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wiping old hard drives

  • 17-01-2012 7:19pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,082 ✭✭✭✭Random


    what programs are you guys using to wipe hard drives these days? they are both ide and sata drives and i would be doing it via usb connection on xp. i want to securely erase the data so that it cannot be recovered.

    i see that the likes of ccleaner has this built in. has anyone had experience with it or would you suggest alternatives?

    thanks


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Sledge hammer and concrete block?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,082 ✭✭✭✭Random


    i should add that i would like to sell them on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    DBAN?

    You could also use TrueCrypt in secure mode to encrypt the entire drive (overwriting anything that may have been retrievable in unencrypted form in the process) and then format. Any data that would be magnetically readable would be in encrypted form.


  • Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭Screaming Monkey


    if you not going to destroy them then http://www.dban.org/ although you have to boot into it.

    SM


  • Registered Users Posts: 579 ✭✭✭edmund_f


    Industrial shredder is the only totally secure way I know of, after that personally think it is a trade off between how long you want to spend wiping them to how determined someone is to recover information from the wiped disk. To answer your question, Ubuntu live CD- shred.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭schrodinger


    Try the manufacturer ATA secure erase, this will use the manufacturers wipe facility which as I understand it has a better chance of wiping the full width of the tracks.

    http://tinyapps.org/docs/wipe_drives_hdparm.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭brendanL


    I second DBAN.. really handy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭PeterHughes


    I second the physical approach, I normally use a black and decker drill and 4 or 5 holes, it generally shatters all the internal disks in the drive, no chance of recovery.

    Software wise there is a utility called Data Shredder that I use from Hiren's Boot CD that works very well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    If drilling one, remember to wear goggles! They can cause shards if metal to fly!

    Hitting it with a sledge hammer so as to break it into bits will render it utterly unusable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭infodox


    Install a new OS, Truecrypt the whole thing, DBAN, repeat.

    Do it 4 or 5 times so that there is *nothing* but junk left behind.

    This erases most anything

    For permenant disposal:

    Either that or a hammer, a bucket of drain opener (lye/sodium hydroxide) and a few days time. The Al platters will be royally f*cked up by the Lye, then dispose of down the drain sieving/straining out larger particulates for burial.

    Or just hit it a few times, get drunk and ditch it in the bin at a nightclub...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Once you damage the disk platters or even the read/write heads the drive is utterly useless. Unless you've something so confidential on there that the CIA and MI6 are after you, there's absolutely no hope of it ever being recovered.

    You'd actually need a forensic lab and a hell of a lot of time, technology and dedication to extract data from a physically broken hard drive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭ Kathleen Quiet Marine


    I think a full format is sufficient.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    I think a full format is sufficient.

    Not really and it would not be advisable if you are selling a computer on to someone else or having it recycled, especially if it contains anything like medical or financial records.

    Any PC / Mac being sold on should really have the drive properly erased. If it's being disposed of, remove the drive and damage it beyond use.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭ Kathleen Quiet Marine


    Solair wrote: »
    Not really and it would not be advisable if you are selling a computer on to someone else or having it recycled, especially if it contains anything like medical or financial records.

    Any PC / Mac being sold on should really have the drive properly erased. If it's being disposed of, remove the drive and damage it beyond use.

    If its Windows Vista/ 7, full format most likely will do.

    I think though the average user will not be recovering data though, and if you suspected someone was going to do that, you wouldn't be giving the drive to them in the first place. But I agree with you, its good practice to properly erase data safely.

    Some guy here has trouble recovering data after a full format with Windows 7:
    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/w7itprosecurity/thread/16be9a01-5445-4de4-9f8a-178a3e5f7730
    Hello Sharma,

    This is T.Ravikiran. I am also having the same problem.. if you find the solution... please send the to me. We are in desperate need of solution.

    We have tried the more than 10 recovery software, but could'nt recover the data.

    Kindly reply ASAP.

    Regards,

    T.Ravikiran

    http://www.hdd-tool.com/hdd-repair/difference-between-full-format-and-quick-format.htm
    4. The default format option in Windows XP and Windows 7 is different. That is Windows XP – Full format, Windows 7 – Quick format. Full format in Windows 7 will erase data completely and no data recovery software could recover files again.

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/941961/en-us
    The format command behavior has changed in Windows Vista. By default in Windows Vista, the format command writes zeros to the whole disk when a full format is performed. In Windows XP and in earlier versions of the Windows operating system, the format command does not write zeros to the whole disk when a full format is performed.

    I think this would hamper most of the recovery softwares available to the average user.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭Wicklowrider


    Its a long time since I was involved in this level of support so please bear that in mind before flaming :)

    Does this not still work?

    http://www.computerhope.com/rdebug.htm#4


    It was simple and free! Reduced any hdd to a physical piece of machinery and the computer couldn't see it until it was newly partitioned and formated


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭LoLth


    one pass is enough with modern hard drives.

    http://www.anti-forensics.com/disk-wiping-one-pass-is-enough

    so yes, a full format (not quick!) should do the trick.

    alternatively, get an old PC, connect all the drives to it internally (take out the cd drive to connect up another, use an ide/sata to usb bridge to connect another etc. copy DBAN to a bootable USB (set up manually or maybe unetbootin has a dban option), boot from DBAN and nuke em all! single pass (non-military) wipe should do it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    1 pass with DBAN is enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭infodox


    As an aside, good luck wiping USB keys. A person I know fairly well tells me that he had USB keys that had been wiped, formatted, and erased so much that they would no longer mount reliably, dating back as far as 2007 or so. Old, well abused and carefully erased devices. Yet one forensics officer with a copy of Encase was able to pull all kinds of **** from the drive, dating as far back as 2008 or so. This was recently as well.

