* CAO - a few important points! *

randylonghorn · 02-11-2010 9:36pm #1

It's probably that time of year again, so a few comments on the basic principles underlying the CAO process.

The points system
Points are not set by the colleges, or the CAO. They are based on supply and demand, by the Leaving Cert points of the applicants. If the students applying for a course all score very highly, the points will go up, and vice versa.

Say for example, a course has 20 places. The CAO will run through the list of people who have met the minimum requirements for the course, and offer the course to the top 20 people. The points of the last person to be offered the course are the points that are published as the "cut-off" for the course. If any of those people refuse the offer, the course is then offered to the next person on the list. Whatever points this person is on will become the points published for 2nd round offers, and so on.

CAO
The whole CAO application process works on a basic principle ... that YOU know what you want!

It is important to understand this, and to understand how the system is set up based on that principle.

When the CAO gets round to offering places, you will be offered the first course on your list for which you have enough points, and everything below that on the list vanishes instantly. If you missed a higher ranked option on your list by a few points, and the points drop in a later round, you may well be offered that ... but you will never be offered a lower option on your list, even if the points for it were higher than the course you were offered, and you achieved those points.

The system presumes you knew your own mind when you ranked your choices.

Which is why it is absolutely essential that you rank your CAO choices in the order in which YOU would like to be offered them ... NOT according to what way you think the points might go, not in order of supposed status, not for any other reason except "I really want to do X, that goes down first; if I don't get X, then Y is my next preference ..." and so on.

Or ... as one of your own peers puts it ...

dan_d wrote: »

Golden Rule for the CAO, which most people don't seem to cop...

Put the course you want the most in the top position, regardless of whether or not you think you'll get the points.

Once you are offered a course on your CAO form, you cannot be offered any course in a position lower than this. However, you could be offered a higher up course on your form in subsequent rounds. You won't get it if you don't at least ask!!!!

The CAO itself puts it this way:

CAO Handbook wrote:

Order of Preference:

It is MOST IMPORTANT that you state your course choices in view of genuine preference and/or career plans.

IT IS A MISTAKE to base your choices only on your present expectation of examination performance or the points levels of previous years.

There is no need to fear that a statement of your genuine order of preference will militate against you. If you are not successful in your first choice this will have no effect on your chances of obtaining a place in one of your lower preferences.

So ... why am I basically repeating the same thing three times?! Premature senility?!!

No ... because year after year, this is the thing which trips people up, no matter how often it is said!!

*** Link to CAO Handbook ***

Please *do* put aside an hour at some stage to read through it ... it will repay you as the year goes on. Even if you don't recall every detail, you will have a better idea where to find what you want / check on details.

Link to CAO log-in page ... log into your CAO account here!
.

How the CAO works: (Page 22 of 2012 Handbook)

Offer of highest preference

You will be offered a place in the highest of your course preferences to which you are entitled (if any).

This will be done, independently, in respect of Level 8 and Level 7/Level 6 choices.

You may, therefore, receive two offers at the same time; one for the highest Level 8 preference to which you are entitled and the other for the highest Level 7/Level 6 preference to which you are entitled.

Exclusion from lower preferences

IMPORTANT: When you have been offered a place in one of your course preferences, you are excluded from further consideration for any course which is lower in your order of preference than the one in which you have been offered a place.

This means that while you may subsequently move upwards in your order of preference (if places become available due to withdrawals) you will not be considered for a place in a course which is a lower preference than that already offered.

Later offers for higher preference

If you are being offered a place in a course which is not your first preference, you may subsequently be offered a place in a course of higher preference if such a place becomes available.

This applies whether or not the earlier offer has been accepted. It is NOT necessary to accept an offer in order to be considered for a higher preference if it becomes available later. There is no guarantee, of course, that a higher preference will become available.

Non-acceptance of subsequent offers

Having accepted an offer of a place, you are not obliged to accept a subsequent offer. You may retain the original offer simply by ignoring the subsequent one.

