The middle aged Irish woman

dj jarvis · 30-04-2012 5:47pm

Feeona wrote: »

So it's alright for you to make a point in jest, but not Windsock? I thought her comment was funny, no bitterness in it at all! It's ironic that you talk about not being able to make comments about women without getting hassled, yet you hassle Windsock for her comment!

ok all subjective i suppose , i took it another way , and if you have a look at the comments flying my way for having the cheek to suppose that irish women ( in my humble experience ) dont do constructive criticism about their appearance as well as other nations

this was my point in its entirety , nothing else

and ill ask the question to the male posters - do you think irish women can take it if you mention they might need a hair cut or do a bit of walking ?

me , i would not dare as, i know how MOST i know would react
how am i so at fault for mentioning this ?

my apology to windsock for any upset cause , becasue 100% none intentioned

afraid to ask some questions these days

** just seen your post windsock - notice you did not point out where i had my claws out before i started getting it for asking such a cheeky question , as for your assertion about me and my posts - i take it you have read all 934 of them to make your conclusion ? **

shopaholic01 · 30-04-2012 6:03pm

This thread was fun, now it's gotten serious:(. Again

*sigh*

Feeona · 30-04-2012 6:06pm

lamai wrote: »

I'd say there are more overweight women

I'd say there are more overweight men.

Dudess · 30-04-2012 6:38pm

Emme wrote: »

Sorry Prettypole, Irish guys don't give Irish women flowers and the only surprises they give us are unpleasant ones.

Bord Failte are paying these guys to treat Polish and other foreign women well so Irish guys get a good reputation abroad.

Speak for yourself. You're doing just what some guys here do - blaming an entire gender for your personal experiences.

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

i find alot of irish women hit 40 chop the hair into that square shaped omni style and look like men with boobs.

I don't.

Sleepy wrote: »

Or maybe he can just do maths. Irish life expectancy is 79.5

Ergo a woman who's aged between 35 and 45 is precisely middle aged.

http://www.google.ie/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idim=country:IRL&dl=en&hl=en&q=irish+life+expectancy

(they don't tend to like it when you tell them that though. They're "young" until 50 these days, *then* "middle aged" until 70 or so when they finally accept they're "getting on a bit". Sure you're not "elderly in this country til you've been retired for at *least* a decade. :rolleyes:

It's referring to how the hallmarks of middle-aged life no longer hit in one's late 30s/40s - and you know it.

The King of Moo · 30-04-2012 6:42pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

jesus moo who rattled your cage ?????

making the point that we ( as posters , not men ) cant say ANYTHING about the fairer sex with out getting the almost instant " all men are bastards " response

i know we can debate men and women at the same time , im not stupid
it just strikes me that ANY criticism is met with a barrage of near hate against us men folk

i think that might say more about the women than the men in this case

oh and nice one for ignoring the fact that i also pointed out that middle aged men are as prone to the middle age decline and bitterness

context is everything ya know

It's not true to say that if men say anything about women, they're instantly criticised.
First of all, from what I can see, only three out of the many male posters in this thread have been criticised for their attitudes towards women (and one of them was pretty far out in his hatred of women). Those men were criticised as individuals, not as representatives of all Irish men.

No-one has said anything close to "all Irish men are bastards," except for one poster suggesting Irish men wouldn't be likely to buy flowers for a woman, who was countered with the argument that that wasn't true of all Irish men.

Second of all, valid criticism of some Irish women would be perfectly acceptable. I myself said, for example:

I don't think anyone would argue that all Irish women are amazing creatures. Like men, some of them are awesome, some of them are insufferable, and a lot of them fall somewhere in between those extremes.

Now that's somewhat critical of some Irish women, and I don't think anyone jumped down my throat about it because I don't think anyone would argue with that point. Like men and women all over the world, there's good and bad ones. No-one's suggesting all Irish women are angels: far from it.

The kind of criticism people do take issue with, however, is gross generalisations about all Irish women which obviously can't be true of the entire female population, and ignoring the fact that some factors about Irish women apply equally to Irish men.

