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How many teachers are unemployed??

  • 17-10-2010 10:28pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 24


    Just wondring if there is any definite figures for the amount of unemployed teachers out there?

    Or better yet the number of unemployed NQTs? I'm just feeling so down that I've worked so hard last year in the P.G.D.E course and I haven't even gotten an interview....boourns!


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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭dambarude


    800 at primary level according to Sheila Nunan on the News at One.

    It's unbelievable that she's defending retired teachers taking up subbing positions. Almost 10% of all subs in primary schools (302 people) are retired teachers apparently.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30 Rapunzels


    7 years teaching and this year I have 13 hours 20 mins..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 starre


    6 years teaching and have worked two weeks total in the last 17 months. 0 days in the last 11. No interview since summer 2009.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭gaeilgegrinds1


    We had two part-time positions this year, since those have been filled we have received over 600 CVs in to the office. I asked the secretary today. She also said she's been told to shred them all as we have more than enough part-time teachers and ex-Dips. She does tell them that though so they can take them home. It's so sad as I'd say it's impossible to break into these days.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭dambarude


    Any chance this thread could be locked?! It's very depressing:(.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,283 ✭✭✭Quandary


    Just out of interest, would the people posting here mind indicating whether they're primary or secondary teachers and also how far they are prepared to travel for subbing work?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭dambarude


    Quandary wrote: »
    Just out of interest, would the people posting here mind indicating whether they're primary or secondary teachers and also how far they are prepared to travel for subbing work?

    I'm no good to you, I'm a primary teacher in training. Ask me again in two years time when I'm sure it'll be even worse... Judging by the budget announcements at any rate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,283 ✭✭✭Quandary


    dambarude wrote: »
    I'm no good to you, I'm a primary teacher in training. Ask me again in two years time when I'm sure it'll be even worse... Judging by the budget announcements at any rate.

    Im a primary teacher in training too :pac:

    I was thinking that when im qualified ill give myself a driving radius of 1.5 hours to do subbing or if very lucky get a place for my dip yr. Im based in Dublin but I do have the option of moving home to Kerry if prospects are better down there...


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭dambarude


    There's definitely an advantage to being foot loose and fancy free in this environment. I'd be willing to work in any county really, but I won't get too ahead of myself.

    The one consolation for primary teachers is the huge numbers of babies being born the last few years- they have to be taught by somebody. An increase to the PTR in the budget would have disastrous consequences in terms of standards in the clasroom and employment levels though. And unfortunately that's quite like something that would happen when the Greens leave government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    dambarude wrote: »
    800 at primary level according to Sheila Nunan on the News at One.

    It's unbelievable that she's defending retired teachers taking up subbing positions. Almost 10% of all subs in primary schools (302 people) are retired teachers apparently.

    This is a pet hate of mine. Retired teachers on pensions coming back to do subbing is nothing short of scandalous. It shouldnt be tolerated and I really wish the unions would attempt to do something about it.

    BTW, im an unemployed teacher by the way. 4 years experience and still cant get a jiffy


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24 chunli_boom


    Im a secondary teacher with History and C.S.P.E. I might as well just have History I guess! I'm willing to work in Dublin. Partner needs to stay in Dublin. I'm down with certain schools as a sub but have heard nothing since September. I'v handed out so many CVs to so many schools but I'm barely even getting any replies.
    God if teachers with so much experience can't even get anything I don't know how NQTs have a chance. I'm just so worried that without some real classroom experience this year that I'm going to lose everything I'v learnt and my confidence with students. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    All i can say about retired people subbing is that if you are in a poor location and have literally one or two days short notice, retired people are very reliable whereas younger teachers, you need to usually ring a good few and be told about they have ajob, hours elsewhere etc. I agree retired people shouldn't be used for longer term stuff but sometimes theres a lot more to the story than mere stats


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    TheDriver wrote: »
    All i can say about retired people subbing is that if you are in a poor location and have literally one or two days short notice, retired people are very reliable whereas younger teachers, you need to usually ring a good few and be told about they have ajob, hours elsewhere etc. I agree retired people shouldn't be used for longer term stuff but sometimes theres a lot more to the story than mere stats

