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14-10-2011, 21:28   #1
devil dog
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Tightest 5 shot group @ 1000 yards

Hi all,

Just wondering what is the tightest group @ 1000 yards and who shot it, or is there a record kept.
Was in midland last weekend and it was mentioned that some one from there has the group, but he did not know size of group, or the name.
Just got me wondering is all, some one might know.

Thanks Lads
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17-10-2011, 16:32   #2
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Light gun - Cody Finch, Kalispell, MT. Small 10 Shot Group - 3.835 inches, 1000 yards - shot on 8-12-06

Heavy gun 2010 World Record - 10 shots - 2.815 inches, 1000 yards - In September 2010, Matthew D. Kline shattered the existing Heavy Gun World Record, breaking the three-inch barrier for the first time. He used a 300 WSM topped with a Nightforce 8-32 x 56 Precision Benchrest scope.

If an Irish shooter claims that he or she can shoot like that, why aren't we hearing about it?

tac
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17-10-2011, 17:06   #3
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Is it the Irish record or the world record, and also what type of shooting as each discipline holds their own records. One i do know is Vince Bottomley. He held the record then broke his own.

Have a read of it here.
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17-10-2011, 17:14   #4
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Mr Bottomly holds the UK record with 5 shots with his light gun as noted in the site you quoted -

'The 7mm experiment was a huge success, and Vince now proudly owns the most accurate 1000-yard Light Gun in the United Kingdom'.

The figures that I quoted are for ten-shot groups, and are reportedly the current world best. I think you'd agree that shooting ten shots into this size group is substantially more difficult that shooting five such shots.

I'd be grateful to learn anything about Irish 1000 yard BR shooting in any category - either five or ten shots - an element of Irish shooting sports of which I know nothing at all. However, having written that, it has to be said that BR is 'owned' by handloaders, which gives the Irish shooter yet another fascinating aspect of shooting sport to look forward to.

tac

Last edited by tac foley; 17-10-2011 at 17:29.
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17-10-2011, 17:23   #5
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I've been reading some articles on Mr Bottomley's "exploits". While some think they are good shots, and some ar great shots, i find it amazing that this man builds his own rifles, and produces results like that. Unbelievable.

To get back to the point though the above is my very point. There are irish, British, american, and other records per country. Then world records, then records per discipline depending upin caliber, benchrest, F-Class, TR, etc, etc. The OP would need to be specific.

As to Irish records well i'm sure the NRAI would retain such records. There are benchrest shoots held throughout the year, and there have been some good results. I personally do not know what the smallest group shot is.

www.nrai.ie
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17-10-2011, 18:27   #6
devil dog
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Hi lad's,
sorry for the confusion,His Irish and it was done in midland a while back so this guy sad.

it was done with a 7mm @ 1000 yard's. This all came up in conversation one day and got me wondering because i never heard of any thing like that done with a 7mm or a .308 here in Ireland, just wondering is there one,and what size group was it and was it recorded.

Thanks again lad's







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17-10-2011, 18:30   #7
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Sir - the NRAI site advises its readers what BR is, but makes no mention of those Irish shooters who practice it, nor the results that they achieve doing so.

In any event, without the benefits of reloading, the sport is moot in the republic, excepting that factory ammunition is the only type that most of you can shoot.

However, that having been said, .22 calibre BR is an area where Irish shooters in the South have the opportunity to shine, in the present absence of general reloading for centre-fire calibres.

As for Mr Bottomley's 'unbelievable results' I assure you that they are very real. A man in his position in the shooting world, as well as being a top-class and highly-regarded author, is hardly going to try and fake his results in public with a suitably pointy pencil.

tac
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17-10-2011, 18:34   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devil dog View Post
Hi lad's,
sorry for the confusion,His Irish and it was done in midland a while back so this guy sad.

it was done with a 7mm @ 1000 yard's. This all came up in conversation one day and got me wondering because i never heard of any thing like that done with a 7mm or a .308 here in Ireland, just wondering is there one,and what size group was it and was it recorded.

Thanks again lad's

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Sadly - heresay groups do not count, only those shot under competition rules at properly organised BR competitions.

That said, I'd STILL like to see what was done, just like any other keen and appreciative shooter would.

tac
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17-10-2011, 18:50   #9
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Hi Tac,

I also would like to know if there's any their.

