[Dudess]

Originally Posted by Sister Assumpta

Why do you find these things so precious? It's just sex. Sorry to be crass, but I don't know why we treat handjobs with more gravity than we treat handshakes.

I think it would do both woman AND men the world of good to be a little bit more grown up when it comes to sex. We need to stop pussyfooting around perfectly natural bodily functions and stop treating them like magical wonders.

That phrase makes me think of urination, defecation, menstruation.

Sex acts as bodily functions - really reduces them to something completely perfunctory. They are natural once certain elements are present - like arousal, lubrication, desire, consent. Would you consider rape natural? I mean it's sex, a natural bodily function...

For many people, anal isn't "just sex" - it's something they'd rather not do. Personal preference.

And do you really think cleaner is a fair comparison with prostitute?

[mhge]

No, I wouldn't and certainly not for a pair of football boots like she supposedly did. I don't believe she is a real person either, with her account being so squeaky clean. My feeling is that it's all to market an "oh my God an educated woman selling herself" book.

I agree about the arguments saying that with social welfare safety net in place there is no need for a committed parent to engage in activities putting her own safety at risk. If she was assaulted, raped, HIV infected, arrested as part of some ruckus etc. how would it help her children?

If she is such a promising book writer, why not to write a book on something else. A middle class woman braving the recession story would sell well too, if she put enough spark in it. If she had the gusto to blow strangers, this should be a walk in the park!

[Dudess]

Originally Posted by baby and crumble

And lets not forget, some people really, really like sex. So for them, if they enjoy what they are doing, why should other people look down on them?

Are there people who enjoy the sensation so much that it doesn't matter a jot whom it's with? Perhaps, but rare I'd assume. The money rules methinks.
Nobody's looking down on prostitutes here btw - just offering views on the pitfalls of the profession.

[Ickle Magoo]

Originally Posted by mariaalice

Its easy to take a moral position when you have never been tested!

That's a bit of lazy assumption tbh - and it's more that a little disingenuous to ask "Would you" and then throw out the moral high-ground card when posters take the time to respond. Why should being tested automatically mean prostitution should or would be the only option anyway? Millions of people manage to get by in life without resorting to prostitution - in the OP it was a "rational" choice.

I left home at 16 with very little to call my own, I worked two low paying jobs at nights to get through university...at no point did or will I ever think a mortgage or lifestyle maintained by prostitution was/is a fair exchange for losing autonomy on who can touch my body, nor for disregarding my personal safety. That's my "rational" choice.

[pow wow]

Originally Posted by johnr1

If she or you lived in a country with no social supports, and there was a real danger of your children dying of hunger, or lack of shelter or of them growing up without an education, then yes, it would be in their interest to do this.

However, neither she nor you do, and the potential damage caused to them by having a mother an escort/prostitute is in my opinion more than that caused by having to live on the welfare system here.

I don't think any woman who does this is waiting for the day they can tell their kids how mummy was a prostitute back in the day and the woman in the interview was a discreet as she could be so it's not automatic that her children are going to find out. They may find out, they may not, who knows. As her children grow up they'll form their own opinions on what to them is or isn't acceptable. Sometimes parents do things outside of that but they are adults with choices to make.

It is a personal choice and much as it may abhor you to think any woman would rationally choose it in a country with a good welfare system, it's a choice more than one woman makes every day. I doubt any of them would have written this into the story of their lives and that of their children unless they felt they had no better option. The context of this particular woman's story meant that for her the jump from guys she met online dating who were only after one thing and taking that one step further and charging for it wasn't a great leap.

Just because it's not a rational or morally correct choice for some people it doesn't mean it's not for others. Most of us are lucky enough to chart out our life stories saying how tough we had it but we made it through without ever even considering prostitution. Some of us just aren't that lucky.

