RDF Discussion

[Remmy]

Right,This following post is going to sound very Waltish so bear with me.

There seems to be a general consensus on this board and some other forums that the RDF are not as competant as they should be.
I'm not suggesting they receive a large budget but do you think their competance is directly proportinal to the amount of training time they receive?
I know the British TA receive a much bigger budget and are more integreted with the modern army with 'incentives' to keep working through the ranks such as specialised units.They a better regarded because of this.

Or is it our Societys lack if leeway with time-off and proper recognition of the Reserve Defence Forces?

Or am I off the mark and to they do the best they can with the limited budget they receive?

Also are the RDF logistically independant of The PDF apart from ground used?As in do they have their own vehicles serviced and driven by them?Same question directed towards firearms?

Would there be any potential roadblocks with introducing a year's mandatory military service?Could our Country afford it or would society see it as socially repugnant.What are peoples opinion on this?

thanks in advance.

[minidazzler]

The requirement for fitness and the amount of training are all that really separate the RDF from the PDF.

If you think about it, when people join either organisation, they are basically the same, generally young 17-22.

It's illogical to think there is more than that seperating the organisations.

Of course there is also experience on behalf of the PDF, a shared collective even, but that can fall under training.

The RDF budget is quite tiny really, so you have to say yes the best is done with what is given.

Not exactly logistically independant, but in some ways.

Vehicles are all services by the Corps of Transport???

Yes, the roadblocks to mandatory military service would be, lack of financing, lack of motivation for the govt, lack of reasons and lack of public support!

[Dean0088]

I was going to join the RDF - until I talked to a few people and heared some horror stories of people attending training and waiting around doing nothing because NCOs didn't show up, lack of numbers, no equipment and sometimes, no uniforms!

I think most of the problems in the RDF come down to how people are admitted. There should be a fitness test to get it, a better personality test to ensure only people who want to become part of a capable part time force get in. Same as the PDF.

The reason why the coast guard and civil defense are very professional and respected is because they don't allow scumbags in and have proper training.

Needs to be reorganised with entrance tests, more funding and new facilities to accomidate them somewhat independently of the PDF (although I'm not suggesting building totally separate barracks etc...) once the force doesn;t rely upon the PDF for everything.

May god help the country should they ever be needed in a defence situation in their current state.

[OS119]

the fundamental problem with the RDF is that its members, the PDF, the political class, and the public all know that the RDF will never be called upon to do the task that the RDF exists to carry out.

there is no interest in creating a 'one Army' context in which RDF units/personel are used as part of the Army in a day-to-day role, and the RDF is so far from combat capability/readiness that the idea of it being a useful combat force in times of national emergency is laughable.

if something is never going to be used, no one gives a shit if it works - all its problems: recruitment, commitment, enabling legislation, funding, etc, all stem from that.

[Morphéus]

Originally Posted by Dean0088

I was going to join the RDF - until I talked to a few people and heared some horror stories of people attending training and waiting around doing nothing because NCOs didn't show up, lack of numbers, no equipment and sometimes, no uniforms!

So you based your decision to NOT join on the hearsay from some friends cousins auntys sons mates dad? If there was no recruitment embargo at the time you were considering joining, why didnt you go up and try it out? It costs nothing and you may have found that the information sources were wrong. Not all units have bad reputations.

Originally Posted by Dean0088

I think most of the problems in the RDF come down to how people are admitted.

You arent in the force so how do you know this? there are different issues effecting the reserve and if you arent in then you wont know which are the worst ones.

Originally Posted by Dean0088

The reason why the coast guard and civil defense are very professional and respected is because they don't allow scumbags in and have proper training.

You have evidence that the defence forces allow scumbags to join? Are you sure? Dont the coast guard and civil defence use similiar recruitment requirements? Dont the 3 services have to submit you to a garda check? In my experience, scumbags do not like being told what to do and dont take to the chain of command too well and therefore dont last long, it also helps that if you are a scumbag, you wont make many friends in your unit as when you f**k up, its not just you that has to take the fallout.