It would be grate to find out these results,so that a shooter he/she then can try
to become better, and know what,s out their to beet.

Thank's dd
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17-10-2011, 19:17   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tac foley View Post
Sir - the NRAI site advises its readers what BR is, but makes no mention of those Irish shooters who practice it, nor the results that they achieve doing so.
I said to contact the NRAI not that they were available to read on the site.

Quote:
In any event, without the benefits of reloading, the sport is moot in the republic, excepting that factory ammunition is the only type that most of you can shoot.

However, that having been said, .22 calibre BR is an area where Irish shooters in the South have the opportunity to shine, in the present absence of general reloading for centre-fire calibres.
So if a group is shot using factory ammo that somehow makes the achievement void?

Also the NRAI have reloading so again i'll ask what is your point?

Quote:
As for Mr Bottomley's 'unbelievable results' I assure you that they are very real. A man in his position in the shooting world, as well as being a top-class and highly-regarded author, is hardly going to try and fake his results in public with a suitably pointy pencil.

tac
Why do you always assume people are being negative. I said the ability of Vince is unbelievable. As in astounding not unachieveable.

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Sadly - heresay groups do not count, only those shot under competition rules at properly organised BR competitions.
The competitions being shot are organised by the NRAI therefore official and fully "legit". So any groups shot, records or not, would stand.

@ Devildog - I would suggest you e-mail the NRAI and they can better answer your questions.
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17-10-2011, 19:28   #11
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Hi Ezradix,

Thank's for you'r help,Tac thank's for your's.

I will sent that mail on, it would nice to see results so we know what we need to
beet and what's the standart like in our island.

Thank's again lad's.
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17-10-2011, 20:52   #12
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Dear Mr Ezridax - questions following on from your response to my well-intentioned post.

A VERY few persons in the Republic of Ireland are permitted to reload. Do they/you also shoot centre-fire BR as well as F-Class?

Do you mean that, apart from you, the rest of shooters in the Republic compete in BR using factory ammunition - something that places them at a distinct disadvantage by comparison with those who [can] reload?

As for Mr Bottomley's shooting prowess - you actually wrote the word 'unbelievable' - the definition of which is - 'not to be believed, incredible > not to be given credibilty'. Sadly, the tone in which you wrote it does not come over on the board, simply the word. I therefore judged that you did not believe his shooting achievement to be factual.

Have we ever met? Did I knock over your beer somewhere without apologising? There just has to be some reason that every time I post something, often in an admitted ignorance of the way that you do things 'over there', instead of putting me right in a friendly manner you are right there to shoot me down. I am always polite to you, as my few posts would show - but you respond to me without using my name, and without any apparent sense of fellowship in the sport we both share in our different ways.

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17-10-2011, 21:28   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tac foley View Post
A VERY few persons in the Republic of Ireland are permitted to reload. Do they/you also shoot centre-fire BR as well as F-Class?
Yes.

Quote:
Do you mean that, apart from you, the rest of shooters in the Republic compete in BR using factory ammunition - something that places them at a distinct disadvantage by comparison with those who [can] reload?
I cannot speak for the rest of the shooters in the ROI. Yes factory ammo places the participant at a disadvantage, but if a record group is achieved, by chance even, then it is not somehow less valid due to the nature of the round used.

Quote:
As for Mr Bottomley's shooting prowess - you actually wrote the word 'unbelievable' - the definition of which is - 'not to be believed, incredible > not to be given credibilty'. Sadly, the tone in which you wrote it does not come over on the board, simply the word. I therefore judged that you did not believe his shooting achievement to be factual.
I spoke from an admiration point of view. Your inference is not my probelm. How could i possibly insult or belittle a man or his achievements when i have not met him. I respect him for his ability and had i intended to insult him i would have done so plainly and concisely.

Should you choose to takke every post on a "dictionary" point of view i can see your future filled with such petty arguments where the poster must explain themselves to you. I however shall not be one of those people.

Quote:
Have we ever met? Did I knock over your beer somewhere without apologising? There just has to be some reason that every time I post something, often in an admitted ignorance of the way that you do things 'over there', instead of putting me right in a friendly manner you are right there to shoot me down.