UnholyGregor · 10-01-2012 9:08pm

sorry if this question sounds stupid, but its omething that has been bugging me for a while.
The best was to explain the question is with an example.

Eg: I have medicine as the top 5 choices on my cao form. I don't get the points for medicine on round one, so i accept my 6th choice, say, science at ucd. Will i still be open to receive round 2, 3 and 4 offers from medicine? or will i not be eligible, since i'd have already accepted science at ucd, even though I'd have the points necessary for round 3 or 4 medicine offers?

If this is the case, does that mean that, in order to have the best chance at getting medicine, is to completely blindly disregard all your other offers, in the hope that you will qualify for the round 2,3 and 4 offers from medicine? That sounds incredibly risky. I mean, then if it turns out that you miss out on the round 3 or 4 offers by a few points, youl have no alternatives?

edit: i can see you kind of cover this in your post, but i really need someone to just point it out for me in black and white... to put my mind at rest if nothing else...

Thanks!

randylonghorn · 10-01-2012 10:28pm

UnholyGregor wrote: »

Eg: I have medicine as the top 5 choices on my cao form. I don't get the points for medicine on round one, so i accept my 6th choice, say, science at ucd. Will i still be open to receive round 2, 3 and 4 offers from medicine? or will i not be eligible, since i'd have already accepted science at ucd, even though I'd have the points necessary for round 3 or 4 medicine offers?

Yes, you can still be offered a place in medicine in subsequent rounds *if* you qualify for one. Whether you have already accepted an offer in Round 1 or not has no bearing on this.

This is the relevant bit:

Later offers for higher preference

If you are being offered a place in a course which is not your first preference, you may subsequently be offered a place in a course of higher preference if such a place becomes available.

This applies whether or not the earlier offer has been accepted. It is NOT necessary to accept an offer in order to be considered for a higher preference if it becomes available later. There is no guarantee, of course, that a higher preference will become available.

UnholyGregor wrote: »

If this is the case, does that mean that, in order to have the best chance at getting medicine, is to completely blindly disregard all your other offers, in the hope that you will qualify for the round 2,3 and 4 offers from medicine? That sounds incredibly risky. I mean, then if it turns out that you miss out on the round 3 or 4 offers by a few points, youl have no alternatives?

No, no, no and no!

Whether you accept your round 1 offer or not has no bearing on any possible offers in subsequent rounds. The only thing that has a bearing is whether places open up / the points drop sufficiently for you to qualify for an offer. If you're entitled to an offer, it will be made.

UnholyGregor · 11-01-2012 12:11am

Phew! thank jesus for that, was sort of secretely freaking out about that one... thanks for the fast, and eejit-friendly reply. Nice to have some piece of mind.....

cloud493 · 30-01-2012 6:59pm

If I don't fill out the CAO by wednesday or thursday or whatever, will I still be able to fill it out later, it'll just cost more?

QueenOfLeon · 30-01-2012 7:50pm

These are the closing dates for the applications, taken from the CAO website:

Normal Application(online or paper) €40 1 Feb 2012 (17:15)
Online Discounted Rate €30 20 Jan 2012 (17:15)
Late online application €60 1 May 2012 (17:15)
Late paper application €80 1 May 2012 (17:15)
Change of Mind Nil 1 July 2012 (17:15)

Its much handier (and cheaper) to get it over and done with soon though! You don't even have to know what courses you want to do, just get the application in and you can think about it right up until July

Restricted courses (they are marked on the handbook as restricted, usually something that needs an interview, exam or portfolio aside from the LC) MUST be on the form by this Wednesday (Feb 1st).

Pacifist Pigeon · 31-01-2012 10:15pm

Hey, I already posted a thread in this forum about this but I need an answer ASAP:

I'm in college ATM. If I decided to re-apply to the CAO now (while not dropping out of college) but decided I didn't want to accept any offers when the offers come out, would I be allowed to continue on with my present course?

