[AlekSmart]

No mention of the Belgard Road would be complete without seeking a rational explanation of it`s reduction from a Dual Carriageway from the N7,Newlands to a botharìn between the Old Blessington Rd and the N81 itself.

It`s almost as if somebody within SDCC or perhaps the NRA downed a full bottle of Southern Comfort before entering their password into Microsoft Winda`s Road Design wizard.

I can never see a poster for that animated film,The Incredibles,without wondering if it was set in or around the SDCC HQ (County Hall?).

There is little doubt that the current Tallaght (Roads) Strategy is a fiasco which is being overshadowed by the M50 Grand Design.

The Tallaght roads network stands alone as testimony to a complete and total lack of understanding as to how to deal effectively with urban traffic flow management.

Although in mitigation it must be realized that the Burke/Lawlor/Redmond principles were in full flow around the time when the current setup was being built.

Ah well,sure won`t d`oul Metro solve all the traffic problems anyway.....

[seamus]

Originally Posted by murphaph

I'm afraid you don't really understand commuter paterns at all. World experience tells us that widening and building new roads does little or nothing to reduce overall congestion. Ultimately all traffic from the commuter belt is city bound and at some point it will start to move slowly (unless we go back to that diamond, underground motorways to massive underground carparks or other such sci-fi). It just depends where it begins to move slowly.

Absolutely. From my experience of the N81 though, a massive amount of woes (both in terms of traffic and safety) would be solved by providing a better means for overtaking, i.e. a second lane. As you know, all it takes is one gravel truck with a nervous driver behind him and everyone is driving 50km/h from Blessington to Tallaght.

Straightening the bends wouldn't help that much and widening the road wouldn't help. Even a number of overtaking lanes along the route, signposted (e.g. "1km to overtaking lane") would be preferable.

[trellheim]

As someone who travels the route at lot; it does actually move along except in the mornings from embankment->M50 and then really only from embankment->fortunestown.

But we see political promises being abandoned; wasn't fox's daughter promised N81 DC Blessington-Tallaght as part of supporting FF two governments ago ?

Murphaph - people buy houses for their own reason, until your government puts in disincentives to buy in certain areas then what else can you do ?

Alek : No buses go up that bit of the Belgard Road; also it moves fairly quick , it's single carriage to facillitate the zebra crossing from the Abberley court to the Square

it slows down by being blocked from the oncoming traffic on the roundabout from the Square, which it would also be if it was DC

[murphaph]

Originally Posted by trellheim

Murphaph - people buy houses for their own reason, until your government puts in disincentives to buy in certain areas then what else can you do ?

Are you telling me that the government should force you into buying in a particular place? Don't you have free will? People buy in certain areas because they want 'a house that's too big for them with garden they rarely see in daylight' generally. People believe they are buying quality of life in the country or whatever but in reality they are buying into the commuter nightmare and would have better quality of life in a smaller apartment dwelling closer to where they work. If the traffic nightmare I keep hearing about here isn't a disincentive than not much the government could or would do will stop people buying into this 'idyllic dream'.

Btw, I bolded the "your" because although they are the government of my country, I certainly didn't vote for FF.

[AlekSmart]

Quote Trellheim:

" Alek : No buses go up that bit of the Belgard Road; also it moves fairly quick , it's single carriage to facillitate the zebra crossing from the Abberley court to the Square

it slows down by being blocked from the oncoming traffic on the roundabout from the Square, which it would also be if it was DC"

Yes indeed Trellheim it IS a single carriageway,but not as we know it

The Zebra Crossing from the Abberley to Mc Donalds has to be one of the most dangerous of it`s type,if only for the ambiguity with which it operates.

Road surface colouring,Belisha Beacons (!!) and the presence of upright railway sleepers behind which many pedestrians are concealed all serve to make it a textbook case in Tomfoolery.
The issue of Buses using the road is of no relevance,except perhaps to underline some possibly good reasons why they SHOULD be using it.

I remain bamboozled at why a Local Authority would REDUCE the original lane setup at this location to one which is of appreciably higher risk.

There are some other more acceptable means of "facilitating" a pedestrian crossing on a Dual Carriagewaywhich might be of greater benefit here.

