[vicwatson]

So you think background has nothing to do with it ?

Don't recall saying that. Perhaps you can remind?

The point is is that if 100 people come from a "disadvantaged" background, perhaps 5 of them will turn into druggie scumbag criminals, the other 95% will lead a law abiding life, but 100% are from the disadvantaged background, ergo, the far majority of people that come from a disadvantaged background will be law abiding citizens. Crime is a lifestyle choice.

[Einhard]

Originally Posted by vicwatson

Bullsh1te - his life is repeated in every part of Ireland and not everyone that had no money turned out to be a druggie and a criminal, thousands of people grew up in families that had nothing but didn't go on to be criminals.

So scumbags are just born that way then?

Originally Posted by vicwatson

The point is is that if 100 people come from a "disadvantaged" background, perhaps 5 of them will turn into druggie scumbag criminals, the other 95% will lead a law abiding life, but 100% are from the disadvantaged background, ergo, the far majority of people that come from a disadvantaged background will be law abiding citizens. Crime is a lifestyle choice.

It's not just about where one was born or how wealthy one's family is, but what kind of parents one has. I think it goes without saying that any kids, say, Wayne Dundon has, are more likely to end up as criminals than the kids of the law abiding family living across the road. To dismiss sociological factors so summarily is not only to deny reality, but it's also to deny an understanding of crime and criminality which might be used to prevent it.

[MungBean]

Originally Posted by vicwatson

Don't recall saying that. Perhaps you can remind?

So you do understand that background does impact on a persons lifestyle choice ? Now we are getting somewhere !!

The point is is that if 100 people come from a "disadvantaged" background, perhaps 5 of them will turn into druggie scumbag criminals, the other 95% will lead a law abiding life, but 100% are from the disadvantaged background, ergo, the far majority of people that come from a disadvantaged background will be law abiding citizens. Crime is a lifestyle choice.

Everything involves choice, repeatedly highlighting that is a cop out from putting forward a real argument. Nobody has said anything about them having no choice but you cant deny that crime rates are higher in disadvantaged areas and its not simply because these people want more than anything else to be criminals and junkies.

You think every factory worker in Ireland wants to be a factory worker ? Or you think most of them have to do it because there are very few other options available to them for supporting themselves ? Its the same in certain areas where crime is seen and taught to kids as a viable option to get money. For others addicted to drugs its the only way they can get the money to feed the habit, is there choice ? Course there is but saying they want to do that and will never do anything else is pointless. You have to try and figure out why they ended up that way and try to prevent others from following the same path.

All well and good to call them all scum but people still have to deal with those scum and will always have to deal with those scum in ever increasing numbers unless the problem is tackled. We cant neuter them to stop them reproducing and we cant put them all down. So what do we do ? Just keep repeating "Crime is a life style choice" ? That probably wont do much I dont think.

[jimmyw]

I cant really take that Damien English fella seriously,(not I would anyway) with that accent of his.

This "pathways to work crap" is only fiddling the numbers, cause technically these people who train are not unemployed, but their not working either.

[mossyc123]

He's talking a lot of sense in fairness...

[steelcityblues]

Originally Posted by jimmyw

I cant really take that Damien English fella seriously,(not I would anyway) with that accent of his.

This "pathways to work crap" is only fiddling the numbers, cause technically these people who train are not unemployed, but their not working either.

Exactly. The government wants to take over the role of local industry.

[JonathanAnon]

Originally Posted by mossyc123

He's talking a lot of sense in fairness...

I think he's been a lot better tonight. I've seen him being poor on this show, but he's good tonight.. Heard Joan Burton on today with Mary Wilson, and both of them were awful..

[mossyc123]

Originally Posted by JonathanAnon

I think he's been a lot better tonight. I've seen him being poor on this show, but he's good tonight.. Heard Joan Burton on today with Mary Wilson, and both of them were awful..

Moanfest!!!

He is getting the better of VB IMO.

[Harry Angstrom]

Originally Posted by jimmyw

I cant really take that Damien English fella seriously,(not I would anyway) with that accent of his.

This "pathways to work crap" is only fiddling the numbers, cause technically these people who train are not unemployed, but their not working either.

English is a knob-head. The Government keep peddling this nonsense that unemployed people are scroungers and fraudsters. If they say it enough, then the public will start to believe it. At the height of the "Celtic Tiger" only 30,000 were long-term unemployed - evidence that the vast majority of people are not scroungers or fraudsters.

[ascanbe]

That English guy exudes all the normal arrogance that seems to be the hall-mark of the young FG TD's that appear on this programme, along with the added bonus of not bothering to speak in a manner that's easily understandable.

[jimmyw]

Its feckin ridiculous how short the programme is

[bluefinger]

tv3 would want to sort out their scheduling. it's awful

[D1stant]

Originally Posted by jimmyw

I cant really take that Damien English fella seriously,(not I would anyway) with that accent of his.

This "pathways to work crap" is only fiddling the numbers, cause technically these people who train are not unemployed, but their not working either.

Damien English is like a guy from another era. He would have fitted right into the Dail in the 1950. But most TDs are like that. Bleating prat.

And if they were honest - the only pathway to work the government can possibly help with is free one way tickets out of here.

[Einhard]

Originally Posted by Harry Angstrom

English is a knob-head. The Government keep peddling this nonsense that unemployed people are scroungers and fraudsters. If they say it enough, then the public will start to believe it. At the height of the "Celtic Tiger" only 30,000 were long-term unemployed - evidence that the vast majority of people are not scroungers or fraudsters.

The government peddle that? News to me. I was on the dole for over a year and never felt that i was being targeted in such a fashion.

The fact that there were 30k long term unemployed on the dole at a time when jobs were plentiful, and we were appealing for workers from abroad to fill positions, is strongly indicative that there are quite a few scroungers and fraudsters on the dole. You seem to think that's ok. Perhaps you'd like to pay the share of my PRSI that goes to paying fraudulent claims so?

I think it's ludicrous that when the government takes entirely appropriate measures to tackle social welfare fraud, they are condemned by some people. This programme isn't an attack on those on the dole; it's an attack on those who play the system for their own advantage, and fraudulently collect money that could be better spent elsewhere. You seem to have no problem with that; I for one would rather it be spent on Special Needs Assistants in schools and the like. I doubt I'm alone in that regard either.

[Harry Angstrom]

Originally Posted by Einhard

The fact that there were 30k long term unemployed on the dole at a time when jobs were plentiful, and we were appealing for workers from abroad to fill positions, is strongly indicative that there are quite a few scroungers and fraudsters on the dole. You seem to think that's ok.

I wouldn't necessarily brand them as fraudsters or scroungers. Some of those 30,000 may have had literacy issues or mental health problems, such as anxiety or depression. There's a direct correlation between long-term unemployment and lack of education. I wouldn't be quick to label anybody without knowing their personal circumstances first.