Finally, as for ignoring your comment about middle-aged Irish men: I didn't ignore it really. I didn't feel the need to mention it as I think it's relevant to the thread. Which was kind of my point: you can't blame people for calling out the OP on not mentioning middle-aged overweight Irish men, as they're completely relevant to the discussion.

Micky Dolenz · 30-04-2012 6:47pm

Mod

Let's just try to get along. There'll be prizes.

Eve_Dublin · 30-04-2012 6:53pm

These threads never end well. Why bother?

eviltwin · 30-04-2012 6:54pm

Whats middle aged these days? 40+? Nearly there :eek:

I am not a babe or a stunner, I have roots that need doing, I need to lose a stone ( or two

), I could do with some decent new clothes, I don't wear makeup. No man would look twice at me but so what?

I am actually in a very happy place, much happier now than when I was obsessing about looks, trying to be something I could never attain. I am probably a lot more crabby these days, work, kids, the recession tend to do that but again so what?

I think my man knows he is lucky to have me and wouldn't swap me for the world

The King of Moo · 30-04-2012 6:57pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

ok all subjective i suppose , i took it another way , and if you have a look at the comments flying my way for having the cheek to suppose that irish women ( in my humble experience ) dont do constructive criticism about their appearance as well as other nations

this was my point in its entirety , nothing else

and ill ask the question to the male posters - do you think irish women can take it if you mention they might need a hair cut or do a bit of walking ?

me , i would not dare as, i know how MOST i know would react
how am i so at fault for mentioning this ?

my apology to windsock for any upset cause , becasue 100% none intentioned

afraid to ask some questions these days

** just seen your post windsock - notice you did not point out where i had my claws out before i started getting it for asking such a cheeky question , as for your assertion about me and my posts - i take it you have read all 934 of them to make your conclusion ? **

No, I don't think you can make such a claim about all, or even the majority, of Irish women. I know many women who aren't very vain and wouldn't care less about someone saying such things to them.

I also know many women who aren't vain but would take exception to such comments if they were put so bluntly.

Gist- all women are different and the only thing you can really say about all Irish women is that they're Irish and women.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

These threads never end well. Why bother?

For me, it's masochism, and the vague fear that someone might actually listen to the insane ramblings of the very occasional misogynistic loon unless someone shows them that they're wrong.

dj jarvis · 30-04-2012 7:01pm

The King of Moo wrote: »

It's not true to say that if men say anything about women, they're instantly criticised.
First of all, from what I can see, only three out of the many male posters in this thread have been criticised for their attitudes towards women (and one of them was pretty far out in his hatred of women). Those men were criticised as individuals, not as representatives of all Irish men.

No-one has said anything close to "all Irish men are bastards," except for one poster suggesting Irish men wouldn't be likely to buy flowers for a woman, who was countered with the argument that that wasn't true of all Irish men.

Second of all, valid criticism of some Irish women would be perfectly acceptable. I myself said, for example:

Now that's somewhat critical of some Irish women, and I don't think anyone jumped down my throat about it because I don't think anyone would argue with that point. Like men and women all over the world, there's good and bad ones. No-one's suggesting all Irish women are angels: far from it.

The kind of criticism people do take issue with, however, is gross generalisations about all Irish women which obviously can't be true of the entire female population, and ignoring the fact that some factors about Irish women apply equally to Irish men.

Finally, as for ignoring your comment about middle-aged Irish men: I didn't ignore it really. I didn't feel the need to mention it as I think it's relevant to the thread. Which was kind of my point: you can't blame people for calling out the OP on not mentioning middle-aged overweight Irish men, as they're completely relevant to the discussion.

look , i agree with a lot of what your saying , to a point ,
but if people read my initial post it was far from anti women or trying to paint all women negatively , far from it

but in AH, debates like this do have a tendancy to go this direction , where if someone talks about white - within seconds some one else will jump in and say that black is at fault

can we not have a discussion about something without the usual " no its your fault " circus ? it always takes away from the initial point

i have NO problem getting into a debate about how Irish men need to shape up , none at all - but i really dont think i would have gotten the same response from men if i leveled some constructive criticism at them

really as i have said before , its hard to judge what can be asked ,
is it such a sensitive question to ask ? by some of the responses it must be

