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Question on driving in an emergency

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭james116


    Paulzx wrote: »
    This has nothing got to do with taximen suddenly developing a worry for fatigue levels of postmen and you know that well:rolleyes:

    It has everything to do with taximen and competition within the industry. You have valid concerns on this subject but don't try and mask it with supposed concerns about tired postmen.

    Anyway, this has nothing got to do with the original thread topic
    2 weeks ago i was behide a car on leeson st bridge and he did not move after the lights had changed 3 times so i went up to him and he was fast asleep with 2 americans in the car so yes i do worry about drivers going around with fatigue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,752 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    wreckless wrote: »
    cheers Flazio, thats a great video alright.
    You're welcome but I must raise a question from that video. It says that in single white line roads emergency vehicles will silence their siren and will not pass you unless you are fully stopped. Is this true of Irish emergency services?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,261 ✭✭✭source


    flazio wrote: »
    You're welcome but I must raise a question from that video. It says that in single white line roads emergency vehicles will silence their siren and will not pass you unless you are fully stopped. Is this true of Irish emergency services?

    It depends on the emergency situation, and the road, and the road conditions, Say a clear, dry, sunny day, about 100-200m visibility and a life was at risk then the emergency vehicle will be out over that line so fast you won't know what hit you. Change that to a burglary in an empty house on a wet night with maybe 20-50m visibility then the driver won't risk it.

    I don't think I've ever witnessed a driver silencing the siren in that situation though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭irishrgr


    I've seen the gamut of it all....dopes on mobiles, iPods, simply not paying attention. Granted cars are well insulated these days, in my 2010 Honda Civic I barely hear the services approaching and I'm sensitive to what to do.

    In Texas, all emergency vehicles can "prudently disregard" all traffic laws when responding to an emergency although we are not protected from civil liability. By law, all drivers must yield right of way, pull over, and slow down to 15 MPH or move one lane over when passing a stopped emergency vehicle displaying it's emergency lights. (BTW, the Traffic Code also defines what an emergency vehicle is).

    Some agencies have more specific policies on use of lights, but generally if the lights are on, the siren is on as well. Granted there is a common sense application, 1800 in downtown, siren on. 0200 residential street, siren off.

    However, despite all the legal stuff, most peoples heads are so far up their arses, it's same thing every day.....emergency driving is the most dangerous thing we do on a daily basis.

    A


  • Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭savagecabbages


    I'm not ES, so this is from an outsiders perspective.

    Funny that source mentioned Limerick as being particularly troublesome for pedestrians. A few weeks ago I was walking down a one way street and one of the HSE rapid response Mondeos came flying up the street all lights + sirens blazing. Two young fellas -walking towards the oncoming car- decided to cross the street literally seconds before the car arrived. Car had to jam on its brakes and skid to a stop. Driver gave them about 5 seconds of the extra loud horns when he eventually stopped but they continued to walk deliberately slowly and stare at him. Once the car eventually got passed one shouts at the back of the car "f**k off pigs". Wasn't even a garda car...

    What I'm getting at here is an aspect that many people may not even be aware of- that some sections of society have absolutely no regard for those working in the ES. They hate them and want to obstruct them no matter what they may be responding to. The same people who throw rocks at the fire services at night, the same people who play chicken with garda cars etc...

    Out of curiosity, do many people get charged with intentionally blocking ES vehicles? An what is the charge, if there even is one? I'm guessing that ANPR equipped garda cars could easily charge people from the video evidence gained during an encounter.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭yourpics


    Why do ambulances drive with blue lights and no siren, get up behind a vehicle and suddenly put on the siren if the driver doesn't see the blue lights?
    Seems silly, why don't they keep the siren on fulltime??


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Tango Alpha 51


    Why do you think they need to have the siren on the whole time. If they can't see a 5t yellow thing with loads of flashing lights coming towards them or driving up behind them, what makes you think they'll hear a siren. Equally do you think it's ok to have a siren going non stop at 3 or 4 in the morning??.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭misterdarkness


    any other garda or ambulance driver will agree with me on this.