    You are trying to justify the completely and utterly unjustifiable. Retired teachers on pensions should never be let near a classroom. If they go back, they don't deserve their pension.
    It is not hard for the Teaching Council to set up a registrar of qualified unemployed teachers. Any principal that needs a teacher in short notice looks up this registrar and contacts unemployed teachers from that area. Simples.
    Retired teachers are called back because of cushy relationships with principals. It is typical Ireland. It should not be tolerated, it is very easy to be stopped, and it would not be accepted anywhere else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭Rosita



    You are trying to justify the completely and utterly unjustifiable. Retired teachers on pensions should never be let near a classroom. If they go back, they don't deserve their pension.


    In fairness to The Driver I think it more a matter of explaining why schools do it (what motivates a Vice-Principal at 8.25am when a sub is needed at 9am) rather than justifying it (saying it is right and ideal).

    And like many other things we believe are unique to Ireland, I'd be surprised if something as explainable in practical terms as this is not happening anywhere else other than Ireland.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,348 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    The thing is, the way TheDriver paints it, it looks like a short term, once off thing, or something that's rare. I know in my ex-school, there are two teachers who "retired" but are still in the school every day, with a small handful of classes on a fulltime basis. :/


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Thanks Rosita, I am not justifying it but rather explaining that when a teacher rings in sick at 8:50 (which does happen), last thing I want is to be ringing a register where half don't want to come to you because its not enough work or they won't make it out on time, we are not in a city so we don't have loads of people waiting around. Also remember most people would be 30 mins at least away not to mention getting ready for us.
    Hence why the easier option will be contacted!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    Im surprised if some teachers turn you down Driver because of its not enough work. Id bite someones hand off for just a day teaching now. I wasn't having a go in my reply to you on the last page though, but having retired teachers who are already getting a tidy sum a week getting subbing hours while there are 100s of NQTs crying out for work is very very disheartening and I really think it is an issue that unions should be pushing hard to have stopped.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    thing is we would never have a days work because there are part time teachers who will cover some of the hours but naturally there are gaps in the day. even full hours some days is only 5 classes and Teachers might take an hour to get to you, they have no idea of the school and you spend more time showing them around etc. Hence why its much much easier getting the local retired person. I know its not all that fair and many other factors but we don't have all day to be getting new subs in and showing them around etc.
    P.S. You would be shocked at being turned out, it happens alright unfortunately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    Well id actually drive up to an hour to get subbing of an hour or more. It shocks me to hear people turn it down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,371 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    I'd agree with TheDriver on the short notice thing. Two years ago our physics/honours maths teacher went on maternity leave. Her job was advertised twice and the school couldn't get a single suitable applicant for her job. They ended up taking on a guy straight out of college with a physics degree with no teaching experience whatsoever. And that was for a 6 month contract.

    So imagine what it is like when there's only 10 minutes to spare in the morning and 5B will be swinging from the rafters if there isn't someone there to teach them or supervise them at 9am.

    One of the teachers I work with started out subbing with us, she dropped in her CV, lived locally and told the principal she would be available within 10 minutes of getting a phonecall regardless of what hours were available or what time of the morning it was. They were delighted to have someone they could ring at 8.45 who could be there for 9 if necessary. She subbed the last two months of the school year about 5 years ago, a job came up the following year and she got it.

    Having said all that, we have had a lot of subs in since the start of September and almost every one of them have been NQTs. Most live within 30 minutes of the school and are willing to work any hours at the drop of a hat. That's what's getting them the work in my school.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭dambarude


    During the week there was much talk of the thousands being spent by the government training nurses, when there are no jobs for them.

    Why is the same not being said about teachers? I realise that a lot of the teaching programmes are funded at least in part by those taking them (the PGDE for instance), but there are hundreds graduating from B.Ed programmes every year which are funded entirely by the government. The DES controls the numbers entering these programmes so I can't see why the numbers aren't being cut. 400+ primary teachers graduated from the B.Ed programme in Mary I just today and yesterday, and that's not including those who did the grad dip in teaching in the college.

