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'No Satellite Dish' rule in Apartment Building - Advice?

  • 09-08-2007 10:04am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 839 ✭✭✭


    Hi Folks,

    I've just ordered a Sky+ installation which will be happening Saturday week. I moved into a new apartment building a couple of weeks ago and one of the conditions/rules of the management company is that satellite dishes are not allowed to be erected on the exterior of the building. This rule has been reiterated and stressed in documentation I have received since moving in. There are, however, satellite dishes on I'd say more than half of the occupied apartments at the moment.

    - Anybody know how serious management companies are about this rule?
    - Is there any chance we will all be forced to remove the dishes?
    - Are there any reasonable alternatives available? If so, is there any extra cost or performance implications and do Sky provide them?

    From what I understand, the Management Company is there to serve the apartment owners, not necessarily tell them what to do (although keep a certain level of control - noise, rubbish, etc). If none of the owners object strongly to dishes, is there any reason the management company should make a fuss about it?

    Thanks,
    Brian


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,303 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Maybe you could get a digiglobe?

    http://www.ddelec.com/digiglobe.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 839 ✭✭✭Dr Pepper


    That looks great thanks machiavellianme, but I've just found it on another site with the price quoted - £250 GBP - Gasp!

    Just found it for £149 GBP on 2 other websites. Still though, not really interested in spending that kinda money!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 923 ✭✭✭VERYinterested


    I remember seeing a newspaper ad recently for DID, I think, and they had some alternative to Satellite dishes for Apartment dwellers and it looked like a picnic table. Maybe give DID a bell, I can't even remember how much it was, sorry it's not much help to you!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 839 ✭✭✭Dr Pepper




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭dade


    Dr Pepper wrote:

    - Anybody know how serious management companies are about this rule?
    - Is there any chance we will all be forced to remove the dishes?
    - Are there any reasonable alternatives available? If so, is there any extra cost or performance implications and do Sky provide them?



    Thanks,
    Brian

    I know of two estates in Dublin that had issues with management over them, one was in the Nothside people. Can't remember the name but management wrote to them about the dishes and also about people having cloths lines erected. these letters where sent to owners in both apartments AND houses. so they where coming down on people with gardens hanging out cloths :rolleyes:

    In Waterside in swords i believe a similar issue arose about the dishes only someone went to consumer rights or some monopoly crowd and where told it may be a breach of their consumer rights to stop them having dishes as they had a right to choose AND as the developer had entered into a prior agreement with some service provider for TV etc they where creating a monopoly which may be again illegal. personally I'm inclined to agree with this.

    I live in Holywell in the Malahide/swords area and apartment owners are also restricted like yourself in relation to dishes but no one takes any notice. Some other residents complain but f them. I think you should be allowed to choose.

    from a planning POV my understanding is they can not be erected to the front of a building and must be under 2M in size (which most domestic ones are) anything other than that and you require planning permission.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 839 ✭✭✭Dr Pepper


    dade wrote:
    AND as the developer had entered into a prior agreement with some service provider for TV etc they where creating a monopoly which may be again illegal.

    Seems to be the same story in my case. I wonder if that is the reasoning behind the dish ban ?? Magnet have the whole place wired with fiber to the home. They have installed 10 network points around the apartment and have a box (which is locked) beside the fuse board where all the cables are terminated. Seems a bit odd, Magnet having a locked box like that in my apartment that I paid for. I'm not that bothered though - Handy enough having the whole place pre-wired for network and a friend of mine working in Magnet has already opened the box for me ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭fluppet


    Demand a communal satellite dish installation - we have one in our apartment building. You just need one dish on the roof. Ours uses SMATV, but I believe there are other options. Any satellite dish installer company should be able to set it up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 839 ✭✭✭Dr Pepper


    fluppet wrote:
    Demand a communal satellite dish installation - we have one in our apartment building. You just need one dish on the roof. Ours uses SMATV, but I believe there are other options. Any satellite dish installer company should be able to set it up.

    I'm confident enough to go ahead now with the Sky installation with the backup of the above linked EU legislation. If the management company would rather a communal dish, I guess they can organise it themselves!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭wil


    You might like to take a look at the previous discussion that effectively concluded your right to have access to a satellite dish wherever you are living under EU law.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055124066&page=3
    Spocketys template may be of use if the management company get shirty.
    Hagar who has a similar problem has indicated he too is likely to fight his management company, if you go same route maybe ye could start a thread on how you go about it and how you get on. Combine your efforts, if enough people do so with common sense intact there is no good reason to lose.

