[iguana]

I think you need 15 or 25 posts before the thumb appears on your screen and you can 'like' things.

[JonPierson]

Thank you, MagicMarker. All I can see, at the moment, are a 'Reply With Quote' button, a 'Multi-Quote This Message' button and a 'Quick reply to this message' button, which I used to send this.

By the way, does anyone know what the 'correct' answers to the original HDAPE questions are?

[KamiKazeKitten]

Originally Posted by darealtulip

And then they still dare to write in their submissions that the schools are all inclusive. I would very much like to know where this was as it can be very useful in future submissions.

I'll see if I can find out for you, don't know if the lecturer would be happy naming it but I'll try.

[darealtulip]

Originally Posted by KamiKazeKitten

I'll see if I can find out for you, don't know if the lecturer would be happy naming it but I'll try.

I PMed you.

[recedite]

Originally Posted by Solair

It's absolutely insane that religious organisations are the only agencies offering primary teacher training.

There's already a choice though. Protestant teacher training produces the right teachers to teach the kids in protestant schools, and catholic teacher training does likewise for catholic schools. That's the way it is, and always has been.
Who are you, to question the system?

[recedite]

Originally Posted by Solair

I also know a few non-Catholic (atheist and protestant) primary school teachers who trained outside Ireland who teach in Catholic primary schools without any issue.
While it could potentially be problematic for them, it hasn't been. They seem to get way with just being able to teach the religious bits of the course. They don't necessarily have to believe or agree with what they're teaching.

They were probably taken on during the boom years when there was a shortage of teachers. They were even taking on people without any teaching qualification at all, at one stage. It won't be happening again for a long time...

Originally Posted by JonPierson

If you are religious, you believe that your god is everywhere, knows everything and is all powerful and so must be responsible for either causing these disasters or sitting back and letting them happen. If there is anyone religious reading this, tell me where my logic fails.

(Please do not forget to post the expected answer to 'Question 13 of 20'.)

Thank you.

Religion and logic do not mix.
The expected answer to that question is that the statement "Hinduism is positive for society" is "false", because "apparently" those badboys perpetuate the caste system in India.
This makes the statement about atheists being negative for society "true".
I presume the third statement about Islam is also supposed to be some kind of slur against muslims, but I can't make any sense out of it myself.

[wonderfulname]

Originally Posted by recedite

I presume the third statement about Islam is also supposed to be some kind of slur against muslims, but I can't make any sense out of it myself.

As far as I can tell the 3rd option is indeed false, unless you're an Islamist, Islam being the religion and Islamists being those who believe it should guide society as well as personal life.

So it's kind of ironic in a way, saying one religion should have no say in society in a manner which clearly suggests you believe another should...

But I could be wrong, Islam isn't exactly something I know much about.

[JonPierson]

Thank you to both recedite and wonderfulname for your assistance in achieving my quest. Unfortunately, we seem to have a difference of opinion and I am certainly not qualified to pick the winner, as it were.

I think that I had already resigned myself to having, at whatever degree of separation, a negative effect on society. I frequently consider my failures in this respect. For example, I've never stuck my dick up a little boy's arse, I don't accumulate wealth and property beyond the dreams of Croesus, while millions die each day for the want of fresh water, food and a cure for malaria and I certainly don't go around telling poor people in AIDS affected countries that condoms are evil and, anyway, let the HIV virus pass through them. I guess, I should practice those things, like the Roman Catholic church does, just so that I wouldn't have such a negative effect on society.

Shucks, all I do is try to treat people as they want to be treated. (I don't go with the idea that I should treat people how I want to be treated because that would arrogantly assume that the way I want to be treated is the way that everyone should want to be treated but, then again, I'm not religious.)

[recedite]

Originally Posted by wonderfulname

As far as I can tell the 3rd option is indeed false, unless you're an Islamist, Islam being the religion and Islamists being those who believe it should guide society as well as personal life.

So it's kind of ironic in a way, saying one religion should have no say in society in a manner which clearly suggests you believe another should...

Good point. So its about the separation of Church and State, or lack of it, in the Muslim world.
Its a pity they couldn't string together a coherent sentence.
It really is infantile stuff. Reminds me of Rudyard Kipling talking (a long time ago) about how it was "the white man's burden" to go out to these faraway places and show them the proper way of doing things.

[oceanclub]

Can I ask what other material or questions were in the course about Islam?

P.

[kylith]

Originally Posted by recedite

T
Who are you, to question the system?

You are aware, I hope, that if people bowed to such phrases as 'who are you to question the system' we'd all still be living in caves, using stone tools, and risking dying for want of a course of penecillen before reaching puberty.

Questioning the system isn't just good, it should be mandatory.

[JonPierson]

Originally Posted by kylith

You are aware, I hope, that if people bowed to such phrases as 'who are you to question the system' we'd all still be living in caves, using stone tools, and risking dying for want of a course of penecillen before reaching puberty.

Questioning the system isn't just good, it should be mandatory.

kylith, I think that recedite was using irony to underscore the point that we live in a State in which successive governments have relinquished their responsibilities to citizens by permitting unelected and unaccountable organisations – religions – to decide what garbage children, as young as four-years-old, are indoctrinated with and how those inflicting the indoctrination are trained.

The United Nations Human Rights Committee, under the International Covenant
 on Civil and 
Political Rights, said of Ireland, in its 'Consideration of Reports Submitted by States Parties 
Under Article 40 of the Covenant' (CCPR/C/IRL/CO/3):

22. The Committee notes with concern that the vast majority of Ireland’s primary schools are privately run denominational schools that have adopted a religious integrated curriculum thus depriving many parents and children who so wish to have access to secular primary education. (arts. 2, 18, 24, 26).
The State party should increase its efforts to ensure that non-denominational primary education is widely available in all regions of the State party, in view of the increasingly diverse and multi-ethnic composition of the population of the State party.

As we all know, the 'State party' has failed, in every respect, to ensure that even one non-denominational primary school exists in the State.

[oceanclub]

I'd mentioned a journo was doing an article on this a while back; unfortunately no papers were interested. (I guess Vatican embassies or lack of are seen as a bigger religious-rights issue than the teaching of humanists and Hindus as evil). Anyway, here's the article as a blog entry:

http://faduda.ie/longform/controvers...t-teacher-exam

P.

[darealtulip]

I have informed some journalists as well and so has Atheist Ireland. The Irish Times picked up on it but dropped it due to an other news item that was given priority by the editor.

Atheist Ireland had a meeting today with the Council of Europe and handed the notes from Hibernia College to them.

I will report later what else is happening.

I will write a follow up to the Minister for sure.

[Galvasean]

Originally Posted by darealtulip

I have informed some journalists as well and so has Atheist Ireland. The Irish Times picked up on but dropped due to an other news item that was given priority by the editor.

Atheist Ireland had an meeting today with the Council of Europe and handed the notes from Hibernia College to them.

I will report later what else is happening.

We await with great interest.