    The main thing that bugs the crap out of me is the woman driver (no offence can often me men but more often then not its a girl) who is in fast lane music on never checks mirrors and does not notice the screaming siren or the pulsing lights and then when they do notice what do you think happens?? gracefully moves out of the way to allow you to get to your call ??

    Not a chance its either a massive swerve left that almost cleans the car beside her out of it or my personal fave in absolute panic slams on the breaks. Yes i have had this happen.

    another most memorable moment while in garda jeep getting stranded drivers off a hill in snow i saw a lady at top of hill attempt to drive down not seeing road below was blocked and in coming down not only was she not going anywhere but she would block us all in. so i wave frantically for her to pull over quickly before she made it worse and think she did? of course not just kept coming and coming till she was right up on top of me and rolls down the window. My words to her were polite but accurate "now we are all stuck here". What happened next? she burst out crying. Ahhh god the old saying is true. Common scene is not that common.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭misterdarkness


    buzzman wrote: »
    Why do you think they need to have the siren on the whole time. If they can't see a 5t yellow thing with loads of flashing lights coming towards them or driving up behind them, what makes you think they'll hear a siren. Equally do you think it's ok to have a siren going non stop at 3 or 4 in the morning??.

    very true siren is to alert others your there. don't need to alert the joe bloggs family and their sleeping kids.

    I drive only with blues on clear open road and sirens when at junctions or in traffic or on winding country road where i don't have view of whats around the bend


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭yourpics


    buzzman wrote: »
    Why do you think they need to have the siren on the whole time. If they can't see a 5t yellow thing with loads of flashing lights coming towards them or driving up behind them, what makes you think they'll hear a siren. Equally do you think it's ok to have a siren going non stop at 3 or 4 in the morning??.

    I am not referring to 3am or 4am.
    I am talking about driving in the daytime in daylight.
    If they had the siren on, people would be aware of the emergency vehicle sooner and it would give them ample time to get out of the way.
    I know plenty of people who the lights only and sudden siren approach frightens and causes them to panic.

    The nature of your reply suggests to me that you think I am being smart posting this, but in fact I honestly want to know is this a policy of the emrgency services? The vast majority of ambulances seem to do this.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭McWotever


    MIRRORS! Not there just look pretty. Drivers are retards, fact.

    If ten cars can see a silent ES vehicle approaching from behind and one person doesn't, who's driving without due care and attention? The nine drivers who pull over?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    yourpics wrote: »
    I am not referring to 3am or 4am.
    I am talking about driving in the daytime in daylight.
    If they had the siren on, people would be aware of the emergency vehicle sooner and it would give them ample time to get out of the way.
    I know plenty of people who the lights only and sudden siren approach frightens and causes them to panic.

    The nature of your reply suggests to me that you think I am being smart posting this, but in fact I honestly want to know is this a policy of the emrgency services? The vast majority of ambulances seem to do this.

    Those people you know should not really be driving. If a siren makes them panic and they have no awareness on the road then they are dangerous drivers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Tango Alpha 51


    Yourpics, wasn't thinking for a minute that you were being smart but believe me whethere you have the siren on or not doesn't really matter of the person is not paying attention. In answer to your question, officially to gain the exemptions we have from the various rta's we are supposed to have all audio & visual warning aids in use .


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Com1186


    In the current climate it doesnt matter, if we crash on the way or cause a crash, or have the blues & two's on anywhere near an accident occurred , the driver will be in the wrong regardless. i was like all the other eager police men that couldnt drive faster or get to an incident quicker... but now it aint worth it . driving courses never use the term emergency driving, they use the term progressive, in a safe manner!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭yourpics


    Thanks for the many responses.

    I simply think that during daytime hours lights and sirens should both be used.