    The flat dishes you refer to above from DID were not effective in France and may or may not be adequate in Ireland but are expensive (299 in DID)
    Good luck

    Adendum - the full 17 page text of the EU commissions publication is at
    http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/ecomm/doc/info_centre/communic_reports/satellite_dish/antenna_en.pdf
    Thanks for the extra German case link.
    see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055128143
    for my comments on the Dutchmans case which are similar here


  • Registered Users Posts: 839 ✭✭✭Dr Pepper


    Thanks again Wil, a mind of information as usual. I just had a good read of that thread.

    I will keep you posted on events but I don't imagine much will come of it. It just seems like bullying and, in my cynicism, I believe may have as much to do with keeping a 'deal' with the non-satellite TV provider as anything else. I just wonder if there are genuine concerns among my fellow residents about the appearance.
    The dishes in place are all small black Sky ones so the fact that they are all uniform helps a lot in terms of the visual impact.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 property


    i am a property manager and would advice anyone attempting to put up a satellite dish on your apartment not to... it will end up costing you money.. most property managment companies will issue you with a 7 day notice to remove the dish or they will remove them. The normal cost of this could be anything between €70 and €150 depending on the managment company. My advice.... get together with your board of directors, discuss your budget options and decide what funds you have available and what items for your community are of improtance. If the funds are available you can request your managment company to put in a communal dish - this can cost anything from €30000 to €50000 for the complex, again depending on how many apartments there are and how new the complex is... if funds are low, then you need to convince everyone to stick to NTL... or get an NTL box GOOD LUCK


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    property wrote: »
    i am a property manager and would advice anyone attempting to put up a satellite dish on your apartment not to... it will end up costing you money.. most property managment companies will issue you with a 7 day notice to remove the dish or they will remove them. The normal cost of this could be anything between €70 and €150 depending on the managment company. My advice.... get together with your board of directors, discuss your budget options and decide what funds you have available and what items for your community are of improtance. If the funds are available you can request your managment company to put in a communal dish - this can cost anything from €30000 to €50000 for the complex, again depending on how many apartments there are and how new the complex is... if funds are low, then you need to convince everyone to stick to NTL... or get an NTL box GOOD LUCK

    This is standard Management Company horse ****, no offence.

    Did you even read the EU directive linked to above? Management companies are in breach of EU laws on freedom and movement of goods and services if they attempt to restrict a citizens right to receive satellite television. It's as simple as that.

    A blanket "no satellite dishes" rule in lease agreements of complex 'house rules' is illegal and should be ignored.

    A communal dish install costing 50,000? Is that sheckels or guineas? :|


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    wil wrote: »
    Hagar who has a similar problem has indicated he too is likely to fight his management company...
    Adendum - the full 17 page text of the EU commissions publication is at
    http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/ecomm/doc/info_centre/communic_reports/satellite_dish/antenna_en.pdf
    Thanks for the extra German case link.
    see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055128143
    for my comments on the Dutchmans case which are similar here

    Just an update. the Management Company came back to me with another demand to remove my dish. I sent them back a PFO letter which quotes from the French equivalents of the documents above plus links to the relevant French laws where the above has been enacted. I haven't heard from them in almost a month. :D


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    That's cool.. though maybe they are spending time coming up with a knockout punch for you!

    I think based on the Dutch guy's case, it seems that the correct procedure when you are asked to remove your dish, is to reply in writing to your Management Company, and request from them in writing what their justification is for making you remove your dish. Only armed with that information can you then fight it.

    I think we all already know what the reasons are generally.
    It is either to protect a monopoly cable provider in the development, or it is to respect aesthetics. Neither of those are grounds for a blanket ban if my interpretation of the EU's documents on it is correct.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Thanks for the encouraging words.:p

    I've been through the early stages where they tell me to take it down and they quote their rules. Then I took it down and went through the motions of asking their permission to put it back up. They give me permission with impossible conditions. I respond with photos of 11 other dishes within the complex and reapply for permission which they again grant with almost the same conditions. I spot a chink in their conditions and put mine back up. They tell me to take it down again. That brings us up to my previous post.

    Just as an aside they supply the six basic French TV channels and TV Monte Carlo on cable. The cost of this is minimal and is included in the basic charges.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    That's good.. pity you took it down though.. I reckon the onus should be on the Management Company to prove a case for you to take it down, and not on you to prove a case for being allowed to put it up as it is a fundamental human right...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Borzoi


    spockety wrote: »
    That's good.. pity you took it down though.. I reckon the onus should be on the Management Company to prove a case for you to take it down, and not on you to prove a case for being allowed to put it up as it is a fundamental human right...


