[Sierra Oscar]

Originally Posted by thebman

In fairness, FF's "issues" page which is the closest thing they have to a policies page on their current website that I can see and is just a categorised list of the News section from what I can see.

http://www.fiannafail.ie/issues/

Then you have the "constituition of Fianna Fail" which is so vague, you can't tell what they'd actually do to achieve any of things they supposedly stand for.

http://www.fiannafail.ie/content/pages/5097/

So they seem to not want people to know what their real policies are from what I can see.

We will revist the constitution and the policies after the Ard Fheis (occurring within a matter of weeks now). An entire new constitution is in the works alongside the formation of new policy. The deadline for motions for the Ard Fheis is in fact falling this very week so I suspect a Clár detailing the motions up for discussion will be made available shortly.

Very little to discuss on the policy side until after the Ard Fheis, which I have been pointing out for the last six months. You are right in saying that, currently, FF has no real coherent and structured policy platform. That will not even begin to emerge until after the various Ardfheiseanna which are due to occur in 2012.

Its not ideal - but I think its actually good that the collective membership of the party once again can direct party policy, rather than a narrow elite dictating to others what party policy shall be.

Also the FF website is not really worth a tuppence at the moment. It has not been properly updated in months - I suspect as 2012 advances you will see an entire new website being implemented (which will actually list policy and aims which were passed at the Ard Fheis to be built upon).

[transylman]

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

We will revist the constitution and the policies after the Ard Fheis (occurring within a matter of weeks now). An entire new constitution is in the works alongside the formation of new policy. The deadline for motions for the Ard Fheis is in fact falling this very week so I suspect a Clár detailing the motions up for discussion will be made available shortly.

Meh. I'm sure it will be the same old story. Heard it all before from the likes of Ahern and Haughey with their promises of change and a new start and an end to corruption etc etc.

Fact of the matter is that for all their dominance of irish politics their record is truly shocking. Multiple economic recessions directly attributable to their policies, populist pandering to the church, seemingly engrained corruption. Sure, every so often they throw up someone capable like Reynolds or Lemass, but for the most part it was incompetents, crooks, or both.

I just hope the electorate are wise enough to finally recognize this and those that had always voted FF distribute themselves among parties that actually stand for something.

[miju]

Originally Posted by Foxhound38

It's hard to be unbiased when you're talking about a group whos corruption and incompetence is internationally recognized

Interestingly enough FG / Lab dont seem to be reckoned to be any less corrupt than FF going by historical standards and thats international ratings too

[Liam Byrne]

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

I suspect as 2012 advances you will see an entire new website being implemented (which will actually list policy and aims which were passed at the Ard Fheis to be built upon).

And who'll be paying for that ? Another €40,000 wasted on €5,000 worth of a site ?

[tayto lover]

Originally Posted by Liam Byrne

And who'll be paying for that ? Another €40,000 wasted on €5,000 worth of a site ?

And it will ran by some crony.

[The Scientician]

The way I see it, unless things drastically improve during the timespan of the current Dáil then Fianna Fáil will be back in government next time, probably in a coalition. They won't be as strong as they were in the '90s/early '00s but if things keep heading south FG and Labour are going to be wiped out at the next general election. In this scenario Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and probably some of the other smaller parties and independents would see an increased shared of the vote on the last election. Would an FF/SF coalition be possible? (Here's hoping not!)

If, however, things start improving here before the next general election I would imagine FG/Labour or another FG coalition would be the next government. In which case I bet there'd still be a Fianna Fáil recovery of sorts by the following election as people get sick of Enda Kenny's mug.

I do wonder if all this turmoil continues, will any real alternative new parties emerge?

[Victor]

Originally Posted by The Scientician

Fianna Fáil will be back in government next time, probably in a coalition.

With who? Nobody would touch them with someone else's twelve foot barge pole. Even if FG/Labour lose 30 seats and FF gain 30, FG/Labour would still have a majority.

The only option would be a Tallaght Strategy situation.

[Chucky the tree]

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

We will revist the constitution and the policies after the Ard Fheis (occurring within a matter of weeks now). An entire new constitution is in the works alongside the formation of new policy. The deadline for motions for the Ard Fheis is in fact falling this very week so I suspect a Clár detailing the motions up for discussion will be made available shortly.