    I also think that part-time firemen should have sirens aswell as the blue light on the windscreen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Part time firemen? As in like on their personnel cars? That is just stupid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Com1186


    not going to happen... if it does then that part time fireman will have to have proper driver training and his car insurance will shoot up.

    then why should nt off-duty gardai have lights and sirens in the car if they have to get to an emergency?

    or coast and cliff , mountain rescue and search members?

    ambulance drivers , nurses and doctors

    civil defence

    your going down a slippery slope my eager friend!

    i think if you want to drive a vehicle with lights and sirens
    become an ambulance driver , fireman or garda
    take it from me... the buzz of lights and sirens quickly wears off!:)

    (I also think that part-time firemen should have sirens aswell as the blue light on the windscreen.)
    If i met a part-time fireman with blues on and driving anyway excessive the would be prosecuted..... blues are for offical vehicles and they dont give you power to drive fast or bully people off the road!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭yourpics


    Com1186 wrote: »
    not going to happen... if it does then that part time fireman will have to have proper driver training and his car insurance will shoot up.

    then why should nt off-duty gardai have lights and sirens in the car if they have to get to an emergency?

    or coast and cliff , mountain rescue and search members?

    ambulance drivers , nurses and doctors

    civil defence

    your going down a slippery slope my eager friend!

    i think if you want to drive a vehicle with lights and sirens
    become an ambulance driver , fireman or garda
    take it from me... the buzz of lights and sirens quickly wears off!:)

    (I also think that part-time firemen should have sirens aswell as the blue light on the windscreen.)
    If i met a part-time fireman with blues on and driving anyway excessive the would be prosecuted..... blues are for offical vehicles and they dont give you power to drive fast or bully people off the road!

    I was driving in a 50 kph zone one day when a part time fireman was on his way to the fire station responding to an emergency call out. He drove up behind me with the blue flasher on, I assumed he was an unmarked garda car and pulled over, thinking he wished to speak with me. This lead to the fireman being delayed behind me for a few seconds, he pulled out around me erratically and proceeded at a speed well in excess of 50 kph.

    It was a shocking display of driving and showed little concern to other road users.
    In this instance, the use of a siren would have cleared all traffic out of his way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭are you serious


    yourpics wrote: »
    I was driving in a 50 kph zone one day when a part time fireman was on his way to the fire station responding to an emergency call out. He drove up behind me with the blue flasher on, I assumed he was an unmarked garda car and pulled over, thinking he wished to speak with me. This lead to the fireman being delayed behind me for a few seconds, he pulled out around me erratically and proceeded at a speed well in excess of 50 kph.

    It was a shocking display of driving and showed little concern to other road users.
    In this instance, the use of a siren would have cleared all traffic out of his way.

    Just curious, how could you tell all of that ^^ in the few moments it took from him coming up behind you to him passing you and driving off?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭yourpics


    garkane wrote: »
    Just curious, how could you tell all of that ^^ in the few moments it took from him coming up behind you to him passing you and driving off?

    I looked in the mirror, saw the blue flasher on a car that was right on my bumper. I stopped assuming it was AGS. The car spun off and drove past me, revving very highly. I knew to look at the car that it was well in excess of 50 KPH. I continued to drive at 50 KPH and the car was fast disappearing.
    The fire station was half a mile away, as I passed it I saw the same car parked there and the fire brigade loading up.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭yourpics


    Zambia wrote: »
    Part time firemen? As in like on their personnel cars? That is just stupid.

    Please refrain from stating that my comment is stupid without any explanation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    yourpics wrote: »
    I also think that part-time firemen should have sirens aswell as the blue light on the windscreen.

    No as these are reserved for official emergency vehicle.

    Not all emergency workers - full or part time - are appliance drivers. You are asking to drive their own cars as emergency vehicles without qualification or training. Hardly and social domestic use as per insurance.

