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Sit bone experiments for saddle fit

  • 10-05-2009 8:05pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭


    As the WW200 approaches, I've been puzzling over saddle fit as I get quite uncomfortable after the first 3 hours or so on the bike. I read that "you should be as comfortable after 5 hours as after 5 minutes", so I did some Googling and experiments.

    There are a few mentions on the web of the Specialized Body Geometry saddle fitting system, otherwise known as the "assometer". This is a pad on which you sit in order to get a sit bone measurement, which is then mapped to recommended saddle widths using a scale on the back.

    All very good, and although the scale is no longer available on Specialized's website, I found this in a forum:

    "The code on the back of the assometer specifies a 130 saddle for a sitbone center to center width of 100 mm or less, a 143 saddle for a sitbone center to center of 100 mm to 130mm and a 155 for a sitbone center to center of 130 or more."

    Right. Except that apparently Specialized USA end up selling almost everyone a 143 saddle.

    But most "racing" saddles (ProLogo, Fizik etc) come in sizes from 130-138mm.

    This raises some questions, like:

    - Do Americans have consistently wide "asses"? What about us Europeans?
    - Is this fit system remotely personal, or just a sales tool?
    - Do racing saddles fit anyone?

    I read that sit bones get narrow as the pelvis rotates down, which would explain how the thinner racing saddles fit the pros, but little quantitative information.

    So I got out the play-doh, rolling pin, clingfilm and tape measure and established that:

    - Measured sitting against a wall, my sit bones are 110mm apart, centre-centre.
    - Measured in a cycling position (plasticine on chopping board on chair) my sit bones are less than 80mm apart c-c.
    - Pros typically ride with their chin significantly less than 40cm above the bars (more like 35cm) when on the hoods* whereas mine is more like 45cm.

    From this I conclude that:

    - I have a more relaxed cycling position than the pros (no surprise)
    - There is a huge variation is sit bone spacing depending on riding position, which will affect saddle fit.
    - Sitting up, I am marginal for a 136mm saddle**, as I don't feel very stable; my sit bones are on the sloping sides of the saddle, not the central part. Deep in the drops, it's significantly more stable, and it would probably be perfect if I rode a bit more aero.

    Hope this will be of some use to someone, just sharing!

    * Photoshop measurements compared to wheel diameter.

    ** Prologo Pass NAS borrowed from CSS. It's easier to feel my bone position on this than my Selle Italia, for some reason.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    I have been thinking of this, but not as scientifically as you.

    I have some mild discomfort on the bike as I recon I am slightly reaching for the hoods.
    To alleviate this (until I fit a shorter stem), I have moved the saddle slightly forward. Since then, I have been getting a pain in the ass bone under the cheek of my left buttock..

    If what you say is tru, I am now sitting on a wider part of the saddle than I am used to.
    I will push it back a little to see if pain goes away.

    I guess i should just go get a shorter stem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    ROK ON wrote: »
    If what you say is tru, I am now sitting on a wider part of the saddle than I am used to.

    This whole area confuses me. Which bit are you supposed to sit on? I assume the wide bit at the back, or is that just for when you're sitting up - are you supposed to roll forward onto the narrower bit when you're in the drops?

    The Prologo website lists the PAS (perineal area system, i.e. big cutout) as being for short to medium length rides. The Pros don't seem to use cutout saddles. Consistent with this, I've also read that perineal issues affect tourers and MTBs more than roadies, presumably because the sensitive bits (nerves? blood supply?) rotate out of the way as you drop down.

    Personally I rank erectile function above saddle sore prevention, but it would be nice to have both. :pac:


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Or you could just do what the old Tour riders used to do, stick a steak in your shorts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭Home:Ballyhoura


    Hi there! I have a one of these Selle SMP Composite saddle's out on trial at the moment. There is one huge gap down the middle, nearly big enough to fit your whole hand through! The back of the saddle has a sort of rear wing spoiler, but the middle of the saddle is supposed to be ridden horizontal. The nose of the saddle has a drastic bend on it, and dips to point towards the ground. The idea is that there is no padding whatsoever, just two rails onto which just your two sitbones rest upon and nothing else (sensitive parts etc). The tips of these two rails are slightly flattened, and the distance between them varies along the saddle. Towards the back, they are 145mm along the middle of the flat bit 140mm and a bit further towards the front 135mm. At the very tip/nose of the saddle where you would be positioned in a TT, they are a mere <130mm apart! As the OP said, your sitbone width varies with position, this saddle seems to have been designed with that in mind. The lower the body postion you take up (i.e. in the drops), the more forward you tend to sit in the saddle.

    As someone said earlier, no pro's use saddles with cutouts? Maybe they help prvent saddle sores (at least this one seems to in my experience!), but do they cause more serious damage to the important stuff? Maybe everything is squashed down the hole with nowhere else to go, I don't know. Maybe we are going into to much detail here, but I think it's a very important issue and one that I will be taking very seriously!