Thanks in advance.

randylonghorn · 01-02-2012 12:02am

Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »

Hey, I already posted a thread in this forum about this but I need an answer ASAP:

I'm in college ATM. If I decided to re-apply to the CAO now (while not dropping out of college) but decided I didn't want to accept any offers when the offers come out, would I be allowed to continue on with my present course?

Thanks in advance.

I can't think of any reason why not, unless you've formally withdrawn from your current course.

CAO is an admissions mechanism; once you're in college and on a course, I don't see how an application to the CAO would cancel your place on your current course.

I presume you know though that if you have a second go at first year you will end up paying full fees for that year?

Pacifist Pigeon · 01-02-2012 12:22am

randylonghorn wrote: »

I can't think of any reason why not, unless you've formally withdrawn from your current course.

CAO is an admissions mechanism; once you're in college and on a course, I don't see how an application to the CAO would cancel your place on your current course.

I presume you know though that if you have a second go at first year you will end up paying full fees for that year?

I know that yes. I'm was just a little worried that applying to the CAO again would effect the course I'm on.

TBH, I'm just applying to the CAO again as a contingency plan in case I do badly this year at college (I'm in 3rd year and if I do badly this year I won't be able to do 4th year and I'll only come out with a level 7).

randylonghorn · 01-02-2012 12:28am

And you'd start all over? 0_o

Unless there's something totally different from what you're doing that you want to start all over at ... e.g. History when you've been studying Science ... would it not make more sense to look at possible transfers to other Level 8 "top-up" years in associated areas? Or even apply to transfer to another Level 7 third year / Ordinary Degree Year in a related area, at least it would only mean doubling up on one year?

Or see if you could get work / an internship for a year or two in a relevant area, and re-apply for the 4th year then? Many colleges will look favorably on relevant experience when vetting applications like this.

Or ... put the nose to the grindstone and make sure this year goes well?

Pacifist Pigeon · 01-02-2012 2:33pm

randylonghorn wrote: »

And you'd start all over? 0_o

Unless there's something totally different from what you're doing that you want to start all over at ... e.g. History when you've been studying Science ... would it not make more sense to look at possible transfers to other Level 8 "top-up" years in associated areas? Or even apply to transfer to another Level 7 third year / Ordinary Degree Year in a related area, at least it would only mean doubling up on one year?

Or see if you could get work / an internship for a year or two in a relevant area, and re-apply for the 4th year then? Many colleges will look favorably on relevant experience when vetting applications like this.

Or ... put the nose to the grindstone and make sure this year goes well?

Oh, my decision to re-applying to the CAO is just contingency plan, just in case my finals turn into an unmitigated disaster - obviously, I'm trying to avoid that.

Furze · 03-02-2012 7:05pm

Daughter (knows everything) registered on CAO online, paid etc.
Now she is an utter panic :mad: as she did not enter any course choice - nado, nothing, zilch.

Will she be permitted to add a course to a blank list on the 6/2/2012 ?

Thanks in advance.

QueenOfLeon · 03-02-2012 9:16pm

Furze wrote: »

Daughter (knows everything) registered on CAO online, paid etc.
Now she is an utter panic :mad: as she did not enter any course choice - nado, nothing, zilch.

Will she be permitted to add a course to a blank list on the 6/2/2012 ?

Thanks in advance.

She'll be able to add courses when the CAO reopens again (5th of May as far as I know, where did you find the 6th of Feb?). However, she won't be able to add restricted courses, which are usually ones associated with portfolios, entrance exams or interviews (eg medicine, drama).

cocoshovel · 06-02-2012 10:59pm

Wait, they're charging €10 now to add or change your courses? What thieving filth is this? I dont remember it being like this last year. Im angry now.

QueenOfLeon · 06-02-2012 11:02pm

cocoshovel wrote: »

Wait, they're charging €10 now to add or change your courses? What thieving filth is this? I dont remember it being like this last year. Im angry now.

The change of mind up til July is still free, but that doesn't open for another while.

cocoshovel · 06-02-2012 11:18pm

QueenOfLeon wrote: »

The change of mind up til July is still free, but that doesn't open for another while.