Dudess · 30-04-2012 7:03pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

jesus - what is it with Ah ? if someone says something about women sure as **** smells the "but men are as bad/worse

Um... no, it's not when merely "something" is said about women, it's when insults are thrown out. And what's wrong with asking "Why single out women? Why not just discuss how some people in general let themselves go?"

it really looks like the irish lady just cant take being talked about without going into meow mode

"Talked about"? Nope, bashed. There's obviously a big difference. Is it really so unreasonable for someone to simply defend themselves? Would you find it more in keeping with your preferences that women just say nothing?

one thing they just don't do in this country is constructive criticism - mention anything and they go straight for the eyes

What on earth is constructive criticism about this thread? It's a pot-shot exercise - nothing else. And "one thing they can't do in this country" and "mention anything and they go straight for the eyes" are just unsubstantiated and vague.

if some one wants to start asking the same question as the OP about men and start a thread , great , i can add to the balding , fat , lazy bastard debate

If anyone were to start a thread targetting men specifically in relation to middle-aged spread, they'd be a pretty sad case tbh.

dj jarvis wrote: »

you are a prime example of exactly the point i was making

No, all she did was object to a spiteful comment made about all Irish women, not even specific ones. Do you really think that's unreasonable of her as an Irish woman?

dj jarvis wrote: »

making the point that we ( as posters , not men ) cant say ANYTHING about the fairer sex with out getting the almost instant " all men are bastards " response

You can say "anything" - and no, "all men are bastards" is said here extremely rarely. Why are you lying?

it just strikes me that ANY criticism is met with a barrage of near hate against us men folk

No, not "any", just the barrage of near hate - and only against the men who make those comments, not menfolk in general.

dj jarvis wrote: »

can you point out where " my claws " were out ????

Are you serious?!

the bitterness is strong in this one

What bitterness? Oh yeah, defending herself - whatever next?!

Only saying this because you usually come across as pretty reasonable - if you were one of the usual small but vocal crew you wouldn't be worth bothering with.

I will concede that women definitely seem more sensitive than men when it comes to their appearance (although it wouldn't surprise me if men were more sensitive then they let on) and yeah I agree there are women who'd flip the lid if their partner dropped hints that they were becoming less attractive because of not making any effort, but insults for the sake of insults (which are what this thread is based on) are just in really poor spirit and in breach of the "Don't be a dick" rule.
I also see plenty of women in the 30s/40s age group here who look fantastic and look after themselves - in a much smaller city than Dublin. It's just a lie by malcontented people that Irish women are mostly an awful state.
I see plenty of men looking great too. I also disagree with any generalisations about Irish men letting themselves go on a mass scale.

Piste · 30-04-2012 7:06pm

To be honest the same could be said of the middle aged Irish man...in general the middle aged Irish person is a bit of a beast.

The King of Moo · 30-04-2012 7:08pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

look , i agree with a lot of what your saying , to a point ,
but if people read my initial post it was far from anti women or trying to paint all women negatively , far from it

but in AH, debates like this do have a tendancy to go this direction , where if someone talks about white - within seconds some one else will jump in and say that black is at fault

can we not have a discussion about something without the usual " no its your fault " circus ? it always takes away from the initial point

i have NO problem getting into a debate about how Irish men need to shape up , none at all - but i really dont think i would have gotten the same response from men if i leveled some constructive criticism at them

really as i have said before , its hard to judge what can be asked ,
is it such a sensitive question to ask ? by some of the responses it must be

Debating health and weight issues is fine, and relevant: we have a bit of an obesity problem.
The big problem is when generalisations are made, or when an OP focusses on one gender when the issue applies to both.

There's nothing wrong with debates about gender either, but again, the problems arrive when people make specific claims about an entire gender which aren't true.

So, for example: someone might look at official obesity figures and say "Look at this: we're more officially obese than these other countries: what do you all think of that?"
That would possibly lead to a reasonable discussion.

