Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Learner permits driving alone. Enforcement?

245

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    some driving testers are grand but some of them fail you on the slightest little thing
    That's a myth usually peddled by those who have been unsuccessful. You need to have had several "slighest little things" in different categories and combinations before failing a test.

    No one fails a driving test on "the slightest little thing".


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,666 ✭✭✭mondeo


    Lots of people driving alone with their L plates up and they dont appear to be stopped. Their is not a witch hunt going on like people initially thought their would be when the law was first brought in. You could take your L plates off and get away with it for the moment if your careful and not cutting corners and taking wide left turns which makes it obvious you took your L plates off.

    The driving testers have to have a certain number of pass's and fails each month so you could become a fail statistic even if you are a perfect driver...


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Their is not a witch hunt going on

    So law enforcement against delinquents is a "witch hunt".
    The driving testers have to have a certain number of pass's and fails each month so you could become a fail statistic even if you are a perfect driver...

    Bollix.

    I think the government lost the plot on this one. Having finally ended the ridiculous situation where you could fail a driving test and just drive off, they had a long period for people to get used to the idea. They should have brought in regulations prohibiting the display of L plates by by other than learner drivers and should have stopped everyone with L plates and one person in the car, or on motorways etc. They should have sought from insurance companies a list of vehicles insured for learner drivers, to assist detection of those not displaying L plates. People could have had a warning, but this would recorded and any further offence would have be enforced.

    This would have seen motoring laws being respected, for once, rather than a situation where the least experienced drivers are the least law abiding.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,666 ✭✭✭mondeo


    ardmacha wrote: »
    So law enforcement against delinquents is a "witch hunt".



    Bollix.

    I think the government lost the plot on this one. Having finally ended the ridiculous situation where you could fail a driving test and just drive off, they had a long period for people to get used to the idea. They should have brought in regulations prohibiting the display of L plates by by other than learner drivers and should have stopped everyone with L plates and one person in the car, or on motorways etc. They should have sought from insurance companies a list of vehicles insured for learner drivers, to assist detection of those not displaying L plates. People could have had a warning, but this would recorded and any further offence would have be enforced.

    This would have seen motoring laws being respected, for once, rather than a situation where the least experienced drivers are the least law abiding.

    It's not "Bollix" Ask a tester and they will tell you they have to have a percentage of pass's and fails...

    "witch hunt being a figure of speech"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,309 ✭✭✭VolvoMan


    R.O.R wrote: »
    Well, if they are that good - WHY DON'T THEY PASS THE FU**ING TEST???

    The driving test is the luck of the draw for some. There are test centres that have a dreadful pass rate and some people are unlucky enough to get them when they apply for the test. Other people can be rubbish drivers and it can be the other way around.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,659 ✭✭✭✭Ally Dick


    Lets face the facts a) Irish cops are extremely lazy and brassed off with the government for being included in the pension levy
    b) This is reflected in the huge amount of law breaking going on


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,407 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    moved to LTD!


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    VolvoMan wrote: »
    There are test centres that have a dreadful pass rate and some people are unlucky enough to get them when they apply for the test
    Eh, the candidate selects the test centre!

    What test centres have a "dreadful" pass rate?

    No matter how high an average is, someone has to be at the bottom of an overall list.

    If you were to list the top speeds of all Ferraris made over the past 20 years, one model has to be the slowest. Does that mean that it is a slow car?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    mondeo wrote: »
    The driving testers have to have a certain number of pass's and fails each month so you could become a fail statistic even if you are a perfect driver...
    It's times like these that we need a massive 'roll eyes' icon! :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭DrivingMad


    Statistics...../ numbers...... hmmmm
    I have my own statistics. In the last two years, two members of my family have been involved in accidents with two learner drivers. One was so serious that my relative nearly died.
    I do have to wonder if the law had been enforced, would these two accidents have occurred?
    (Yes I know the new law was only passed last year on 2nd permit holders, these two accidents were by first year permit holders, which to my knowledge, has always prohibited them from driving unaccompanied. I'm sure I will be corrected if not.)