Okay cards on the table time. You could have simply asked for clarification on my post. As you yourself have admitted, sometimes you do not fully understand posts or their content because of your lack of ability to see emoticons. Lack of understanding of colloquialisms. Lack of understanding of humour, etc, etc. You did not. Instead you mistakeningly took your inference and jumped to the defense of a person i had not insulted.


Quote:
I am always polite to you, as my few posts would show - but you respond to me without using my name, and without any apparent sense of fellowship in the sport we both share in our different ways.

tac
The use of the word "Sir" before your posts does not indictate politeness, but taken in context can denote condescension, insult, lack of patience, belittling, etc. So politeness does not always refer to the words used, and should include the tone of the post.

Secondly i respond to any thread i feel like as everyone is free to do. If you do not wish to speak to me or listen to my point of view then perhaps posting on any forum is not for you.

Thirdly you bring up the issue of reloading at every given opportunity although the outcome of who gets it has no effect on you because, as you are so fond of pointing out, you do not live in Ireland. You have on many occassions refered to the membes of the NRAI/MNSCI as eliteists in a disrespectful tone although you have never met any of them. You constantly challenge/question the validity of us having reloading, and instead of being grateful that some organisation successfully got reloading that keeps the option open for others to possibly get it, you criticise the fact that no-one else has it which creates tension and ill feeling with your comments.

So while i have no personal problem with you i do dislike the attitude you have towards aspects of shooting in Ireland. All of that aside none of this would have been necessary had you simply asked "Do you not believe Mr Bottemley could achieve these results or do you find it astounding/amazing/excellent?" You did not and choose this very public spat.
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17-10-2011, 21:43   #14
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Sir - I was brought up to be polite, and call everybody 'Sir'. Where I come from it's quite customary.

You are quite mistaken about my attitude to reloading, BTW, indeed, I am more supportive of it than you could imagine, having been instrumental in the submission of one of the few responses to the DoJ with regard to it. If I had my way then it would already be a fait accompli for EVERY shooter in the Republic who wished to avail themselves of it.

However, the rest of your response simply shows me why I am one of the few, if not the only, foreigner ever to join in this board. As for responding to a post in any way you choose to do so, disregarding common courtesy, then that is not the way to run an open discussion nor to hear another person's opinion. In my short time here I've learned a lot, and offered opinions and advice without rancour.

It's very odd that I can post effectively on nine other websites without causing upset, but not this one.

I WILL, however, take your hint, and leave this one to you.

Thank you and goodbye.

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17-10-2011, 22:02   #15
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Originally Posted by tac foley View Post
You are quite mistaken about my attitude to reloading, BTW, indeed, I am more supportive of it than you could imagine, having been instrumental in the submission of one of the few responses to the DoJ with regard to it. If I had my way then it would already be a fait accompli for EVERY shooter in the Republic who wished to avail themselves of it.
Had we all our way we would all have reloading, but its not our decision to make so the constant reminder that we are in the minority of countries in relation to reloading is pointless as we, shooters, have no power to affect change.

I remember you saying that you had an involvement in the submission of an application for reloading, but i also remember your comment about how those with reloading were "elitists" or "the chosen few". Not exactly a statment of support, but comes across more as a derogatory remark. As was said above about your inference of my post, that is my inference of yours. So if i'm mistaken then you can see how comments can be easily misunderstood.

Quote:
However, the rest of your response simply shows me why I am one of the few, if not the only, foreigner ever to join in this board.
You are not in such a small minority as you think. You are the only one to constantly bring it up yourself, with comments about your place of residence, and your reference to yourself as a foreigner. I never asked you where you live as it is of no concern to me. If i have an issue it will be with your post, not you.

Quote:
As for responding to a post in any way you choose to do so, disregarding common courtesy, then that is not the way to run an open discussion nor to hear another person's opinion. In my short time here I've learned a lot, and offered opinions and advice without rancour.
You are once again emblishing a point made by me. I said i am free to respond to any thread, not that i am free to respond in any way, manner i choose with any attitude i please, as this is against common courtesy and forum rules of being civil to one another. however it is not a one way street and your refusal to find any fault with anything you do prohibits me from trying to have a conversation with you on a meaningful level.

Quote:
It's very odd that I can post effectively on nine other websites without causing upset, but not this one.
Thats a shame. Either everyone on those sites share your views completely or they simply do not question you as i do here. However that is part and parcel of a discussion forum. to talk about things not have endless threads of multiple users agreeing with each other.
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