    Between the B.Ed and Grad Dip in established colleges, and the Grad Dip in Hibernia it seems there are 1500+ being trained in primary teaching every year. Hibernia College will take in as many as it pleases as long as it's making a profit, but the numbers in other colleges seems ridiculous to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 anneh2010


    I am desperate for work, have interviewed in Cavan, Dublin, Meath, Westmeath I really am willing to go where the work is. I cant afford to set up in England and have some experience.

    Work seems to go by who you know not what you know.... I know of 2 jobs that went to a principals daughter and she has a permanent job now. I am desperate. I do not know what else I can do.

    Its so bad out there and i think people in authority do not realise how bad it is.

    I feel like a failure


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    anneh2010 wrote: »
    I am desperate for work, have interviewed in Cavan, Dublin, Meath, Westmeath I really am willing to go where the work is. I cant afford to set up in England and have some experience.

    Work seems to go by who you know not what you know.... I know of 2 jobs that went to a principals daughter and she has a permanent job now. I am desperate. I do not know what else I can do.

    Its so bad out there and i think people in authority do not realise how bad it is.

    I feel like a failure

    You are not a failure, you are an all too common occurance. I am in your boat, there are literally hundreds in the same boat. Your case brings me back to the annoyance of letting retired people with very nice pensions back into the classroom.
    Keep the chin up is all I can say, but **** i know its hard:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    anneh2010 wrote: »
    I am desperate for work, have interviewed in Cavan, Dublin, Meath, Westmeath I really am willing to go where the work is. I cant afford to set up in England and have some experience.

    Work seems to go by who you know not what you know.... I know of 2 jobs that went to a principals daughter and she has a permanent job now. I am desperate. I do not know what else I can do.

    Its so bad out there and i think people in authority do not realise how bad it is.

    I feel like a failure

    Just get it together, anneh. Cut the self-centred melodrama. With thinking like the above you're being the artist of your own downfall. You're also making other people more despondent. You need to calm down, look at things more rationally and keep knocking on doors. One will eventually open. It's basic common sense: the more doors you knock on the more likely you are to get some work. Self-flagellating yourself will get you nowhere; it's a luxury you can't afford. It's time to grow up. And if things are really bad, talk to MABS and rearrange any loans you may have. Downsize.

    And if you've been called to that many interviews, your cv can't be that bad. But let's not allow a positive, realistic thought into all that self-created misery between your ears.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 anneh2010


    Dionysus wrote: »
    Just get it together, anneh. Cut the self-centred melodrama. With thinking like the above you're being the artist of your own downfall. You're also making other people more despondent. You need to calm down, look at things more rationally and keep knocking on doors. One will eventually open. It's basic common sense: the more doors you knock on the more likely you are to get some work. Self-flagellating yourself will get you nowhere; it's a luxury you can't afford. It's time to grow up. And if things are really bad, talk to MABS and rearrange any loans you may have. Downsize.

    And if you've been called to that many interviews, your cv can't be that bad. But let's not allow a positive, realistic thought into all that self-created misery between your ears.


    I think that is a little harsh, I graduated in 2009 and have had very little work in between, if your trying to payback student loans and live its very difficult. I doubt your in a similar position to me, i live at home and still struggle to pay back what i owe. Time to grow up??????? I'm sorry thats just rude.

    Being called to interview and getting a job are two very different things. I have being round nearly every school with CV'S looking for subbing and spoken to many many principals.

    I think I am entitled to feel down as the situation isnt good. How dare you be so rude and insulting. I can help how I feel and all thats between my ears is getting up and applying for teaching jobs and other jobs to tide me over, to which im told i am overqualified.

    Infact I think its time you got into the real world and noticed how difficult it is to stay positive, in a profession where it is who you know not what qualifications and experience you have and that is very very sad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 marylou85


    I'm a NQT (post - primary) and one of the lucky few who are currently employed. I believe that the subjects that you are qualified to teach (registered with the teaching council) play a HUGE factor on employment. This year there were a lot of jobs advertised during the summer for qualified maths and irish teachers and the majority of my PGDE class with these subjects are now working. Other subjects were not as desirable. The combination of subjects you can teach play a huge factor too.... English and French may be advertised often but if you are qualified to teach English and History you would be restricted by your combination. Trying to find a teaching job when your subject combination hasn't appeared in the paper in two weeks can be so disheartening and I can understand the level of frustration being expressed here.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,348 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Being called to interview and getting a job are two very different things.