    These are my statistics and dont personally feel that there is any excuse for this law not to be enforced.
    Having said that, pleeeaaase instead of thinking of ways to outsmart this law, why not just go for it and pass your test?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The driving testers have to have a certain number of pass's and fails each month so you could become a fail statistic even if you are a perfect driver..
    There are test centres that have a dreadful pass rate and some people are unlucky enough to get them when they apply for the test

    Let's see if I have this right. So testers are required to have a specific number of passes and failures, but this number differs from centre to centre. This must be confusing if a tester goes to work in another centre! You would think they would just "force" the testers to have the same pass rate everywhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    but 2nd provisional drivers should have enough experience to be able to drive without someone beside you who cant do anything anyway.....


    your assuming that someone on a 2nd provisional has been driving for at least two years on a 1st before getting a 2nd but in alot of cases people applied for a 1st provisional and never used it. They either got it just to use as id or they planned to learn to drive but something came up. I got my 1st provisional but then moved to New York so when I came home and wanted to learn to drive I ended up on a 2nd provisional having never sat behind the wheel of a car.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭messygirl


    Ally Dick wrote: »
    Lets face the facts a) Irish cops are extremely lazy and brassed off with the government for being included in the pension levy
    b) This is reflected in the huge amount of law breaking going on

    excuse me but my brother is a garda and he spends too much time on rape cases and child abuse cases to be worrying about learner drivers. His friend in garda college had a gun pulled on hi, when chasing on foot a robber and my brother had drugged up men attack him with slash hooks so PLEASE don't make assumptions that all gardai are lazy, my dad is also a cop and when I was young he would be working every christmas day, every new year night, asleep during the day because he was on shift duty, got chased and nearly killed by a guy on lsd and broke his two hands while on duty, so if you have met every single garda in the country and observed what they have done and still deem them lazy then I will take my post back, but blaming law breaking on cops caring less because of the pension levy is ridiculous, next you will be having a go at the teachers, maybe they are involved in some conspiracy too to wreck the country with their laziness. I personally would prefer to se the gardai working on the biggest killers like speed and drugs and drink

    Regarding the 10 lessons my bad I heard they were going to bring in a rule saying you had so much experience and lessons before you could take the test, open to corrections.

    When i did my test I had a perfect sheet except for gears (as in an estate i should have been driving on 4th apparently but stayed on 3rd) can you tell me how gears makes me an unsafe driver?had like 5 ticks, which personally i think is ridiculous because i always drive between 2-2500 revs which is what my car can handle, and i had taken about 8 driving lessons before that

    Driving mad I am very sorry to hear about your relatives,it must be heard wondering what if all the time, my cousin died because he wasnt wearing his seatbelt about 15 years ago and it was traumatic for his parents, if the government had made it their job to ensure everyone was wearing setabelts he could be married with kids by now, this must be a tough topic for you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 133 ✭✭not14talk


    Paulw wrote: »
    They very much should enforce it. It's the law.

    A prime example was on Traffic Blues - a woman, learner driver, L plates up, driving alone (no full license with her) with 5 kids in the back (not wearing belts), and she tried to reverse away from a Garda checkpoint, but yet when the Gardai got to her, they just spoke to her, nothing more than that - a warning.

    Now, she was a danger to herself, the kids, and cars around (as she tried to escape the checkpoint). Surely that should be dealt with????

    She got two penalty point for the kids not wearing there seat belts and at the time of the recording of the program there was no penalty points for driving unaccompanied which there is now.

    I am a learner and as much as I find it a pain in the ass to find someone to come with me I do think its a good law even though its not enforced. Like people using 'there is no public transport where I live' excuse to them driving unaccompanied is just stupid waiting times are now down from 48 to 10 weeks and you should take the time to do your test.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    messygirl wrote: »
    excuse me but my brother is a garda and he spends too much time on rape cases and child abuse cases to be worrying about learner drivers..

    Why would members of the Garda traffic corps be investigating rape cases? I understand getting protective when people start dissing the Garda, my mums a doctor and I'm quick to step in when people start saying all doctors are money grabbing and lazy. Not all Garda worry about driving laws but for some of them that's all they focus on so they should be enforcing all the laws.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 RSA ADI MARK


    hi all did any one watch traffic blues,then you will see how lacks the law is:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    This post has been deleted.

    Good question, and it boils down to the old Irish attitude of 'ah sure go on, you're causing no harm'. Not right now they're not, but they have a much higher chance of causing themselves or someone else harm in the future, if this stuff is ignored.