Originally Posted by Dean0088

Needs to be reorganised with entrance tests, more funding and new facilities to accomidate them somewhat independently of the PDF (although I'm not suggesting building totally separate barracks etc...) once the force doesn;t rely upon the PDF for everything.

May god help the country should they ever be needed in a defence situation in their current state.

There is need for more equipment etc but there are not too many problems sharing barracks, we are a reserve force, we are there to assist our parent units, we should be MORE integrated with them NOT less.

Come back when you know more about that of which you speak, I appreciate your lack of enthusiasm and admit that yes there are problems with the force, but at least read over these forums and do some research and speak directly to members to understand the full spectrum of challenges faced by reservists in todays army. There are many many pro's to being in the RDF, thankfully for me at least they still outweigh the con's, otherwise I wouldnt be entering my 6th years service.

regards
morph.

[Dean0088]

[QUOTE=Morphéus;64368408]

So you based your decision to NOT join on the hearsay from some friends cousins auntys sons mates dad? If there was no recruitment embargo at the time you were considering joining, why didnt you go up and try it out? It costs nothing and you may have found that the information sources were wrong. Not all units have bad reputations.

No, that would be retarded. I based my decision to not join the RDF by talking to friends and relatives who were and are in it. A close friend of mine IS an NCO in a dublin based unit (62nd Inf) and he said many of the NCOs don;t turn up and when they do they might instruct for half the alloted time. He also said that there were problems with diciplin and getting people to show up regularly. Unfortunately, the minute I turned 17 (my name was on the waiting list) they put a ban on recruiting because of the recession. AFAIK this is still in place.

You're right, not all units have bad reputations. And I wouldn't assume as such. In fact, the very fact that I know dedicated people in it tells me otherwise. But a lot of units do or at the very least only show up for the honeymoon period where wearing a uniform is 'cool'. You cannot deny there are problems with people showing up to 'shoot guns' on their first camp then disappearing into the abyss.

You arent in the force so how do you know this? there are different issues effecting the reserve and if you arent in then you wont know which are the worst ones.

Em...the RDF isn;t MI6. The general public is aware of its operational capacity and what goes on in there. Again, that's not to say there aren't dedicated untits. I know of PDF leadership singling out certain units and relying on them hen the PDF are away etc... But I think, that due to entrance tests, the standard of personell is low (in a structured organisation, a few bad apples bring the whole team down).

You have evidence that the defence forces allow scumbags to join? Are you sure? Dont the coast guard and civil defence use similiar recruitment requirements? Dont the 3 services have to submit you to a garda check?

Oh come on now! The army attracts scum (not all, but a few of them are) because of its very nature. You think the same romantic image applies to the civil defence??? Everyone knows scumbags who joined the RDF. And the sad thing is that one or two of them in a unit bring it down to a bad level. Armies rely on one another - it's a shame. They should be kicked out.

In my experience, scumbags do not like being told what to do and dont take to the chain of command too well and therefore dont last long, it also helps that if you are a scumbag, you wont make many friends in your unit as when you f**k up, its not just you that has to take the fallout.

You're right. They don;t. If the RDF was more active and was better struictured these fools would quickly be weeded out. But many remain because they can get pints for 2.50, shoot a few guns a few times a year and have the stature to say "I'm in de armeyyyy".

There is need for more equipment etc but there are not too many problems sharing barracks, we are a reserve force, we are there to assist our parent units, we should be MORE integrated with them NOT less.

What I meant was this: The RDF should be able to stand on its own to legs by being given funding etc... That way, it COULD be more integrated with the PDF in training maneuvers, logistics and even deployment should they ever be needed.

Come back when you know more about that of which you speak, I appreciate your lack of enthusiasm and admit that yes there are problems with the force, but at least read over these forums and do some research and speak directly to members to understand the full spectrum of challenges faced by reservists in todays army.

I know more than your average person. Mainly because I spend two years wanting to join the force before being turned down at the recruitment office when the ban came in. I frequent this thread quite regularly, and have spoken to RDF on here. So I;d like to think I'm fairly well educated on the subject. That's not to undermine your first-hand experience however.