Similarly, if figures indicated that one gender was markedly more obese than the other, someone might start a thread reasonably asking why this was so, and suggesting some reasons.
Now gender is a tricky issue and attracts extreme views, but again, a reasonable debate might be possible.

Reasonable discussions based on reality are fine; generalisations with little basis in reality are annoying.

mattjack · 30-04-2012 7:08pm

Sappa wrote: »

If you look at take me out Ireland and take me out Uk version,the girls on the Uk one are all stunners,while a few on tge Irish one are decent.

Whoa, just hold it right there ...... did you just admit to watching that shi,te ?

dj jarvis · 30-04-2012 7:20pm

Dudess wrote: »

Um... no, it's not when merely "something" is said about women, it's when insults are thrown out. And what's wrong with asking "Why single out women? Why not just discuss how some people in general let themselves go?"

"Talked about"? Nope, bashed. There's obviously a big difference. Is it really so unreasonable for someone to simply defend themselves? Would you find it more in keeping with your preferences that women just say nothing?

What on earth is constructive criticism about this thread? It's a pot-shot exercise - nothing else. And "one thing they can't do in this country" and "mention anything and they go straight for the eyes" are just unsubstantiated and vague.

If anyone were to start a thread targetting men specifically in relation to middle-aged spread, they'd be a pretty sad case tbh.

No, all she did was object to a spiteful comment made about all Irish women, not even specific ones. Do you really think that's unreasonable of her as an Irish woman?

You can say "anything" - and no, "all men are bastards" is said here extremely rarely. Why are you lying?

No, not "any", just the barrage of near hate - and only against the men who make those comments, not menfolk in general.

Are you serious?!

What bitterness? Oh yeah, defending herself - whatever next?!

Only saying this because you usually come across as pretty reasonable - if you were one of the usual small but vocal crew you wouldn't be worth bothering with.

I will concede that women definitely seem more sensitive than men when it comes to their appearance (although it wouldn't surprise me if men were more sensitive then they let on) and yeah I agree there are women who'd flip the lid if their partner dropped hints that they were becoming less attractive because of not making any effort, but insults for the sake of insults (which are what this thread is based on) are just in really poor spirit and in breach of the "Don't be a dick" rule.
I also see plenty of women in the 30s/40s age group here who look fantastic and look after themselves - in a much smaller city than Dublin. It's just a lie by malcontented people that Irish women are mostly an awful state.
I see plenty of men looking great too. I also disagree with any generalisations about Irish men letting themselves go on a mass scale.

sorry but
1 , when in all this did i bash anyone - ??? i NEVER did such a thing
2 , i did not offer any constructive criticism , i said it can be a touchy subject and hard to mention - so either my post was read wrong or ignored
3, what spiteful comment did i make ? and any hostility from me was in responce to others pointed towards me ( the 2 main protagonists in this also had a attempt at me in another thread - but i suppose its just coincidence they are the same ones here also )
4 as for all men are bastards comment - its true , but you also get the a women are gee bags brigade also , dont subscribe to this but you delude yourself if you think it does not happen

dudess i have huge respect for your posting style , and enjoy reading your posts but really , if people read my first post , then the subsequent posts is it not fair to say that an over reaction to what is a simple question ??

but im not surprised by who is taking offense to all this ( again not you dudess ) , childish really

Gyalist · 30-04-2012 7:21pm

Men discussing women's appearance is always fraught with danger. I'll repost something that I posted a few days ago:

A man is walking behind his wife and says,

"Honey, you're getting fat, your arse is as wide as a washing machine."

The woman says nothing and keeps walking.

Later at bed time, the man tries to get a little bit of loving.

The woman says, "I can't start the washing machine for such a small load.
You'll have to hand wash it yourself!"

Gummy Panda · 30-04-2012 7:23pm

Someone give me an update. Was there any pics of sexy Irish milfs posted?

Abi · 30-04-2012 7:31pm

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Someone give me an update. Was there any pics of sexy Irish milfs posted?

Fraid you're out of luck Panda. This just be 'nother one of them generalisation-have-dig-at-women threads.

Will a belly rub do ya?

