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thyroid misery

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  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    Theresa66 wrote: »
    I forgot to say that I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis about twenty years ago, when I lived in the US. They told me I had antibodies and explained what that meant. They explained that they could tell that my thyroid was actually working because it was producing hormones, the problem was they were being attacked by my immune system! That was a big surprise to me after 20 years on thyroxine, and thinking my thyroid gland didn't work, and all the while having my blood levels monitored regularly by James's endocrinology dept!

    So I was able to tell them in James's what was wrong with me when I moved back to Ireland, rather than the other way round!

    Some might say what difference does it make at the end of the day if the treatment is the same for hashimoto's as for a non-functioning or non-existent thyroid gland, and if the end result of treatment is the same = normal thyroid levels?

    I think it makes a world of difference because the immune system comes into play in a big way with hashimotos, and there are lots of things that can be done to help the immune system and prevent inflammation, through diet, supplements, exercise, etc. All this can help.

    Also, hormones have a knock-on effect on other body systems. Why isn't this addressed?

    What I don't understand is why the endos don't sit down and take a thorough case history of each patient, taking into account

    1. hormone levels: oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone, insulin, adrenals (these are all affected by the thyroid and can have a huge effect on fertility, well-being, etc.)
    2. allergies: gluten, dairy (because the proteins in gluten and casein are very similar to those in thyroid hormones and if the body produces antibodies to gluten and/or casein, these antibodies can then mistakenly attack the body - so if the allergen is eliminated the attack might be eliminated)
    3. dietary deficiencies such as iron, b vitamins, selenium, copper, zinc (all needed for healthy thyroid functioning)
    4. family history (leaning towards graves, hashis, non-Hodgkins lymphoma etc - my mother has autoimmune myelitis and my aunt has non-Hodgkins lymphoma - there is a gene that predisposes people to autoimmune disease) - not in the interests of a cure necessarily but in the interests of science, and also it is known that one autoimmune disease can lead to another - they need to explore this link.
    5. mental state - is the patient anxious, depressed - and explain that this can be related to hormone disruption, and test for neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine, gaba, etc. and compensate accordingly. Apparently the growth hormone is closely related to the production of the neurotransmitter responsible for the feel-good Gaba levels.

    No, they test your T4, your TSH, tell you you're normal and off you go. Not only that, the medicine they give you has only one of the 4 thyroid hormones (the natural dessicated thyroid from pig's glands has T4, T3, T2, T1). They tell you that's alright because T4 is converted into T3 by the body (but there is evidence that some people have great difficult with this conversion). They don't bother to tell you selenium helps a great deal with this. And they don't really know what T2 and T1 do, so better not to have them. Although I'm sure there's a reason why pigs have them.

    It just makes me so angry.

    @Theresa66

    you mention"
    "What I don't understand is why the Rndos don't sit down and take a thorough case history of each patient, taking into account "
    Many of them never open a book after taking their respective jobs , they do not read new Published articles,and follow progress,

    So their methods are primitive,

    Once I mentioned something to a doc , he said how do you know this , I said the internet , his reply one should not trust the web,

    my response it was a Published medical article ,proven by crossed methodology by several research labs.

    he went quiet,,

    I asked him what the last published medical article he read was about, regarding the thyroid

    you could hear a pin drop he looked embarrassed.

    This guy has been a Doc for over 40 years....

    They should have mandatory periodic refresher courses, tests.

    I have such tests and I only work on Mission critical systems, (they are not humans.)

    ##
    your are correct ,not to change medication until you have the results from Tallaght,

    I would not recommend Armour unless you have a regular thyroid panel done , and are under the eye of a good endo.