    Just a minor point - as an apartment 'owner' - you're actually just a leaseholder. The external property belongs to the management company. So they get to decide what may or may not be attached to their property.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    And as an apartment owner, you ARE a shareholder of the Management Company.
    So you do have a vested interest in the external property.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    you can request your managment company to put in a communal dish - this can cost anything from €30000 to €50000 for the complex

    The phrase "bend over" springs to mind :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,180 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    you need planning permission for a satelite dish. so you can be forced to remove it


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    ted1 wrote: »
    you need planning permission for a satelite dish. so you can be forced to remove it

    You need to do some research before posting as this is not the case for every situation.

    Desktop PC Boards discount code on https://www.satellite.ie/ is boards.ie



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    property wrote: »
    If the funds are available you can request your managment company to put in a communal dish - this can cost anything from €30000 to €50000 for the complex, again depending on how many apartments there are and how new the complex is... if funds are low, then you need to convince everyone to stick to NTL... or get an NTL box GOOD LUCK


    Did someone quote you these figures? Seem way above what I would consider reasonable

    Desktop PC Boards discount code on https://www.satellite.ie/ is boards.ie



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    ted1 wrote: »
    you need planning permission for a satelite dish. so you can be forced to remove it

    Rarely true. You need permission if the building is listed, or the dish is over 1 metre, or its a second dish per dwelling, or is on the front - if its on the back, under 1 metre, and on its own it needs no permission.

    In the UK you're allowed two dishes, one 1M one 60cm (or lower), rear-facing; and assuming you're not in a "conservation area".

    50k for a communal system is daylight robbery unless you're talking about wiring a massive complex - a single apartment block wouldn't come close to that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Communal works out about 200 Euro a person.

    All Agreed Myob.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,219 ✭✭✭markpb


    Our MA talked to several companies about fitting communal dishes in my estate and got prices over €150,00 for installation for a 5 block, 321 unit estate mainly because the buildings don't have provision for internal cabling so €50,000 for a smaller estate could be reasonable enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    If access routes have to be created from scratch then yes it will be more expensive but in most cases some of the existing wiring can be used. 200 per apartment would be ok if you are doing it at the build stage but a figure of 4 to 500 per apartment I think is more realistic on an existing build with cable route access. Its just a pity that no consideration is given to this at the design stage. It has serious consequences for the apartment dwellers.

    Desktop PC Boards discount code on https://www.satellite.ie/ is boards.ie



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Unless the builders have used atrociously poor cables or a terrible layout on whatever system is installed - there has to at least be a communal aerial system surely - it should be reusable. Won't be able to provide dual feeds for Sky+ over it, though.

    If its cable thats in to all the apartments, well, it'll be difficult unless you can use the same ducts/cabinets as UPC have...


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,219 ✭✭✭markpb


    I don't know the exact details of my estate but it was pre-wired by Eircom and NTL. I'm not sure there's any spare cabling, ducting might be available but I wouldn't hold my breath. There was also an annual service charge but I can't remember how much or what for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭wil


    Hagar, great to hear the positive update, was going to ask.
    I hope you are getting everything in writing from them. As spockety mentioned, as in the previous cases the onus seems to be on you to prove that they refused to abide by the Freedom of Services.
    If I read you correctly your posts are in reverse order and you do still have the dish up.
    Hagar wrote:
    They give me permission with impossible conditions..
    That sounds in direct contravention of the Act. Any conditions have to be the exception.
    They must be applied in a non-discriminatory way; (seem like they are allowing 11 others but not yours)
    They must be Justified - are they?
    The restrictions must be duly substantiated, considerations real, not merely a pretext.

    I dont think there can be a knockout blow in this case, the laws are clear enough, but threats of long protracted court proceedings would probably knock out most people and thats what they rely on. Take heart from the US situation, if capitalist might didnt win there then its unlikely to do better in France.

    (If every dish owner made a donation towards your incidental legal costs by depositing in to Hagars Dish Rights in Complexes fund henceforth known as Hagars DRinCs fund then we could get this stated for once and for all in case law or at least at the Bar:D)

    Perhaps after reading the docs they are thinking smart-derrière and moved on to harassing someone else.:)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    wil wrote: »
    Perhaps after reading the docs they are thinking smart-derrière and moved on to harassing someone else.:)
    That is exactly my thinking. BTW I even bought a transparent acrylic dish to minimise the visual impact. Also the installation has not damaged the exterior of the building in any way, there are no holes in the walls, I used a clamp system to attach it to the bars on the balcony. The cable passes through the exterior wall using a small pre-existing hole, I think a previous owner had an electrical cable running onto the balcony for something or other.


This discussion has been closed.
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