Robdude · 30-04-2012 7:33pm

What's the point?

If you were a supermodel in your 20s - maybe you'd look decent in your mid 40s. If you were average looking in your 20s? Good luck. There is very little benefit for the amount of time and effort it would take to try and stay pretty. And all it would do is delay the onset of being ugly be a few years.

Besides, if you are married - your husband is just as out of shape and unkept as you. Not much benefit there. If you aren't marred, well, not many guys are lining up for average looking middle aged women of any type. If the guy isn't ugly and isn't poor, he'll have plenty of younger women to pick from anyway.

If a girl is trying to get by on her looks - she needs to use it while she's got it; marry an older guy who makes a lot of money. By middle age, there isn't much value in maintaining superficial outward appearances. She'd be better off focusing on her career and what not.

Same for men, to be honest.

kfallon · 30-04-2012 7:35pm

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Someone give me an update. Was there any pics of sexy Irish milfs posted?

www.leitrimwives.ie

That'll have to do, Peggy from Manorhamilton is one I'd recommend, wearing nothing but her headscarf

Bit of a hairy growler tho but beggars can't be choosers

Gummy Panda · 30-04-2012 7:39pm

Abi wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Someone give me an update. Was there any pics of sexy Irish milfs posted?

Fraid you're out of luck Panda. This just be 'nother one of them generalisation-have-dig-at-women threads.

Will a belly rub do ya?

A gentleman never refuses a lady's offer

Dudess · 30-04-2012 7:41pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

sorry but
1 , when in all this did i bash anyone - ??? i NEVER did such a thing
2 , i did not offer any constructive criticism , i said it can be a touchy subject and hard to mention - so either my post was read wrong or ignored
3, what spiteful comment did i make ? and any hostility from me was in responce to others pointed towards me ( the 2 main protagonists in this also had a attempt at me in another thread - but i suppose its just coincidence they are the same ones here also )
4 as for all men are bastards comment - its true , but you also get the a women are gee bags brigade also , dont subscribe to this but you delude yourself if you think it does not happen

dudess i have huge respect for your posting style , and enjoy reading your posts but really , if people read my first post , then the subsequent posts is it not fair to say that an over reaction to what is a simple question ??

but im not surprised by who is taking offense to all this ( again not you dudess ) , childish really

I didn't say YOU were responsible for the above, I said that's what this thread was started for - all I said was I can't understand why you feel it's so audacious of Irish women to get defensive in relation to a thread like this, which is not a constructive criticism thread. You will be hard pushed to find "All men are bastards" claims here too, as opposed to the "Irish women are bitches and unattractive" threads.

I'd assume those two posters are just pissed off by your posts implying women are unreasonable and bitter for defending themselves from vitriol. I'm not attacking you but that is how they read.

kfallon · 30-04-2012 7:43pm

Gummy Panda wrote: »

A gentleman never refuses a lady's offer

Unless the lady offers him the opportunity to suck her willy :eek:

:pac:

Kiera · 30-04-2012 7:43pm

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Abi wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Someone give me an update. Was there any pics of sexy Irish milfs posted?

Fraid you're out of luck Panda. This just be 'nother one of them generalisation-have-dig-at-women threads.

Will a belly rub do ya?

A gentleman never refuses a lady's offer

I'll fire up the black mamba so

Gummy Panda · 30-04-2012 7:46pm

Kiera wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Abi wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Someone give me an update. Was there any pics of sexy Irish milfs posted?

Fraid you're out of luck Panda. This just be 'nother one of them generalisation-have-dig-at-women threads.

Will a belly rub do ya?

A gentleman never refuses a lady's offer

I'll fire up the black mamba so

Black mamba too beaucoup

Dudess · 30-04-2012 7:47pm

Robdude wrote: »

What's the point?

If you were a supermodel in your 20s - maybe you'd look decent in your mid 40s. If you were average looking in your 20s? Good luck. There is very little benefit for the amount of time and effort it would take to try and stay pretty. And all it would do is delay the onset of being ugly be a few years.

Lol.

catthinkin · 30-04-2012 8:01pm

Robdude wrote: »

What's the point?