    At least you're getting called to interviews though. Some of us would love to just get some word back from a school at all <_<


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 anneh2010


    I can understand that, its not like I'm getting them all the time, its few and far between. I wrote to a Senator regarding the lack of feedback/contact and nepotism that happens in schools. The senator wrote to the Minister for Education and he sent me a copy of the letter, by the looks of things there are hundreds of people doing the same thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 49 starre


    Dionysus wrote: »
    Just get it together, anneh. Cut the self-centred melodrama. With thinking like the above you're being the artist of your own downfall. You're also making other people more despondent. You need to calm down, look at things more rationally and keep knocking on doors. One will eventually open. It's basic common sense: the more doors you knock on the more likely you are to get some work. Self-flagellating yourself will get you nowhere; it's a luxury you can't afford. It's time to grow up. And if things are really bad, talk to MABS and rearrange any loans you may have. Downsize.

    And if you've been called to that many interviews, your cv can't be that bad. But let's not allow a positive, realistic thought into all that self-created misery between your ears.

    That's far too harsh on the OP. In fact the comments about nepotism are quite realistic. It's also basic common sense that 100 applicants into one job don't go.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,371 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    anneh2010 wrote: »
    I can understand that, its not like I'm getting them all the time, its few and far between. I wrote to a Senator regarding the lack of feedback/contact and nepotism that happens in schools. The senator wrote to the Minister for Education and he sent me a copy of the letter, by the looks of things there are hundreds of people doing the same thing.

    While nepotism does exist in schools and I've seen it first hand, I don't think graduates are getting the message. There are no jobs out there. Schools are inundated with applications/CVs and simply do not have the space to store them let alone reply to them all.

    I started teaching 10 years ago when there were jobs in teaching and schools weren't swamped in applications and there were plenty who didn't bother replying to me.

    You can write to all the Senators in the world about it and they won't be able to do a thing for you.

    But the way things are now, that would be the least of my worries if I was in your position. Can't remember if it was in this thread or another where one teacher posted that her school had received 600 CVs!!! No principal has the time or will spend the time wading through such a mountain of paperwork or justify the cost (both financial and time wise) in replying to each and every one of them.

    There are new threads in this forum every day from people enquiring about getting into the PGDE/choosing subjects/getting into teaching and the message needs to be repeated over and over again.

    There are no jobs in teaching.

    If the veiled comments about the budget being detrimental to education are anything to go by there aren't going to be many for a long time. I was talking to someone in the last few days who had heard (from someone in Dept) that Transition Year could be for the chop nationally in the budget. I thought about it for a few minutes and realised that it's totally possible.
    • It's essentially an independent program run within schools.
    • It doesn't effect the 2 year cycle to Leaving Cert.
    • It will reduce (over 2 years) the number of teachers employed because the numbers will drop in each school, particularly in schools where it is compulsory. According to http://ty.slss.ie/aboutus.html 27000 students do TY each year, take that number of students out of the education system 27000/20 = 1350 teaching jobs.
    • It will reduce capitation to each school and reduce things like guidance hours, number of posts, resource hours etc, etc.
    • The knock on effect (aside from teacher job losses) would be that in some schools where TY is compulsory there will be a massive fifth year for one year where TY go into fifth year and so do third year at the same time and that LC year will be bigger than normal nationally, which means an even tougher race to get into college.
    • This last one is pushing it a bit, but children's allowance is only paid for students over 16 and under 18 who are in full time education. Getting them out of secondary school a year earlier will have a small effect on this, particularly if they can't all get into college as there won't be enough places.

    Anneh: you can keep trying and making your face known in the local schools and but do continue to keep trying to find other work, because it's not going to get better in schools any time soon.


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