    Part time or volunteer emergency workers are to be praised but there's no point in putting their lives at risk to and from the fire station.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭yourpics


    BrianD wrote: »
    No as these are reserved for official emergency vehicle.

    Not all emergency workers - full or part time - are appliance drivers. You are asking to drive their own cars as emergency vehicles without qualification or training. Hardly and social domestic use as per insurance.

    Part time or volunteer emergency workers are to be praised but there's no point in putting their lives at risk to and from the fire station.

    Just a suggestion, if anything I thought the presence of a siren would aid them getting to the fire station safely, I wasn't impling that they drive any faster etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 emzyo1990


    Com1186 wrote: »
    not going to happen... if it does then that part time fireman will have to have proper driver training and his car insurance will shoot up.

    then why should nt off-duty gardai have lights and sirens in the car if they have to get to an emergency?

    or coast and cliff , mountain rescue and search members?

    ambulance drivers , nurses and doctors

    civil defence

    your going down a slippery slope my eager friend!

    i think if you want to drive a vehicle with lights and sirens
    become an ambulance driver , fireman or garda
    take it from me... the buzz of lights and sirens quickly wears off!:)

    (I also think that part-time firemen should have sirens aswell as the blue light on the windscreen.)
    If i met a part-time fireman with blues on and driving anyway excessive the would be prosecuted..... blues are for offical vehicles and they dont give you power to drive fast or bully people off the road!

    I agree with not giving off duty personnel lights and sirens for personal vehicles this would cause absolute chaos in towns. Also can I just say 'ambulance drivers' are from 50 years ago, If you call any EMT/Paramedic today an 'ambulance driver' they will not be best pleased please give us the respect we deserve as medical professionls.


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Com1186


    apologies.... didnt mean to offend.


  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭wreckless


    part-time fire-firefighter???:mad: :confused:

    the correct term your looking for is "Retained" fire-fighter. We are on call 24/7/365.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭yourpics


    wreckless wrote: »
    part-time fire-firefighter???:mad: :confused:

    the correct term your looking for is "Retained" fire-fighter. We are on call 24/7/365.

    No offence was intended by the use of the term "part-time".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    yourpics wrote: »
    Please refrain from stating that my comment is stupid without any explanation.
    Sorry about that, the reasons why have been raised since.


  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭Topper7


    You couldnt give every tom, dick & harry a light & siren for their personal use. Not only would we never get any sleep, but the public may become used to them and not give them much attention.

    To answer the question of why use lights & not sirens, it is often not entirely necessary to use sirens especially in resenditial areas at night time (imagine if you lived beside a hospital or ambulance/fire station!). Also from my expierence in vol ambos, the driver will often turn off the siren when not needed so that s/he can communicate more easily with the person treating in the back or hear the radio better. Not sure if this is the case in HSE ambos though.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    flazio wrote: »
    You're welcome but I must raise a question from that video. It says that in single white line roads emergency vehicles will silence their siren and will not pass you unless you are fully stopped. Is this true of Irish emergency services?

    The UK don't have an exemption for crossing single white lines, it's allowed in Ireland but, there is still no exemption from dangerous driving. If an urgent response is necessary, and the driver deems it safe and appropriate to do so, then here they are allowed to cross the single white line. In the UK if they do so they are breaking the law, simple as.

    One reason that audio warning aren't used all they time is the added urgency will sometime panic other drivers, inducing them into doing something dangerous. For example, if you were on a narrow twisty road with horns blaring and come up behind a car, they might end up pulling in on a blind corner, forcing you to overtake dangerously. The prudent thing to do there is to hang back, horns off, and wait for a safe section of road.

    Generally the sirens are to be turned on in advance of having to do something outside the normal rules of the road, in order to help manage to the traffic. If the emergency driver waits until he is on your tailgate before activating horns then something has gone wrong; they didn't follow their training, you failed to react, or you reacted to their presence in an unhelpful manner.


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