[katierose1]

Originally Posted by Poor Uncle Tom

If you or others feel strongly enough about it, then you will need to employ an Architect, Technician or Engineer versed in the appeals proceedure to sort out an appeal on your behalf or through your solicitor. Remember you have 28 days from the date of the Local Authority granting the planning permission to you lodging a valid appeal with An Bord Pleanala.

Your agent should be able to decide with you if there are sufficient grounds for an appeal.

OP, if you have any concerns about your ability to respond to a planning application, a properly qualified planning consultant is the best person to advise. Some architects, ATs and Engineers will have experience of the planning process regarding individual applications, one-off developments and such but a qualified planning consultant will have a comprehensive knowledge of the planning system and be well versed in submissions, objections and, most importantly, the appeals process. It's a pity planners aren't consulted more often -especially in cases like this where a community issue is involved.

If you objected to the original application, you should also submit a comment to an Bord Pleanala if the decision is appealed. This is important as the Bord consider all application as if they were new applications.

[rayjdav]

Originally Posted by katierose1

Some architects, ATs and Engineers will have experience of the planning process regarding individual applications, one-off developments and such but a qualified planning consultant will have a comprehensive knowledge of the planning system and be well versed in submissions, objections and, most importantly, the appeals process. It's a pity planners aren't consulted more often -especially in cases like this where a community issue is involved.

Katierose1,
Sorry, but could not let this go, I tried

If you care to hang around here you will see that there are MANY AT's/Arch's that are VERY WELL versed and have very comprehensive knowledge of the complete Planning System.
Do agree that in a situation involving a respected Multi-National's application, some form of professional should be employed, be it AT/Arch/Eng. and even Planning Consultant....

[katierose1]

Originally Posted by rayjdav

Katierose1,
Sorry, but could not let this go, I tried

If you care to hang around here you will see that there are MANY AT's/Arch's that are VERY WELL versed and have very comprehensive knowledge of the complete Planning System.
Do agree that in a situation involving a respected Multi-National's application, some form of professional should be employed, be it AT/Arch/Eng. and even Planning Consultant....

I don't entirely disagree with you - especially as those who submit to Boards will be interested and probably have sufficient knowledge - but not all ATs/Archs/Engs will!

Unlike architects, there is little restriction on who can set themselves up as a 'planning consultant' at the moment, although there are plans to change this. AFAIK, most architect's courses will have modules in planning but not many other professions will, unless it is those limited aspects of planning directly related to their specific discipline.


Most people who submit a planning application will hopefully have an appropriate level of knowledge or an agent who knows what they are doing - this isn't really an issue for simple applications, especially as most architects can deal with these. The bigger applications will always employ someone who is qualified in planning.

In a case like this, (the OPs) , a member of the public or community group responding to an application - it can be difficult to know where to go for advice (especially at appeal stage, where the time is short) but so often a qualified planner isn't even considered (possibly because most people believe planners are only employed by the councils?)

I would firmly advise anyone objecting to an appeal to at least consider having some professional advice - it is amazing how much a properly worded concise letter can achieve. If an appeal goes to an oral hearing, even more so - as these are often court-like in their set up, with the multi-national employing a barrister and a range of consultants.

The tactic of submitting an amended application while another is under appeal is not unheard of - it can confuse objectors and the company involved can always withdraw either their application or appeal, whichever comes out first in their favour..... keep an eye on both.

[shomershabbas]

I am unemployed so I can't afford to pay for the services of an architect or planning consultant. One would think that the planning process is fairly clearly defined and when an application to build a development that contravenes the council's own development plan for that area, then that should be enough to stop it.

[shomershabbas]

Also, Sinnerboy, I don't think there is any need for the huge flag waving! I've nothing against Germans, Aldi or Lidl. I shop in my local Aldi often. This is simply a case of bad planning.