If you were a supermodel in your 20s - maybe you'd look decent in your mid 40s. If you were average looking in your 20s? Good luck. There is very little benefit for the amount of time and effort it would take to try and stay pretty. And all it would do is delay the onset of being ugly be a few years.

Besides, if you are married - your husband is just as out of shape and unkept as you. Not much benefit there. If you aren't marred, well, not many guys are lining up for average looking middle aged women of any type. If the guy isn't ugly and isn't poor, he'll have plenty of younger women to pick from anyway.

If a girl is trying to get by on her looks - she needs to use it while she's got it; marry an older guy who makes a lot of money. By middle age, there isn't much value in maintaining superficial outward appearances. She'd be better off focusing on her career and what not.

Same for men, to be honest.

Marred ??? Such insight such charm could I suggest that there wouldn't be many lining up for you either tbh
Oh and one more thing maybe us ladies like to look nice for ourselves ! No one else just us ha

JupiterKid · 30-04-2012 8:05pm

You know, after being on AH and having read many a thread over the past 7 1/2 years or so, I think you can condense the general sentiments expressed in new threads on AH pretty much down to the following:

Isn't Ireland just pure sh*te and everywhere else is simply amazing?

I'm pretty locked and I shouldn't be posting but sure feck it I will anyway.

Aren't Irish women stuck up tangoed bitches who are two faced and money obsessed?

Aren't Irish men lazy, fat good for nothing ugly trolls who are also uncouth pervs?

All boggers/culchies are muck savages with the manners of a sewerpig.

All townies/Dubs/jackeens are skanger junkies and teenage welfare mums.

Yore Ma

Ireland is the absolute worst country in the world - no, make that the universe

etc. etc. etc.:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

tempura · 30-04-2012 8:19pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

You know, after being on AH and having read many a thread over the past 7 1/2 years or so, I think you can condense the general sentiments expressed in new threads on AH pretty much down to the following:

Isn't Ireland just pure sh*te and everywhere else is simply amazing?

I'm pretty locked and I shouldn't be posting but sure feck it I will anyway.

Aren't Irish women stuck up tangoed bitches who are two faced and money obsessed?

Aren't Irish men lazy, fat good for nothing ugly trolls who are also uncouth pervs?

All boggers/culchies are muck savages with the manners of a sewerpig.

All townies/Dubs/jackeens are skanger junkies and teenage welfare mums.

Yore Ma

Ireland is the absolute worst country in the world - no, make that the universe

etc. etc. etc.:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

You forgot three fiddy !

dj jarvis · 30-04-2012 8:21pm

Dudess wrote: »

I didn't say YOU were responsible for the above, I said that's what this thread was started for - all I said was I can't understand why you feel it's so audacious of Irish women to get defensive in relation to a thread like this, which is not a constructive criticism thread. You will be hard pushed to find "All men are bastards" claims here too, as opposed to the "Irish women are bitches and unattractive" threads.

I'd assume those two posters are just pissed off by your posts implying women are unreasonable and bitter for defending themselves from vitriol. I'm not attacking you but that is how they read.

ok i never said it was a constructive criticism thread or implied that ,
i asked the question did people find Irish women dont take it ( CC ) well ,
in my experience they dont , now obviously i cant speak for all irish women but surely that would have been taken as a granted - how could i know all women , so no offense should have been taken - and if it was then other reasons are at play

and in fairness i NEVER implied any of what you have said dudess , again read my first comment , then read the subsequent ones against me and my post , do you really think the response to what i asked was justified ?? a little over recreation maybe ? as i said a little history here , nothing else

i take offense to being portrayed as a chauvinist when its not deserved in the slightest - if people are SO sensitive about such matters maybe a public forum is not the place for them

funny , i got a 7 day ban once for picking up against some gob****e who was trying to say that women with prams should get out of his way , silly cows bla bla bla , totally a d1ckhead , but as i said before people who have a axe to grind just dont do context or facts , upsets their rants

usual AH sh1te - cherry pick and ignore the rest

The middle aged Irish woman

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