    FT3 FT4 and the antibody tests need to be done,so see where you are today,
    knowing you have hashimotos , makes a big difference ,


    A good idea to have the minerals and especially vit b12 and vit d tested too.
    These need to be in place for effective treatment,

    good idea to read from Chris


    http://chriskresser.com/selenium-the-missing-link-for-treating-hypothyroidism

    see point 10

    Additionally, supplementing selenium in the context of low iodine status may actually aggravate hypothyroidism. Mario Renato Iwakura discusses this particular topic extensively on Paul Jaminet’s Perfect Health Diet blog.

    side note
    chris mentioned previously iodine is like putting gasoline on fire , but has now changed his opinion, and agrees it needs to be stepped up with selenium..

    http://chriskresser.com/the-gluten-thyroid-connection
    the gluten connection I mentioned in a previous post all related to Dwarf wheat,highlighted by Dr Davis.

    my prev post
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79337275

    And an excellent article on supplements by chris


    http://chriskresser.com/9-steps-to-perfect-health-4-supplement-wisely


    goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Theresa66


    Thanks Chessguy, I had a look at those links, very useful info. It shouldn't have to be this way, patients having to diagnose themselves. It's unbelievable that doctors don't have to be tested for knowing up to date medical advances. The other thing is they don't talk to each other enough - the endos need to get together with the nutritionists and psychiatrists and neurologists to join the dots. I think vets are much better as they're more all-rounders and can see the big picture. Maybe I should go to a vet. Mind you, my dog eats a lot healthier than I do, mostly meat and veg leftovers, water, and a very occasional bit of a biscuit. I should probably try that for a while.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 marymarcy


    Hi

    Got B12 result, 554 and Folate 5.6. Should I still be supplementing at those levels? My Vitamin D is still rising with supplementation, 76 in recent test.

    I need some help understanding the antibodies test. I have been told by some of ye on this thread to have tpoab, tgab and trab done.
    All I see under the Antibodies headings on tests I've had are

    January 2010
    Anti Tissue Transglutaminase AB, which seems fine - 0.3, less than 1.9 being negative

    Anti Nuclear Ab (IgC): Positive (weak) Homogeneous ANA pattern, Nucleolar ANA pattern

    Anti Mitochondrial Ab, Anti Smooth Muscle Ab, Anti Liver/Kidney Microsom Ab, Anti Parietal Cell Ab, Anti Thyroid Microsomal Ab, all negative

    Anti Thyroglobulin Ab: Positive (titre 1:1000)

    Jan and April 2011
    Anti Tissue Transglutaminase wasn't done, all the others are negative except Anti Nuclear Ab (IgC) which is positive plus 1 Homogeneous ANA pattern, and with tests last week the Anti Nuclear is positive plus 1 again.

    Are these the tests i needed?

    Thanks!


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Hi

    Got B12 result, 554 and Folate 5.6. Should I still be supplementing at those levels? My Vitamin D is still rising with supplementation, 76 in recent test.

    I need some help understanding the antibodies test. I have been told by some of ye on this thread to have tpoab, tgab and trab done.
    All I see under the Antibodies headings on tests I've had are

    January 2010
    Anti Tissue Transglutaminase AB, which seems fine - 0.3, less than 1.9 being negative

    Anti Nuclear Ab (IgC): Positive (weak) Homogeneous ANA pattern, Nucleolar ANA pattern

    Anti Mitochondrial Ab, Anti Smooth Muscle Ab, Anti Liver/Kidney Microsom Ab, Anti Parietal Cell Ab, Anti Thyroid Microsomal Ab, all negative

    Anti Thyroglobulin Ab: Positive (titre 1:1000)

    Jan and April 2011
    Anti Tissue Transglutaminase wasn't done, all the others are negative except Anti Nuclear Ab (IgC) which is positive plus 1 Homogeneous ANA pattern, and with tests last week the Anti Nuclear is positive plus 1 again.

    Are these the tests i needed?

    Thanks!


    @marymarcy

    hope you find this useful,




    Normal vitamin B-12 levels are 200 to 900 pg/mL. yours is 554

    The normal range for folate is 2.7 to 17.0 ng/m yours 5.6

    so looks like they both still need a little more work,,

    you mention vit D is 76 you do not mention the lab range or what 76 actually is it could be nmol/L or ng/L diff types of measurement..


    hmmm .....Lets have a look...