[sydthebeat]

Originally Posted by shomershabbas

Also, Sinnerboy, I don't think there is any need for the huge flag waving! I've nothing against Germans, Aldi or Lidl. I shop in my local Aldi often. This is simply a case of bad planning.

shemora, you have only two posts so far in this thread so its hard to gain exactly whats happening here but a few pointers:

1. as you live in an estate, is there enough of a feeling within to create a focus group where you can all pitch in and hire someone? or share out appeal costs.....

2. have you made a submission yet on the newer application? what exactly are the modifications between the first and second application?

[Poor Uncle Tom]

Originally Posted by Poor Uncle Tom

If you or others feel strongly enough about it, then you will need to employ an Architect, Technician or Engineer versed in the appeals proceedure to sort out an appeal on your behalf or through your solicitor. Remember you have 28 days from the date of the Local Authority granting the planning permission to you lodging a valid appeal with An Bord Pleanala.

Your agent should be able to decide with you if there are sufficient grounds for an appeal.

I believe the highlighted section above explains where I was coming from with that statement.

Originally Posted by katierose1

OP, if you have any concerns about your ability to respond to a planning application, a properly qualified planning consultant is the best person to advise. Some architects, ATs and Engineers will have experience of the planning process regarding individual applications, one-off developments and such but a qualified planning consultant will have a comprehensive knowledge of the planning system and be well versed in submissions, objections and, most importantly, the appeals process. It's a pity planners aren't consulted more often -especially in cases like this where a community issue is involved.

I make no apology for recommending someone in my profession, provided they are versed in the procedure, as stated above.

Originally Posted by katierose1

I don't entirely disagree with you - especially as those who submit to Boards will be interested and probably have sufficient knowledge - but not all ATs/Archs/Engs will!

For an appeal of the nature described, I believe experience in the procedure will prove more valuable than the profession of the agent.

Originally Posted by katierose1

Unlike architects, there is little restriction on who can set themselves up as a 'planning consultant' at the moment, although there are plans to change this. AFAIK, most architect's courses will have modules in planning but not many other professions will, unless it is those limited aspects of planning directly related to their specific discipline.

More reason to get someone well versed in the appeals procedure.

Originally Posted by katierose1

but so often a qualified planner isn't even considered (possibly because most people believe planners are only employed by the councils?)

Highlighting the profile of the profession may help, but this is not the forum for that, and given that "there is little restriction on who can set themselves up as a 'planning consultant' at the moment," is it any wonder?

Originally Posted by katierose1

I would firmly advise anyone objecting to an appeal to at least consider having some professional advice

Agreed 100%

[Mellor]

Originally Posted by katierose1

Unlike architects, there is little restriction on who can set themselves up as a 'planning consultant' at the moment, although there are plans to change this. AFAIK, most architect's courses will have modules in planning but not many other professions will, unless it is those limited aspects of planning directly related to their specific discipline.

You appear to not separate (or are unaware of the difference) between Architects and Architectural Technologists

To clarify,
Architects have professional title protection, ATs do not
ATs also study the planning system in a similar capacity to Architects

[shomershabbas]

Originally Posted by sydthebeat

shemora, you have only two posts so far in this thread so its hard to gain exactly whats happening here but a few pointers:

1. as you live in an estate, is there enough of a feeling within to create a focus group where you can all pitch in and hire someone? or share out appeal costs.....

2. have you made a submission yet on the newer application? what exactly are the modifications between the first and second application?

Yes, there is a focus group organised by a third party and I think that if the appeal is successful a professional may be hired with shared costs.

The second application (11/34835) was refused on 21/6/2011. The first application is at appeal stage.The first application included two additional small retail units to the standard Lidl shopping centre, car park and signage as seen throughout the country. These retail units were dropped in the second application.
The reasons given for the refusal of the second application are, in summary:
1. The area is zoned for "Residential, Local Services and Institutional Uses" in the Cork City Development Plan 2009 and the nature and the scale of the proposed development does not adhere to this.
2. Area would not cope with extra traffic, noise and activity and the value of residential property in the area would depreciate.