[johnr1]

Originally Posted by pow wow

It is a personal choice and much as it may abhor you to think any woman would rationally choose it in a country with a good welfare system, it's a choice more than one woman makes every day. I doubt any of them would have written this into the story of their lives and that of their children unless they felt they had no better option.

Just because it's not a rational or morally correct choice for some people it doesn't mean it's not for others. Most of us are lucky enough to chart out our life stories saying how tough we had it but we made it through without ever even considering prostitution. Some of us just aren't that lucky.

Where did I say it abhorred me?? Stop putting words in my mouth.

Yes it IS a personal CHOICE, I've been saying that in every post.
What it is not is necessary. She had other options.

I never made any moral judgement on this choice.

My one and only point is that it is disingenuous to say "I had to,- for my kids", because this is untrue. She didn't have to. She chose to.


.

[panda100]

Originally Posted by sherbett32

This is not the "real" face of prostitution in Ireland - very dangereous and damaging story IMO & may make soem women think it's easy money

Completely agree. I was in Easons in Dublin at the weekend, and it was number 3 in the bestseller chart! The book was also widely reviewed in most of the weekend papers.
I think if it was being sold as fiction it wouldn't be so bad,but it is meant to be 'real' account of working as a prostitutue in Ireland!That is what is so damaging, as there are women whom are in dire situations and think prostitution is a lucrative option after reading this completly fake account. The author states in her interviews that its the easiest money she ever made. Of course, this will appeal to lots of women,but her account is absolute and complete fiction.It is without a shred of doubt written by a journalist, struggling writer or pimp working in the sex industry.

Firstly, there is no way a women in her late 30's would make €400/hour in recessionary times. Not even in the celtic tiger boom would an escort in their late 30's make that money.You could get Brazilian twins in their teens for half that price!It is very unclear and vague wether she was working for an agency or as an independent. If she was working for an agency,she'd only be making €200 an hour or less, after they have taken their cut. The figures of what she earned really don't add up. She is also a very stupid women with no regard for her saftey. She was meeting strangers in hotels and nobody knew where she was. There are very,very few escorts who would do outcalls like that with no security or buddy contact system.

As for the type of clients she had, well thats just laughable.Lonely,poor men who she feels sorry for! This is not what your average punter is like in Ireland. The majority of punters who encounter a women in her late 30's with stretch marks standing at their hotel door, would laugh in her face and have no qualms with telling her she was an old bag.
It seems like she had absolutely no bad experiences whatsoever, and it was all fun and games. Lets be realistic,in any job you have sh*t days and encounter really sh*t people.Yet,Scarlett O'Kelly seems to have had none of these days or met any bad people. Is that really believable?

I was in an internet cafe in Phibsborough one night, and there was an old smelly man beside me looking at escort ireland. He was ringing up a whole pile of the escorts trying to get the cheapest one he could for 30minutes. The power was in his hands, as he rang 10 diffeernt girls and asked them what they would do for him in 30minutes for the smallest price. I listened as they rang him back one after one, desperate for cash,negotiating what sex acts they would peform on him for the cheapest price. That is not empowering for women, and books like this are just absolutely dreadful, as they are promoting a false account of an industry that we should be doing everything in our power to stamp out.

Did anyone see the front page of The Sun yesterday?There was an article with the headline 'Tarts coming to Ireland'.Basically saying how there'll be lots of 'tarts',escorts to you and me, in Ireland this weekend for the rugby match. They had a picture of some 20 year old Latvian girl, who said she was really up for it and open for business. I think calling women whom work as escorts 'tarts' is disgsuting. But you can bet that the people who buy The Sun are those who probably will use escorts, and that is their view on women.

[baby and crumble]

Originally Posted by panda100

Completely agree. I was in Easons in Dublin at the weekend, and it was number 3 in the bestseller chart! The book was also widely reviewed in most of the weekend papers.
I think if it was being sold as fiction it wouldn't be so bad,but it is meant to be 'real' account of working as a prostitutue in Ireland!That is what is so damaging, as there are women whom are in dire situations and think prostitution is a lucrative option after reading this completly fake account. The author states in her interviews that its the easiest money she ever made. Of course, this will appeal to lots of women,but her account is absolute and complete fiction.It is without a shred of doubt written by a journalist, struggling writer or pimp working in the sex industry.