There are many many pro's to being in the RDF, thankfully for me at least they still outweigh the con's, otherwise I wouldnt be entering my 6th years service.

Indeed there are. Firstly, it beats doing **** all on a tuesday and sunday night. Also, it looks brilliant on a CV. Thirdly, for anyone who actually wants to become a member of a capable force then it's heaven. Fair play for being in the RDF six years. But surely, in that time, you must have noticed how the RDF is badly contaminated and given a bad name by people who want to put on a green cap, drink cheap booze, shoot a Steyr and then act mad.

-- Dean.

[starviewadams]

Badly contaminated?There was not one scumbag in my unit during my time in the RDF(2005-09)and the people who ''turn up who want to put on a green cap, drink cheap booze, shoot a Steyr and then act mad'' dont usually last more then a week or two of foot drill in the square in the lashing rain,certainly not enough time to be sworn in,which takes quite a while with medicals and the Garda background check.

When on camp during the summer,you might see a few dozey pr!cks from other units, people who think they're GI Joe or whatever,but scumbags wouldn't last too long in the RDF.

[Morphéus]

Im not going to get into a shooting war over things here but regarding scummers, in my own unit, you either toe the line and muck in or (without contravening A7) you are made to understand that it is in the best interests of the defence forces and yourself that you decide to take yourself out of the service. I know of no scumbags that have lasted as far as 3 stars as it involves putting one foot infront of the other in time with your fellow recruits and constant verbal battering by your NCO's makes life too tough. Sure some scumbags MIGHT join, but if they LAST that long, the scum is uually washed out, just leaving us with a ... dare i say it... bag

[Scouser]

The RDF is an incredibly worth while organisation and I would encourage any young person to join.

I do agree that their are shortcoming and failures in the organisation with regard to its structure and effectiveness but its not the fault of individual units, more so the system.

Ireland is a small nation of 4.5million people and the PDF numbers 10,000. Such as small nation as ours needs a sizeable reserve as it cannot support more permanent members. So i would invisage the RDF to be around for quite some time.

I would be quite willing to recommend units that are active and effective to any potential RDF recruit and warn them of those units which would be a waste of time, ahem Air Defence ahem.

The RDF is a classic case of 'you get out of it what you put in'.

if your just going down to drink tax free beer and get a snazzy uniform you wont last pissin time.

i was waiting 9months to be security cleared, medically cleared and attested before i got near a uniform or a rifle.

Your first night on the square in the rain being marched around will envoke one of two responses. You'll either run away or join up immediatly.

give yourself one night. go down to your local barracks and ask the NCO on the gate for directions to the RDF unit. the next few hours could change your opinion.

when your recruit camp rolls around, your in for an excellent experience

[OS119]

Originally Posted by Scouser

The RDF is an incredibly worth while organisation and I would encourage any young person to join.

I do agree that their are shortcoming and failures in the organisation with regard to its structure and effectiveness but its not the fault of individual units, more so the system.

Ireland is a small nation of 4.5million people and the PDF numbers 10,000. Such as small nation as ours needs a sizeable reserve as it cannot support more permanent members. So i would invisage the RDF to be around for quite some time.

I would be quite willing to recommend units that are active and effective to any potential RDF recruit and warn them of those units which would be a waste of time, ahem Air Defence ahem.

The RDF is a classic case of 'you get out of it what you put in'.

if your just going down to drink tax free beer and get a snazzy uniform you wont last pissin time.

i was waiting 9months to be security cleared, medically cleared and attested before i got near a uniform or a rifle.

Your first night on the square in the rain being marched around will envoke one of two responses. You'll either run away or join up immediatly.

give yourself one night. go down to your local barracks and ask the NCO on the gate for directions to the RDF unit. the next few hours could change your opinion.

when your recruit camp rolls around, your in for an excellent experience

thats great, nobody denies that the individual can get an enormous amount from the RDF - but what does the RDF contribute to the real military capability of the state?

