady at zero.

As the internet service companies participating in the scheme have offered services to applicants without the need for subsidy, there has been no disbursement of public money for the provision of services arising to date on the scheme. - http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas....and%20Services