    50 ng/mL (125 nmol/L) this is the desired range quoted by the Vit D council


    so YOUR 76 if it is >> nmol/L could actually be 30.4 ng/ml

    So looks like vit D needs more work too


    To convert nmol/L to ng/L divide by factor of 2.5.

    In Ireland it appears many labs seem to use nmol /L for this.


    =======================
    Did they say what they suspect or are looking for ?

    Anti Tissue Transglutaminase AB often done in part to determine to coeliac disease auto immune diseases etc.

    Other test in part to check for

    systemic

    lupus erythematosus, Sjögren's syndrome and rheumatoid arthritis .Amongst >> many others.



    But these sets of test above can outline a picture for other things too,


    what are they actually looking for in relation to these tests ??

    These tests should be interpreted by the endo who has requested them , as only he knows the context they are to be viewed in,

    (so basically only he knows what he is ruling in or out and appears to be doing that by various tests)
    Has he /she mentioned what they are actully ruling out /in.

    Good idea to ask the Endo. ..

    Regarding the

    Anti Thyroglobulin Ab test

    A positive test means antithyroglobulin antibodies are found in your blood. This may be due to:

    indicates thyroid issue , Hashimotos issues too. Amongst other things..


    recall from prev post ;
    Reckon you had the following checked T3, FT3 and t4, FT4, TSh as you are seeing an endo
    cortisol.


    tpoab
    tgab
    TRAb

    do they know what kind of hypothyroidism you have ??
    hashiomotos or T4 t3 conversion issue , or receptor uptake issue.??

    Looks like the Endo is working systamatically to rule in / out , things , I reckon it may be a good idea to talk with him/her,to see where this is going..

    of now now Spain calls,

    Goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭treecreeper


    three types of hypothryoidism!!!! i didnt KNOW that!
    twin and i both with hypothryoidism and feel ghastly all the time.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    three types of hypothryoidism!!!! i didnt KNOW that!
    twin and i both with hypothyroidism and feel ghastly all the time.

    @treekeeper, above hashimotos was type of hypothyroidism the other 2 were some of the causes of hypothyroidism,#


    below types of hypothyroidism,
    worth reading



    http://www.progressivehealth.com/hypothyroidism-types.asp


    last post

    before holidays

    goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭dubbo


    Hi all,looking for a little more advice! I'm getting bloods done at the end of the week and have to fast for them(checking me for diabetes and Addisons as well as monitoring my underactive thyroid).my question is should I take my levothyroxine the morning of bloods as usual or will that mess up my results? Thanks,hope everyone is well:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    This thread has gone very quiet, everyone must be feeling great!

    Dubbo, don't take your thyroid meds until after your blood test, it would distort your results.


  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭dubbo


    Just back from consultant,my tsh has gone from 9 to 7,so they're increasing my dose from 25 everyday,to 25 one day and 50 the other. Feeling so much better,thanks again to everyone on here who encouraged me to ignore my gp and go to an endocrinologist! Only thing is my antibodies are negative,which means it isn't auto immune which I don't really understand but feeling so much better regardless :)thanks again hope everyone is well:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭RubyGirl


    dubbo wrote: »
    Just back from consultant,my tsh has gone from 9 to 7,so they're increasing my dose from 25 everyday,to 25 one day and 50 the other. Feeling so much better,thanks again to everyone on here who encouraged me to ignore my gp and go to an endocrinologist! Only thing is my antibodies are negative,which means it isn't auto immune which I don't really understand but feeling so much better regardless :)thanks again hope everyone is well:)

    Did you not have to go thru the doctor to see an endocrinologist? Great to hear your feeling better.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭dubbo


    I did yeah but she wasn't supportive and thought I was a hypochondriac, I think she basically wrote the letter to get rid of me,but I got treatment in the end so happy out :)


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,043 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    So I'm away from home for a couple of days, just opened my bag to find my pills to pop for this morning and realised I forgot them. Luckily the insulin pump being attached to me makes it hard to forget and I can cope with a bit of hay fever from forgetting my anti histamines.