    I never feel one wipe is enough, having seen what Encase and a competent forensics person can do. Physical destruction of the drive to NOTHING is the only really secure way to erase data.

    I do wonder though, if a person with a habit of using second hand hard drives had their drives seized, how are they meant to prove in court what data is theirs and what is the previous owners? One never knows what the previous owner had on their drives... And a 120gb drive with about 40gb of bad sectors from the previous owner gives one pause to think "what the hell were they doing to that machine?!"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Someone who says "wiped, formatted, and erased" doesn't know what they are doing. It was never wiped if they got something off it.

    http://www.anti-forensics.com/disk-wiping-one-pass-is-enough-part-2-this-time-with-screenshots

    http://www.anti-forensics.com/disk-wiping-one-pass-is-enough


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    If its Windows Vista/ 7, full format most likely will do.
    I've done a full format, reinstalled Windows ono it, and then found out that I need to get a file from the old OS. With tools on the market, I was able to get teh document back.

    I second DBAN.
    Random wrote: »
    what programs are you guys using to wipe hard drives these days?
    what did you use the HDD for? Business or personal? Who are you selling the HDD to (friends, family, who)?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    the_syco wrote: »
    I've done a full format, reinstalled Windows ono it, and then found out that I need to get a file from the old OS. With tools on the market, I was able to get teh document back.

    I second DBAN....


    This might explain why...
    Contrary to popular belief, doing a full format with Windows 7 only over-writes the old disk format configuration data (the MBR) with the new and checks for sector errors, then marks the remaining space to be over-written as needed, it does not over-write (remove) any other data at all, it's all still there including code from previous Operating Systems and all of the old personal data.

    http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/172617-secure-erase-wipe-definition-methods.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 tommy.obr


    Pop them in the microwave, about two minutes on full heat should do the job. The microwave might'nt be in great shape after it though..:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Yes metal in a microwave not so clever.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭ Kathleen Quiet Marine


    BostonB wrote: »

    The windows support page might be incorrect so, as it says it writes 0's to entire drive:
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/941961/en-us


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭LoLth


    isnt the "quick format" an overwrite of the MBR and set overwrite flag on the contents of any existing MFT while a "full format" is a proper wipe of every sector which is why it takes so much longer?

    For raid arrays, a full initialisation is a full write of zeroes.

    for USB keys, there was a whitepaper released on SSD and Flash storage, I think the result was up to 85% of data was recoverable even after a "secure" wipe that would have destroyed all data on a standard HDD.

    link to tomshardware article:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/solid-state-flash-translation-layer-NAND-FAST-11-Sanitization,12252.html

    link to the whitepaper:
    http://www.usenix.org/events/fast11/tech/full_papers/Wei.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    The devil is in the details. Assume nothing.

    Just do a single wipe. Then you're not left wondering.

    Microsoft, it depends which kind of format you do. For the love of mike...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Well this is one way of ensuring absolutely no risk of data theft!



  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭infodox


    LoLth is correct - with USB keys and flash storage, the way their filesystem and memory actually functions means that standard wiping tricks fail miserably. They are designed to stop you from damaging the drive by read/write to fast, so they simply seem to "contain" your wiping in some way. I do not fully understand the theory behind it all, but in practice I know that EnCase + competent forensics guy does a bloody amazing job of file recovery!

    I am sure some of the forensics guys at WIT can concur? A friend suggests the best way to wipe a USB drive is to fill it COMPLETELY with junk data, format, repeat. Or just take a lumphammer or blowtorch to it...

    For securing from civilians/average people DBAN is fine. But if one REALLY has something to hide, PHYSICAL OBLITERATION of the drive is needed. Smashing, blowtorching and dissolving followed by filtration (remove any frags left intact) and burial / dumping over a large landmass.

    Depends on your paranoia levels!

    (of course, we all wish we had an epic hard drive shredding machine, don't we?)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    infodox wrote: »
    ...they simply seem to "contain" your wiping in some way. I do not fully understand the theory behind it all,

    ...A friend suggests the best way to wipe a USB drive is to fill it COMPLETELY with junk data, format, repeat....

    For securing from civilians/average people DBAN is fine....

    Do you realise that's all one and the same thing. Overwriting all the disc. EnCase can't recover what isn't there.

    Some one advocating formating is not credible IMO. Unless they are specific about what the formatting is doing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭Weylin


    i was told that if you can get yourself a large magnet (old car speaker etc) and use it on the drive that it will wipe it :D. not sure if you can use drive again.:confused:


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