So I can add more courses as I please for free then? When does it open? The charge they have implemented right now is very misleading.

randylonghorn · 06-02-2012 11:26pm

5th May

See the Handbook, p. 26

Page 14 gives details of very restricted classes of applicants who *should* amend NOW if they have made an error; otherwise the advice is:

If you are not in the categories mentioned above, you do not need to correct any course errors at this stage. You may use the Change of Mind facility (see Page 17) to make any course changes (except the introduction of Restricted-Application Courses or mature applicant course codes for nursing/midwifery, see Page 4) before 1st July and at no charge.

They haven't changed anything, coco, it's the exact same system as last year.

Advice to everyone: Have a good browse through the CAO handbook, folks. You may not remember everything, but you will probably at least remember seeing the answer there when the question pops into your head, and will be able to find the answer a lot more quickly, thus saving yourself stress and worry.

kate.m · 10-03-2012 3:20pm

I just have two quick questions I hope someone can answer...

Firstly, I'm applying to the CAO again. I applied and filled the form out online in december. But I'm using last years LC points (2011) So all I have to fill in under the heading *Leaving Cert Examinations* was the year I did it and my former exam number? I don't have to send my results to them or anything?

Secondly, under the section where they ask about Third Level education, do I just give the name/title of the course, my year, and the college name? It asks for exam results but I have no relevant ones. It gives a max. word count and I'm wondering what else I'm supposed to add...

I'm applying for restricted courses but I had them down when I first filled it in in December.

Help appreciated! Thanks

QueenOfLeon · 10-03-2012 3:24pm

kate.m wrote: »

I just have two quick questions I hope someone can answer...

Firstly, I'm applying to the CAO again. I applied and filled the form out online in december. But I'm using last years LC points (2011) So all I have to fill in under the heading *Leaving Cert Examinations* was the year I did it and my former exam number? I don't have to send my results to them or anything?

Yup, that's all. They'll retrieve your results for you, and I think at some stage when they send out the paper confirmation of the courses you've chosen they'll also have all your exam results on it from last year.

kate.m wrote: »

Secondly, under the section where they ask about Third Level education, do I just give the name/title of the course, my year, and the college name? It asks for exam results but I have no relevant ones. It gives a max. word count and I'm wondering what else I'm supposed to add...

I can only imagine that's all you'd have to do. If there's a little box to write in you could just put in that you're only in first year of the course so you haven't had any exam results so far. I'm not sure though, you could always give the CAO a ring and ask them!

kate.m · 10-03-2012 3:38pm

QueenOfLeon wrote: »

Yup, that's all. They'll retrieve your results for you, and I think at some stage when they send out the paper confirmation of the courses you've chosen they'll also have all your exam results on it from last year.

I can only imagine that's all you'd have to do. If there's a little box to write in you could just put in that you're only in first year of the course so you haven't had any exam results so far. I'm not sure though, you could always give the CAO a ring and ask them!

Thank you

I'd been told that about the LC points but I just wanted to confirm. I hope there isn't a mistake with the exam results now...

I'll send them an e-mail on Monday morning just to ask. Thanks again!

UnholyGregor · 25-04-2012 2:45pm

Hmm for some reason I can see an option to change my choices on the cao, is that optiopn temporarily locked? Or am i just to retarded to find it? Thanks

Bears and Vodka · 25-04-2012 7:11pm

UnholyGregor wrote: »

Hmm for some reason I can see an option to change my choices on the cao, is that optiopn temporarily locked? Or am i just to retarded to find it? Thanks

Change of Mind option opens on 5th May according to the CAO Handbook.

me m · 01-05-2012 3:49pm

Hmm im thinking of applying to cao before 17.15 today. I dont really know what course just thinking of getting an application in and using change of mind then to pick. If i get an offer in August I will decide then if i will go.

Just wondering can anyone clarify these points:

Im not going down the mature applicant route but will be using my points from previous leaving cert, 2005 ? this is fine as far as i can gather.