    I've not been on the levothyroxine long enough to have forgotten doses before though. Is this likely to make me feel rubbish later today, or will it be a couple of days? I expect there is no exact answer that applies to all but wondering if staying away from my supplies for two days is a good idea.

    It's a bank holiday weekend over here so not sure I can get spare drugs from a helpful pharmacy so I might be better off going back home early this evening so that I only miss the one day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    I don't think missing 2 days will make a huge difference unless your TSH is very high. Just make sure to get straight back on them when you come back. There's always a 24 hour pharmacy to try but they may not give them to you without prescription


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭Staplor


    Could someone PM me the name of any pharmacists stocking Armour? My GP has decided to prescribe it, just looking for a stockist now. I'm living in Maynooth, anywhere around Dublin? I also head to Limerick a bit too so anywhere along the N7 would work too.

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭cltt97


    I am not aware of any pharmacy actually stocking it, as it is unlicensed. They will order it in for you though. I have ordered it in in two different pharmacies (one was a Boots and the other was a Carrolls) without any problem. They can usually source it reasonably quickly, too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭ima_goldfish!


    Hi all,
    basically I just went to my gp about 3 months ago because i was constantly tired feinted once or twice and felt sick all the time.Stomach cramps and nausea
    constantly. The nurse took my bloods and the gp said I had a slightly underactive thyroid, which I wasnt surprised about to be honest with the tiredness etc. He said as it was only slightly underactive to leave it alone for awhile and see if it stabilizes itself....seemed like odd advice, but I carried on anyway. Its not been 3 months and Ive heard nothing about getting more bloods done? Should I just go in myself? I think its gotten worse and Im quite scared ive read some horrific stories and I just feel defeated already. Im only 19 due to start a new college course next week,,,I just want to feel normal again. It seems Im dying with my stomach all the time and wrecked tired always,im in terrible form the whole time and its not me. I was diagnosed with depression when i was 17 and my gp stuck me on anti depressants which i now think was actually down to my thyroid. I went through hell to get off them yokes and recently read that they can actually cause thyroid underactivity. I dont even know if I should bother with my gp anymore if thats the case? I dont know lads any bit of advice is appreciated cant go to college and start a new life feeling this s**t all the time. Ill never be able to cope
    sorry for the long post


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭Staplor


    Get another test done if you still have symptoms. Compare to your last test. Get medication. Feel better. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭ima_goldfish!


    Is a feeling of intense hunger a symptom? As in you feel weak as a kitten and your stomach aches as if you have not eaten for days? So hungry you feel sick but even when you eat the feeling doesnt go? Just wondering if this could be down to thyroid too?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭Staplor


    Pretty much everything is a symptom

    http://stopthethyroidmadness.com/long-and-pathetic/


  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭dubbo


    Is a feeling of intense hunger a symptom? As in you feel weak as a kitten and your stomach aches as if you have not eaten for days? So hungry you feel sick but even when you eat the feeling doesnt go? Just wondering if this could be down to thyroid too?

    You poor thing,your experience sounds very similar to mine,my thyroid was slightly underactive from the age of 17 and my gp wanted to wait and see. I really started feeling even worse this year after Xmas,I'm 26 now,and again my gp wouldn't do anything even thought I was exhausted,depressed,put on weight and was freezing all the time. Eventually I insisted on a referal to an endocrinologist who put me straight on tablets,and I feel amazing now! So please don't give up,ask for more bloods and if your gp isn't helping ask for a ref to an endocrinologist. You shouldn't have to feel this way. Best of luck with your new college course too :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭ima_goldfish!


    Im sorry to be negative but this is all slightly terrifying...lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭ima_goldfish!


    Also thanks for the replies and also that link to the stop the thyroid madness site, it seems really good


  • Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    I have to have tests done for Hypo Thyroidism.

    My main problem with it, is Constant hunger. any one else suffer from this constant hunger.