[Remmy]

Originally Posted by OS119

thats great, nobody denies that the individual can get an enormous amount from the RDF - but what does the RDF contribute to the real military capability of the state?

Yeah thats what I was kinda getting at with my original post.ask not what your country can do for you and so on and so forth

[Scouser]

Originally Posted by Remmy

Yeah thats what I was kinda getting at with my original post.ask not what your country can do for you and so on and so forth

well it offers a pool of trained infantry reservists aswell as an experienced combat support service.

the way the RDF is set up is so it can function on its own. this may or may not be able to happen, but you can be damn sure they can slot into the PDF operational structure.

the AD is 75% reserve so thats a huge militaristic offering from reserves. medical experience is vast aswell as specialist training in CIS and Transport

[Morphéus]

ok

im infantry, when the embargo ends, you should join a decent infantry company, ive had bags of fun since I joined and found it very rewarding over the last few years.

but as far as im aware, our country cousins in the Air defence are one of the most integrated units in the force. Therefore to slate those fly swatters as a waste of time is probably a little harsh! We grunts know that most other corps dont like getting their feet wet and prefer to sip ice tea from the back of a nissan, but credit where credits due! The Arty boys cant hear us anyway (they also usually aim at us!) and as for the cav.....

[BigDuffman]

Not going to bother repeating what has been said in the above points. There are a lot of benefits to the RDF and an equal amount of pit falls. Despite what seasoned black hats say, any exposure to a military (albeit part-time, weekend warrior) lifestyle is advantageous.

For example out of the current crop of cadets I personally know and have either trained or trained with 4 of them (although there are many more than that this year). All of whom have found it a benefit. Same goes with the previous years cadet class / PDF recruits.

It also gives walter mitty types an outlet to realize that being shouted at is not for them...as in 17 years of age. Played COD MW2, watched Black Hawk Down and wants to join the army. Joins the RDF realizes being disciplined and waking up at 0630 is not for them and does not bother applying to PDF and wasting their time. Look at it as a staging ground.

A universal rule in all things practical realizes that level of ability is proportionate to the level of training received. Our instructors need better training. The POTs should be trained by PDF instructors or by RDF integrated under PDF control. The standards would then drip down through the ranks. The same standards per rank should be met by RDF as per the PDF. It will take longer but will increase ability and respect between organizations.

Cadre should be active in their roll. Not just riding out their time till they can go on their ticket. A cadre training Sgt. should be actively involved in training. Not just drawing keys and drinking tea.

Applicants should be interviewed and screened. A Garda check does not do anything other than check if they've been caught for being bold. Within 15 mins you can tell if some-one is trouble/lacking mental facilities/weird/Incapable. The days where everyone can get in should end ASAP scum and wasters never last..but they do take up valuable time and resources. An NCO should not have to waster their time on some muppet who is only in it for a uniform. I've been in this situation before..where I could tell from day one that individuals where counter productive, bad for morale and definitely would not last.

But duty as an NCO means you train everyone. Even though it is known that by us having to process paper work, train and equip what will essentially be a black hole of resources is detrimental to the over all objective.

Yearly ARPs and Fitness Tests must be completed or be shown the door. Over-weight and unfit slobs give the organization a terrible reputation. (No excuse for being unfit if you want to serve in a "combat ready" organization).

Standardization. There is a huge and notable difference in skills and level of training between units. Some-one for the love of god enforce SOPs.

Make the RDF valuable to the PDF. As it stands there is no real practical and applicable use in the organizations current remit.
The powers that be should write down what the RDF could / should be used for. And then train them for that roll. If a barrack guard, CIT or driver is needed. Give the people in question the level of training needed (over a period of time) so as that they can be a resource used to support the PDF. And that the PDF will know that they can have confidence and trust in the volunteers ability.

[Scouser]

Originally Posted by Morphéus

ok

our country cousins in the Air defence are one of the most integrated units in the force.

not nearly true! they love to wheel that out when recruiting young people and it couldnt be further from the truth. they dnt get integrated grat for a start!

and you can take that as fact from an AD Gunner!