The present setup smacks of somebody realizing that a pedestrian crossing here was a non-runner but being in thrall to a motley crue of various "developers" as to facilitating pedestrian access.

I have always considered this particular location as being ideal for a raised pedestrian walkway beginning much further back towards the old Tallaght village and ramping gently upward to bring the walker down to ground MUCH nearer to the Square itself,possibly even directly into the centre via an atrium or somesuch...however this would effectively short circuit The Retail Centre and Mc D`s which may explain tthe reasoning behind the current bit of an oul crossing...

The entire issue does underline our National reluctance to effectively plan ANYTHING as the manner in which the Tallaght Square Area has "developed" cannot be said to display much committment to any notion of Urban "Planning" as opposed to facilitating developers and speculators.

[trellheim]

Alec : yes it seems strange to me why they did it that way; as with so much else, they seem to have budget to do something, then forget all about it once it's done.


Murphaph : never said you did vote for FF . doesn't stop them being your government though.

and I did say people buy for their own reasons. If they want to buy on the N81 and drive the N81 to Tallaght and beyond - that's their choice

[ Note I don't live anywhere near the N81 but have driven it more times than I care to remember over the last 25 years ]

[murphaph]

Originally Posted by trellheim

Murphaph : never said you did vote for FF . doesn't stop them being your government though.

I prefer the term "the government"

Originally Posted by trellheim

and I did say people buy for their own reasons. If they want to buy on the N81 and drive the N81 to Tallaght and beyond - that's their choice

As it is their choice to sit in traffic when there are apartments available for sale at similar cost in Dublin proper.

[tom1ie]

Murphaph you are obviously against the upgrading of the n81. What would your soloution to the traffic problem caused by the lack of capacity on the n81 be exactly? Without banning cars from tallaght of course

[tom1ie]

Also more info i forgot to post yesterday, but it looks like kildare county council have got the task of upgrading the n81. Thats confirmed from an e mail from a councillor. Apparently sdcc dont have adequate resources to deal with it while the m50 upgrde is going on! oh oh

[murphaph]

Originally Posted by tom1ie

Murphaph you are obviously against the upgrading of the n81. What would your soloution to the traffic problem caused by the lack of capacity on the n81 be exactly? Without banning cars from tallaght of course

Read my posts properly tom1ie. I said I was all in favour of eliminating bad bends through minor realignments and so on. Even climber lanes/2+1 if they can fit them in the existing corridor but I would be totally against a large scale project such as dualling the N81 from Tallaght to Blessigton.

My (and any mature country's) solution to the lack of capacity on all our roads is to improve public transport and discourage sprawl through the provision of such public transport in a core city area. You seem to believe that you can roadbuild your way out of congestion when experience the world over (including our own) tells you this is generally not the case.

[tom1ie]

I totally agree that intergrated public transport is the soloution. Not crazy ass road building-Like ive alredy said when i mentioned the p+r idea at citywest (possibly in a different thread apologies if so). However where a large road building scheme is warrented- and i belive that in this case it is, then it should be built. Why should people in tallaght and beyond be forced to endure constant gridlock because their main road is an n with two digits instead of one.

[JupiterKid]

I have mixed views on this - the N81 Tallaght Bypass should have been extended westwards to the Embankment years ago - in fact, there were plans do do this as far back as 1989 but nothing in the intervening 20 years has since been done and the road is now an absolute shambles.

I think that the N81 should be dualled as far as the Embankment and then 2+1 or Rooskey bypass style 2+2 in places to Blessington, but a complete dualling to Blessington would just encourage the town, already considerably expanded, to mushroom out of all proportion.

After Blessington, the N81 is fairly quiet although its alignment and width are poor. These sections should be gradually improved with wide and straight S2.

[Alun]

Originally Posted by JupiterKid

After Blessington, the N81 is fairly quiet although its alignment and width are poor. These sections should be gradually improved with wide and straight S2.

They are doing some work on the section between Hollywood and the turn off for Donard. It's not clear what exactly, just a bit of resurfacing and tidying up.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by Alun

They are doing some work on the section between Hollywood and the turn off for Donard. It's not clear what exactly, just a bit of resurfacing and tidying up.

Resurfacing and widening really. There was tonnes of overgrown hedging and the edge of the road was very poor. There's a bridge just before the pub that I think they're reinforcing.