    My lbs is charging in the region of €240 for this saddle while it is cheaper on CRC for €160 (still not cheap, no bargains here!). I'm not sure whether I am willing to spend this much. If it does help, then maybe but I want to make sure this saddle won't cause me any damage first! I could maybe try the Specialized BG Toupe first at less than half the price, I've heard some good reviews about it (but I know already, saddles are personal things!)

    2906542139_1deb3344b3_b.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Sorry to bump my own thread, but I finally came across the Specialized chart, so thought I'd post for completeness.

    This confirms the effect of cycling position on choice of saddle width:

    80745.png

    From here and here.

    edit: and for elimination of doubt, this says:
    If your sitbones are between 70 & 100mm, you should ride a 130mm saddle, unless you ride in an upright, comfort position. Then you should ride a 143.

    If your sitbones are between 100 & 130mm, you should ride a 143mm, unless you ride in a very upright, comfort position. Then you should ride a 155

    If your sitbones measure out between 130mm and 160mm, and you ride a very Aerodynamic, racing or triathlon position, you should ride a 143mm saddle. All other riding positions should use a 155.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭Murph100


    Hey Lumen, cheers for that elusive Specialized chart, very interesting. I actually went and got the Nago PAS, and as you say you definitely know where your sit bones are when perched on that ! But to be fair there is not the slightest bit of pressure on the ' really important sensitive area ', even when completely flat in the drops.

    I've done a couple of 4 hour stints with the Nago so far and the only complaint I would have is that my sit bones really hurt afterwards, but perhaps they will toughen up a bit in time.

    I also had the Prologo Scratch on demo which was really super comfy BUT put tons of pressure on the perineum, definitely not a healthy option for my shape.

    I just bought a Selle Italia SLR Carbonio Flow as an alternative to the Nago. Took it out for a 4 hour spin yesterday and its was perfect !! Actually more comfy than the Nago, no extreme pressure on the sit bones and almost the same clearance as the Nago for the perineam whilst in the drops, and it only weighs 132gms !!!!! Quite possibly Saddle Nirvana......

    ROK ON, I had the same reach issues a few months ago, the shorter stem has completely transformed my bike fit, no more neck and shoulder pain since then, and I've even managed to get rid of some spacers of the headset.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Murph100 wrote: »
    I just bought a Selle Italia SLR Carbonio Flow as an alternative to the Nago. Took it out for a 4 hour spin yesterday and its was perfect !! Actually more comfy than the Nago, no extreme pressure on the sit bones and almost the same clearance as the Nago for the perineam whilst in the drops, and it only weighs 132gms !!!!! Quite possibly Saddle Nirvana......

    That Carbonio Flow was on my weight weenie list, but I was looking for a white saddle and I read that white Selle Italias don't wear well, so I popped in to 53 Degrees North in Blanch today and picked up a white Specialized Toupe Ti 143 for €77.

    Only time for a quick spin round the block, but it feels easily the best so far. 160g is good for the money (the Nago PAS Gel was 288g).

    I couldn't bring myself to reattach the saddle bag clip, and the saddle is now sneering at my frame pump and black bar tape.

    I have similar reservations about the Prolog Scratch; I suspect it's only suitable if you ride permanently flat-backed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭Murph100


    Feck !! I got my SLR in white .... only time will tell, but surprisingly comfy for something that resembles a torture device :)

    Yeah I'm the same with the saddle bag, my nice new ControlTech seatpost and SLR just said 'NO WAY', me jersey pockets are now stuffed !

    I'd be interested in seeing how you get on with the Toupe, very good weight for the money.

    I have the Nago PAS ( Non Gel ) in white, best looking saddle ever, weighs 192g, that must be some pretty heavy gel in the gel version, then again mine is a bit hard on the sit bones.

    The Scratch was a dream whilst on the hoods, amazing comfort, especially considering the weight, but once in the drops, the pressure on himself was scary, almost painful, thank feck I got a demo from Dave Kane otherwise I'd have bought it based on all the hype & rave reviews, just goes to show ya.

    Lumen wrote: »
    That Carbonio Flow was on my weight weenie list, but I was looking for a white saddle and I read that white Selle Italias don't wear well, so I popped in to 53 Degrees North in Blanch today and picked up a white Specialized Toupe Ti 143 for €77.

    Only time for a quick spin round the block, but it feels easily the best so far. 160g is good for the money (the Nago PAS Gel was 288g).

    I couldn't bring myself to reattach the saddle bag clip, and the saddle is now sneering at my frame pump and black bar tape.

    I have similar reservations about the Prolog Scratch; I suspect it's only suitable if you ride permanently flat-backed.


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