Firstly, there is no way a women in her late 30's would make €400/hour in recessionary times. Not even in the celtic tiger boom would an escort in their late 30's make that money.You could get Brazilian twins in their teens for half that price!It is very unclear and vague wether she was working for an agency or as an independent. If she was working for an agency,she'd only be making €200 an hour or less, after they have taken their cut. The figures of what she earned really don't add up. She is also a very stupid women with no regard for her saftey. She was meeting strangers in hotels and nobody knew where she was. There are very,very few escorts who would do outcalls like that with no security or buddy contact system.

As for the type of clients she had, well thats just laughable.Lonely,poor men who she feels sorry for! This is not what your average punter is like in Ireland. The majority of punters who encounter a women in her late 30's with stretch marks standing at their hotel door, would laugh in her face and have no qualms with telling her she was an old bag.
It seems like she had absolutely no bad experiences whatsoever, and it was all fun and games. Lets be realistic,in any job you have sh*t days and encounter really sh*t people.Yet,Scarlett O'Kelly seems to have had none of these days or met any bad people. Is that really believable?

I was in an internet cafe in Phibsborough one night, and there was an old smelly man beside me looking at escort ireland. He was ringing up a whole pile of the escorts trying to get the cheapest one he could for 30minutes. The power was in his hands, as he rang 10 diffeernt girls and asked them what they would do for him in 30minutes for the smallest price. I listened as they rang him back one after one, desperate for cash,negotiating what sex acts they would peform on him for the cheapest price. That is not empowering for women, and books like this are just absolutely dreadful, as they are promoting a false account of an industry that we should be doing everything in our power to stamp out.

Did anyone see the front page of The Sun yesterday?There was an article with the headline 'Tarts coming to Ireland'.Basically saying how there'll be lots of 'tarts',escorts to you and me, in Ireland this weekend for the rugby match. They had a picture of some 20 year old Latvian girl, who said she was really up for it and open for business. I think calling women whom work as escorts 'tarts' is disgsuting. But you can bet that the people who buy The Sun are those who probably will use escorts, and that is their view on women.

Can I just ask- what evidence do you have to back up those points?

[JuliusCaesar]

Originally Posted by johnr1

There are plenty of other escort bloggers - some who found it to be a more positive experience than the one you linked.
Most are however by single women without children, and for them the motivation seems to be money, lifestyle, material possessions.
I think that's fine, if those things are most important to that person.

I don't know - I worked with prostitutes in a variety of circumstances, not always in my professional capacity. Most of those I encountered if not all (I don't actually remember ANY exceptions) found it a degrading and stigmatising experience. They all (as far as I recall- this was about 20-30 years ago mostly) regretted having done it.

Originally Posted by Dudess

Would you consider rape natural? I mean it's sex, a natural bodily function...

For many people, anal isn't "just sex" - it's something they'd rather not do. Personal preference.

Originally Posted by Dudess

Are there people who enjoy the sensation so much that it doesn't matter a jot whom it's with? Perhaps, but rare I'd assume. The money rules methinks.

I enjoy eating - but there's a limit beyond which I no longer enjoy it. I remember watching a documentary about a woman who set out to break the world's record for having the most men ever (a woman with whom I had a slight personal connection) and it was the saddest, most ridiculous, revolting thing ever. The men queued, massaging their dicks to maintain their erections, to have a go while she squirmed supposedly in ecstacy. She took a break after every 30 men, and they were all supposed to wear condoms...but didn't.

Originally Posted by username123

Would I accept cash in exchange for a variety of sexual acts? Yes, absolutely, if I needed or wanted the money.