    I find i have to supplement what i eat with a drink called ensure .
    Was out for dinner on sat, and I ate soup, large steak, with veg and a plate of pasta, three slices of pizza, and two slices of crostini. Soon as I left the restaurant I was starving again. Weird thing is, the more I eat, it seems the hungrier i get.

    its horrible. Im hoping if they put me on medication the hunger will stop.
    Has anyone else had this constant hunger form Hyper thyroidism?


  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭ima_goldfish!


    Preaching to the choir! Yeah I think its a common thing


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Mysterylady


    I was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid about 4 years ago and have been on Eltroxin ever since, the level of eltroxin varies depending on my blood results which I get done regularly. I have also been on the contraceptive pill for approximately the same length of time on and off. I used to take my eltroxin in the morning and my pill in the evening. This month I decided to try and take both tablets in the morning to make life easier for myself but now I'm getting breakthrough bleeding and I'm wondering if it is because I am taking the tablets at the same time. It sounds logical to me that as they are both hormone based my body probably can't handle the two at the same time and isn't able to absorb the two properly, hence the bleeding but I'm not a doctor. Anyone got any words of wisdom on this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    I am on the yasmin and eltroxin, I take the two in the morning together and have been doing this for over a year now. During this time I have never had breakthrough bleeding, and tbh it actually never occurred to me to take them at different time :o I am however knackered all the time :(

    Op you have two options, either change your pill back to the evening and see if the bleeding continues, or go back to the doctor and ask if the bleeding is down to you taking the two together...It could also be that you may need a combined pill if your not on one as the mini one can cause breakthrough bleeding


    ***
    OP I tell a lie, now I remember I was on a mini pill (cant remember the name of it) when I was breastfeeding, and continued to be on this one well after breastfeeding, I was then diagnosed with an under active thyroid after I stopped breast feeding and put on eltroxin and after a while I did have bleeding so went back to doctor and was eventually put on yasmin


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Mysterylady


    Thanks for your reply. I am on a combined pill and although I have had breakthrough bleeding before it usually symptomed as my period starting early if you know what I mean as opposed to now which is in the middle of my cycle. I was thinking it was maybe because I wasn't taking my pill at exactly the same time everyday, varies slightly at the weekend, but this has never been an issue before and according to the pill packet as long as I take it within 12 hours it shouldn't be an issue. I might do some further digging on the effects one tablet has on another and maybe change back to the evening taking of the pill and see if it has any effect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭RubyGirl


    I was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid about 4 years ago and have been on Eltroxin ever since, the level of eltroxin varies depending on my blood results which I get done regularly. I have also been on the contraceptive pill for approximately the same length of time on and off. I used to take my eltroxin in the morning and my pill in the evening. This month I decided to try and take both tablets in the morning to make life easier for myself but now I'm getting breakthrough bleeding and I'm wondering if it is because I am taking the tablets at the same time. It sounds logical to me that as they are both hormone based my body probably can't handle the two at the same time and isn't able to absorb the two properly, hence the bleeding but I'm not a doctor. Anyone got any words of wisdom on this?

    Having the same problem and I'm on yasmin aswell. I take both pill's in the evening. Hoping to get an appointment with the doctor in the morning so I'll ask. Bet she'll say to take one in the morning and the other in the evening?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 marymarcy


    I was diagnosed hypothyroid 3 years ago, but may have had concurrent post viral fatigue. On varying levels of eltroxin since then, but still felt horrendous, very fatigued and ill. Amongst other alternative therapies, I decided to come off the pill, Yasmin, back in June ( I had been on it for 6 years). I dont know what has worked but I feel great now, have even been able to reduce eltroxin dosage. I have read that taking the pill can inhibit eltroxin absorption, however GPs don't seem to agree. I don't know but just said i'd throw in my tuppence worth in case it helps! I never had issues with breakthrough bleeding so can't help there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭frenchmartini


    the thyroid peroxidase AB level came back this morning as 10.
    my doctor said 'no further action, normal range."

    i am very upset. i was hoping that this test would provide clues to my chronic symptoms.

    no-one is listening, i cannot continue for the rest of my life feeling like this.


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