Secondly I have attended colleges before but didnt complete course. but only went through cao system once. It says something about posting them documents in 7 days in handbook. I have no documents kept as it was few years ago now. Prob take the college as long to get them to me thats if they have a record kept at all at this stage.

On the online form it wants 60 euro before i go to page 2. I would like to keep college open as an option come september but dont want to pay that money and hit a snag on page 2 because they say its non refundable. I think im ok to procede..anyone know for sure?

BellaVerita · 24-05-2012 6:02pm

I've a question about subsequent offers.

Say I got offered my 4th course on the list and I accepted it, in the second round offers, can I only be possibly offered my 3rd choice?(Because it was above the 4th choice.)
Or is it possible that I could be offered any of my 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice?

randylonghorn · 24-05-2012 7:47pm

BellaVerita wrote: »

I've a question about subsequent offers.

Say I got offered my 4th course on the list and I accepted it, in the second round offers, can I only be possibly offered my 3rd choice?(Because it was above the 4th choice.)
Or is it possible that I could be offered any of my 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice?

You will be offered the highest of your choices which becomes available in the second round (*if* any higher choice does).

So yes, theoretically you could be offered (the highest available of) your 3rd or 2nd or 1st choice.

However, there is a real chance that no higher choice will become available in the second round, especially these days with fewer people deferring, etc., which is why it is usually wise to accept what you get offered in the first round IF it still interests you / you want it (assuming nothing higher up your list and which you want MORE becomes available in later rounds).

That said, if you are entitled to an offer in the second round you will be offered it regardless of whether you have accepted your first round offer or not.

galwaymusic · 24-05-2012 10:59pm

But if you accepted an offer in the first round, why would you be offered again in the second round? That doesn't make sense?

randylonghorn · 24-05-2012 11:05pm

galwaymusic wrote: »

But if you accepted an offer in the first round, why would you be offered again in the second round? That doesn't make sense?

It does.

If you become entitled to a *higher* offer, i.e. one further up your list of preferences, you will be offered it in the second round on the basis that you are likely to prefer that one.

Read the first post in this thread again (and your CAO handbook!).

Finno59 · 28-05-2012 5:02pm

Is there a way to remove a level 8 course from your preferences or once you put it in are you stuck with it?
I have 1 lvl 8 and 2 lvl 7s down and i only want the lvl 7's. My teacher said there is a way to do it but i cant figure out how. She also said if you get offered your lvl 8 you are not guaranteed to get offered the lvl 7.

QueenOfLeon · 28-05-2012 7:07pm

Finno59 wrote: »

Is there a way to remove a level 8 course from your preferences or once you put it in are you stuck with it?
I have 1 lvl 8 and 2 lvl 7s down and i only want the lvl 7's. My teacher said there is a way to do it but i cant figure out how. She also said if you get offered your lvl 8 you are not guaranteed to get offered the lvl 7.

Firstly, just a quick reminder that text speak is not allowed on boards!

You can remove and add courses as you like until the closing date. If you log onto your CAO form on www.cao.ie, you should have the option of editing your list of courses, and then you can remove your level 8 course.

However, when the offers come out, you will be offered one level 8 AND one level 7 (provided you have reached the necessary requirements for them) and then you choose which one you want. Having level 8s down will not affect your level 7 offers in any way.

Lago · 05-06-2012 7:36pm

So I'm wondering from reading this thread, should I put the courses I know I want at the top in order and then when I get to the ones I don't know how to order, should I put the ones with the lower points at the bottom and work up?

QueenOfLeon · 05-06-2012 7:40pm

Lago wrote: »

So I'm wondering from reading this thread, should I put the courses I know I want at the top in order and then when I get to the ones I don't know how to order, should I put the ones with the lower points at the bottom and work up?

Every course must be put down in order of preference. If you can't figure out which course you prefer between 2, go to the prospectus and see if there are any minor differences between them, or see if you can decide which college you'd prefer to go to.

*** CAO - a few important points! ***

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* CAO - a few important points! *