Now think of the most disgusting and repellent man you've ever come across and tell me that yes, you'd have sex with him. And that sex includes being ordered around by him, without any regard for you having any feelings or opinions.

Originally Posted by mhge

I don't believe she is a real person either, with her account being so squeaky clean. My feeling is that it's all to market an "oh my God an educated woman selling herself" book.

Originally Posted by panda100

I think if it was being sold as fiction it wouldn't be so bad,but it is meant to be 'real' account of working as a prostitutue in Ireland!That is what is so damaging, as there are women whom are in dire situations and think prostitution is a lucrative option after reading this completly fake account. The author states in her interviews that its the easiest money she ever made. Of course, this will appeal to lots of women,but her account is absolute and complete fiction.It is without a shred of doubt written by a journalist, struggling writer or pimp working in the sex industry.

There's a long history of writing these books which are actually more for the titilation of the reader than they are about being truthful. The word 'pornography' itself means 'the writings of prostitutes'. Pornography doesn't claim to reflect reality, even though nowadays fashions may reflect pornography!

[The_Thing]

Addressing the House Of Commons in 2009, the Parish Priest of London's Soho had this to say about prostitution in his area:

[Da Shins Kelly]

I wouldn't do it. Fair play to any women who do it, are okay with it and feel in control, but I don't think I could ever be okay with being used for sex. It would really f*ck me up I think. It's just the kind of person I am. I guess it just kind of depends what kind of mental disposition you have, and I don't think I'd be mentally equipped to deal with the psychological effects of a job like that.

[mariaalice]

I have thought about this, I had not fully realized that she did it to maintain a lifestyle and not just to pay her mortgage. I was in a book shop this morning and flicked trough it I think it is a highly sanitized account of her life as an escort.

The things I found interesting was how she found men, on interned dating site looking for something casual really meant they were just looking for commitment free sex, so those were the men she targeted for her service's

I would not do it to maintain a life style and John1 is right she did have other choices she could have taken.

If my children were starving and the only way I could feed them was by becoming an escort yes I would do it.

I feel women ( and men ) are exploited by prostitution and that the purchasers of sex are the ones who should be prosecuted, because I think the shame of being caught, charged and named in the paper might be enought to make some men hesitate and not to pay to use another another human being.

People take the oddest inferences for what you say on boards.ie so before I add the next paragraph, I want to say I am completely uninhibited and have no hang ups about sex and I don't make value judgment on what people want to do in a consensual sexual relationship, I have had lovely relationships with various men I have been very luck I think,

However I don't think we have a divine right to sex, while a a good sexual relationship is a wonderful, pleasurable, life enhancing experience, being celibate is not going to harm you in anyway, so therefore if you cant access sex in the normal way ( for what ever reason ) you have no right to access it by paying to use another human being.

[The Black Oil]

Originally Posted by JuliusCaesar

I remember watching a documentary about a woman who set out to break the world's record for having the most men ever (a woman with whom I had a slight personal connection) and it was the saddest, most ridiculous, revolting thing ever. The men queued, massaging their dicks to maintain their erections, to have a go while she squirmed supposedly in ecstacy. She took a break after every 30 men, and they were all supposed to wear condoms...but didn't.

I saw that a few years ago (on Channel 4, I think). IIRC she self-harms on camera. As you say, the whole thing was pretty sad and revolting.

[mrsdewinter]

So did anybody see last night's Primetime about prostitution in Ireland last night? Grim viewing but very interesting...

[Neyite]

Originally Posted by mrsdewinter

So did anybody see last night's Primetime about prostitution in Ireland last night? Grim viewing but very interesting...

I had one eye on it and one on boards. Bit sickening. But it seems the demand is there - those pimps were raking it in. And after all that, the woman at the end said that she got about €20 to €30 a day. If she was profiting out of her clients it wouldnt be so bad, but for pimps to? Ugh!