    Slowly but surely attitudes change, so we can hope that in say, 20 years, the idea of driving on your own on a provisional will seem ridiculous, in the way that smoking in a pub does now :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The smoking ban is a good example of the difference between doing the job right and the present approach. When the smoking ban was introduced they simply said that it would be enforced, end of story. When a few pubs tried to give the finger to the law they simply prosecuted them. The others then fell into line. All that is needed with L drivers is exactly the same approach. State that the law will be enforced, round up any scofflaws and then the problem will be minimal, but if you subsequently encounter any chancers at checkpoints etc then fine them too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,659 ✭✭✭✭Ally Dick


    messygirl wrote: »
    but blaming law breaking on cops caring less because of the pension levy is ridiculous.

    Well I do blame them. Little apples grow into an orchard. Lazy community policing and the fact that garda patrols seem to be a thing of the past has caused anarchy on our streets. Small petty crime is "let go" by the guards and then this leads to more and more serious crime. We need zero tolerance in this country and the gardai are not prepared to do it. They put on their poor victimised civil servants hats now, and hide in their police stations. They are fuming over the pension levy. They are on a work to rule e.g. a go slow. They are quite prepared to let the country go to rack and ruin so they can hold the government to ransom for a wage increase. They don't deserve the huge wages they are currently earning, as it is !


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,407 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Ally Dick wrote: »
    Well I do blame them. Little apples grow into an orchard. Lazy community policing and the fact that garda patrols seem to be a thing of the past has caused anarchy on our streets. Small petty crime is "let go" by the guards and then this leads to more and more serious crime. We need zero tolerance in this country and the gardai are not prepared to do it. They put on their poor victimised civil servants hats now, and hide in their police stations. They are fuming over the pension levy. They are on a work to rule e.g. a go slow. They are quite prepared to let the country go to rack and ruin so they can hold the government to ransom for a wage increase. They don't deserve the huge wages they are currently earning, as it is !
    Which country is this supposed to be in? :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,659 ✭✭✭✭Ally Dick


    kbannon wrote: »
    Which country is this supposed to be in? :confused:

    It's happening all over Ireland. Look at the results on the paper every day - criminality is rife. The message is out there for every criminal that they can do what they like and get away with it. What about the lack of cops at Slane for the concert? What about all the drugs and assaults ? It's getting worse and worse every day.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,407 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Ally Dick wrote: »
    It's happening all over Ireland. Look at the results on the paper every day - criminality is rife. The message is out there for every criminal that they can do what they like and get away with it. What about the lack of cops at Slane for the concert? What about all the drugs and assaults ? It's getting worse and worse every day.
    You claimed that we have "anarchy on our streets" - where is this anarchy?

    As for the crime rates, do you seriously believe that gardai sit on their arses all day waiting for their shift to finish?
    Slane was a balls up and personally I would look more towards MCD as the principal organisers. However, it wasn't a lack of gardai that caused the main problems with the event. As for the drug problem - I wasn't there but the only reference to drugs that I heard of was a big bust in the VIP area!

    I do believe that we need more gardai on the beat and less sitting waiting themselves in the courts. However, this isn't their fault. We have leaders who could legislate for all of this if they wished.

    We have an underfunded force who don't have proper tools to deal with todays scumbags - they don't even have proper radios. We have a public who are content in keeping this situation by buying drugs/stolen goods/etc. However, they still go out and do thier job despite all of this (and despite your view), knowing that sooner or later they could end up in hospital and possibly feel what they do is not aknowledged by the public (such as yourself).

    The gardai are using common sense when it comes to enforcing many laws (such as the accompanied learner driver law). Don't use it as an excuse to label all gardai as lazy or incompetent.

    Now lets get back on topic!


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Ally Dick wrote: »
    Small petty crime is "let go" by the guards and then this leads to more and more serious crime. We need zero tolerance in this country and the gardai are not prepared to do it
    The judiciary are responsible for much of this - not the Gardai. The Garda does the groundwork but when the case is brought to court, the judges dismiss it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭messygirl


    sorry i wasnt probably clear, my brother is a normal garda in a small station, from what i heard the traffic corps are very strict, its the normal gardai who are more lenient.

    and he doesn't let petty crime pass, if anything if they had more powers they might be able to do more.
    Slane is a private gig, it should be the responsibility of the people making thousands and thousands of euro to provide security instead of taking gardai away from solving real crimes (even though i am pretty sure the gig compensates the government but still its less gardai on the streets of dublin etc).
    Petty crime is on the increase because of the recession and because of young people not respecting the law.