Very little to discuss on the policy side until after the Ard Fheis, which I have been pointing out for the last six months. You are right in saying that, currently, FF has no real coherent and structured policy platform. That will not even begin to emerge until after the various Ardfheiseanna which are due to occur in 2012.

Its not ideal - but I think its actually good that the collective membership of the party once again can direct party policy, rather than a narrow elite dictating to others what party policy shall be.

Also the FF website is not really worth a tuppence at the moment. It has not been properly updated in months - I suspect as 2012 advances you will see an entire new website being implemented (which will actually list policy and aims which were passed at the Ard Fheis to be built upon).

What are your views as to what policies the party should undertaking?

[goose2005]

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

Very little to discuss on the policy side until after the Ard Fheis, which I have been pointing out for the last six months. You are right in saying that, currently, FF has no real coherent and structured policy platform. That will not even begin to emerge until after the various Ardfheiseanna which are due to occur in 2012.

Out of interest, why are you a member of a party that has no real coherent and structured policy platform? What's the point?

[mistermouse]

I'd nearly hazzard the opinion that as it looks like there will be no real new alternative to FF, FG and Labour, that now is possibly the time for people who do have reasonable political opinions to look at organising a wholesale membership drive of Fianna Fail and create a decent party from within.

Given that it will have to restructure and is at a low ebb, its possibly ripe for a takeover as such!

The idea is probably not as unachievable or as unpalatable to many as joining the likes of Sinn Fein for example.

The biggest problem with Fianna Fail particularly in the past 10-15 years was that it was run by a very small group that looked after themselves, but there is probably quite a large amount of supporters that would like to follow a new direction and get rid of whatever remains of the old guard, which to many observers would also include current TDs that were ministers

[kbannon]

Originally Posted by mistermouse

I'd nearly hazzard the opinion that as it looks like there will be no real new alternative to FF, FG and Labour, that now is possibly the time for people who do have reasonable political opinions to look at organising a wholesale membership drive of Fianna Fail and create a decent party from within.

You mean instead of hoping that the party crumbles, I should join it and help rebuild it into a honest, meaningful and credible alternative?
I know that we need a decent opposition but seriously???

[PeterIanStaker]

FF, FG & SF are outdated washed up civil war parties who have nothing to offer Ireland except decades more of the same ould sh1te.

I hope FF in particular never recover, but don't underestimate the sheer stupidity of the Irish electorate and the natural subservience to the Almighty Gombeen. That and they still have their bootlickers in the Sunday Independent to do free PR for them. Sad really.

[Foxhound38]

Originally Posted by Mikel91

Lads honestly ye have no idea do ye.I dont mean to insult but my god...You both claim to have political interests but form what I cna tell you know as much as the average joe does.Do a bit more research into the party other than boards/politics.ie threads.

Liam especially you.My god we know you hate FF,We heard it through too the teeth.You constantly make accusations and ignore peoples posts fully.When ever a proper,decent discussion happens about the party,be the thread praising or criticing them..You hijack with several others and turn into one of those people that call Joe Duffy and scream down the phone making things into a non nonsensical rant.Please...just grow up /rant

You're clearly a FFer and not so neatly sidestepped my question regarding the difference between FF and FG - looking at it from a wider european perspective, I'm afraid it's not as self-evident as you seem to want to put it forward as.

Accusing others of knowing nothing about politics while refusing to deal with the issue raised is a fairly see-through attempt to be honest. Also, accusing others of being of Joe Duffy's ilk while having a nonsensical rant yourself is entertaining to say the least. Now answer the question like a good chap

[Foxhound38]

Originally Posted by miju

Interestingly enough FG / Lab dont seem to be reckoned to be any less corrupt than FF going by historical standards and thats international ratings too

Look at the tribunal numbers. FG has had few people hauled up in comparison, I don't think Labour has ever had anyone.

[miju]

Originally Posted by Foxhound38

Look at the tribunal numbers. FG has had few people hauled up in comparison, I don't think Labour has ever had anyone.

Well like I said the internation corruption tables seem to think we've more or less stayed the same tribunals or no