    Regarding the L plates I have to admit ye are changing my view of it, but I still think a proper structure needs to be put into place to fully facilitate this and to stop blaming the police,

    Also I havent heard anything about the gardai being on a work to rule, and frankly Im geting really annoyed and insulted by this slandering of gardai, they can't be everywhere at once and they do a pretty good job considering they are fighting people with slash hooks, knives and guns using wooden batons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22 IgnatiusPop


    It really pisses me off though.

    I am a learner driver myself. I've seen several of my friends driving around with their L plates, or taking them off, unaccompanied.

    Their reason for doing it? "Sure you never get caught". :rolleyes:

    I will never drive unaccompanied. Partly because I'm going to be on my Dad's insurance, in his car, and he is sure as hell not going to let me, but mainly because I don't want to break the law, putting other's people's life in danger, just so I can get around.

    People say that they don't have any choice or whatever, which just is ridiculous.
    I really hope that the Gardai tackle down on it more in the future.

    Sorry, needed to rant. :o


    If you had said that 2 years ago, I probably would have disagreed, because the waiting times for getting a test were crazy (up to almost a year in some parts of the country:eek:) and many people need the car to get to work. However, in the past 12 months or so we have seen a big reduction of the waiting times (approx 10 weeks) from the time that you pay the fee for the test to the time you get to sit it, and because of that, I agree that people who get a provisional, should spend a little time getting used to the car, ie a month or two of driving the car at least once a day, and then move onto applying for a full licence. That way most people can have their first provisional, and their full licence within a year (or less depending on how long it takes to get comfortable with driving), and you would have less people arseing around on their 3rd or 4th provisional in breech of the law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Sunjammer


    I think most Gardai use the common sense approach to the unaccompanied driver law if they see that the driver is capable then they let it go, lets not forget here the test is just 30-40 minutes and in fact some full licensed drivers have never been tested, it does not mean the driver is perfect for passing it ;),

    The Gardai also perfer to be stopping real crime and like to get along with the public, it is the public who they get most help from in fighting crime, If they were to enforce and punish every little detail of the law they would not get much co-operation from the public hense the reason the Gardai tend to be leinient on the not so serious issues of law... and rightly so too IMO!

    Show me a person who says they have never ever broken a law of some sort and I'll show you a liar :p:p:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35 hayyman


    messygirl wrote: »
    Driving mad I am very sorry to hear about your relatives,it must be heard wondering what if all the time, my cousin died because he wasnt wearing his seatbelt about 15 years ago and it was traumatic for his parents, if the government had made it their job to ensure everyone was wearing setabelts he could be married with kids by now, this must be a tough topic for you.

    What has the goverment got to do with your cousin not wearing his seatbelt, your cousin made the choice not to wear his seatbelt just like provisional drivers choose to drive on there own.The laws should be inforced and if the gaurds arent goin to inforce it then lets not do people for speeding or not stopping at a red traffic lights so.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭messygirl


    im just trying to make the point that back 15 years ago seatbelt wearing wasnt that important and he died and its horrible and you aer always thinking what if? (i didnt know him too well but you can still see the affect on his parents) and you can't always try and think of things like that,

    Donegal fella we have a law in place rather than a structure that facilitates proper learning of driving, I meant maybe facilitating the learning of driving rules in schools, having more of an influence on young drivers by teaching them rules of the roads and having people go to schools to talk about the dangers and the positives and all that, America has a good system and it means the quality of drivers over there are (so i heard before anyone feels like jumping down my throat) superior to over here. they get permits when still in school and learn from the beginning how to drive, rather than being put into a car with an inexperienced instructor (my boyfriend tried to teach me and it was so different from a proper instructer, my parents etc sat in the car and it was still different) over in ireland its jump in the car with your parents and head down the n7 and thats legal. i think the smoking ban analogy is good in the way it shows how enforcement is an active way forward, but you cant compare having to go outside to a beer garden with having to wait to find someone to drive with you.


Advertisement