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Premium rate text - 57052

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    dudara wrote: »
    However, we do not publish the home addresses and personal details of ANY individual on Boards.
    And I agree with that.
    At risk of sounding like I'm repeating myself, I asked why their names can't be published. I can appreciate that publishing addresses and DOBs is a bit much, as it could give rise to a 'real life' witch hunt, as opposed an internet based one. I appreciate boards.ie doesn't want to sow seeds of this sort it; it just seems like a bit much in this case.
    I only ask as I would have thought like yourself - that this (names) would be fair game.
    Perhaps an admin could clarify?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,905 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    Mum's been hit with this lot. Don't know how they got her number as she didnt sign up for anything. No one answers the phone at inkred. Got their email and asked how they got her number. Missed the call this morning, first they said they got message to call her and didnt iknow what it was about yet all my emails were replys and all corrispondance would be in the email and they said they would write to her with the details. When she asked them if she would get her credit back they just said she would have to reply to the letter. Called comreg, they said inkred have 10 working days to get letter to her. They gave a ref and any issues call back.
    Mum only remembers texts from vodafone and o2. more of them and come through but no credit removed so they are ok.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    jor el wrote: »
    Why? OP didn't read the terms of what they were entering, and signed up to a subscription service. How does one's own laziness translate to the operator being sneaky feckers?

    I'm no fan of these premium services, but if you can't be bothered to read what you're subscribing to, then it's tough titty.
    These subscription services are anything but innocent, they are cunning thieves that will go to any lengths to con people and play on their ignorance to try and get away with it.

    Last year I successfully claimed back €9 from Cuddly TV after I brought the matter up with Comreg. The company deliberately placed a push button add very close to the send button on a subsidized communications app on my IPhone. I forwarded a text message and mistakenly activated their services. It wasn't until I got a bill from 02 that I noticed that the amount of €9 was charged. I was refunded the full amount, there are many out there that would let this slip and let these thieving scum get away with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,905 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    Mum doesnt have internet on phone just a big button OAP phone. She does facebook, pigsback, gsk media serveys and buys stuff from amazon thats all. She has not signed up for anything that required her number. She knows not to as she was hit a few years back for entering an RTE quide competition. Woman from InkRed was very evasive when questioned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,905 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    Update - Got letter from Inkred and they say my mum entered a comp on their website on the 25th april, a text was sent to mobile with pin and pin was entered on website. This is complete and utter b****x! She never went to site, never got a pin and never entered a pin into any site. Called comreg with update. Have emailed letter, emails to and from them and email from pigsback. lets see will contact o2 to see o2 to see if text was sent to her on the 25th after 9pm. Lying ........ grrrrr


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ Howard Elegant Maple


    Could be as simple as someone entering an incorrect phone number. :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,905 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    No way. She is adament nothing like this happened. no text with pin etc. She rarely uses the phone and only to phone my brother. I have to do the texting for her.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Hopi watcher


    This abuse and exploitation could be very easily stopped. All that ComReg has to do is bar the use of the "reverse billing" facility for all "fun" items. In addition those other items to be allowed use that facility, such as news alerts, weather forecasts, travel updates etc, must be registered and licenced to do so. Any abuse should be a criminal offence. Can anyone out there offer an explanation as to why this cannot be done? After the Mahon report surely we are all sick to the back teeth with corruption of all sorts and we want it stopped. Let's have it ComReg, why are you lot sitting on your hands?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭doleman2010


    Too many people making very easy money out of this so called industry, the comreg call centre is just an assimilation of the old regtel crowd , who were industry set up and funded anyway.
    Mobile networks dont give a dam as they are making the most from the scams .
    I took on these shower of scum a year ago when they robbed a DECEASED family members phone acc. It took me a year but I persisted and I got the money back from O2 and a written apology from the CEO .
    But along the way they were quite happy to provide totally false opt in logs and to lie to comreg and regtel , both of whom sided with O2 on the matter until their lies fell apart .
    There are some very arrogant and nasty people working in that side of the business .


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,905 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    I phoned o2 the other day and they say their logs only go back as far as the start of march.thought they had to keep logs back further


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,905 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    Remembered something about call activity on o2's site logged in and got the logs going back to the 24th. The first text from them was on the 3/3/12 They say mum went to site on 25/2/12 @ 21.43:44 they texted pin and she put it on site. B*ll*x! At 25/2/12 21.44 mum was talking to my brother on the phone and its listed on the logs no text or anything from them. The previous activity on phone was to brother the previous day. There was no activity on phone till the 3/3/12 and it was from them. Screen shots sent to comreg to update their file. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭doleman2010


    I can see where this is going , very similar to our situation ,.
    I demanded the call logs from them and got them but when they didnt tally with their story,they done a u turn and claimed that the opt in was not done on the phone after all . O2 claimed the opt in was done via the internet with the texts being sent to the phone also confirming this , but as they were only recieved texts by the phone they couldnt produce any proof of this.
    I demanded they internet opt in times and dates from O2 and was supplied with a totally fabricated document .
    With the time and date given it was absolutely impossible for my dead son or anyone else to have subscibed to the sevice in the way they claimed .
    All this work took months and months .
    When they were caught out and confronted with their fabricted evidence they became extreemly agressive with us , at this stage I had eneough evidence to to to the Gardai with .
    But all we wanted was our dead sons money returned and an apology ,but that itself took further months .
    If you are able and willing to take them on go for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,905 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    I don't plan on letting this go. Bit more looking o2 are network partners with modeva (modeva.ie), modeva client is inkred (inkred.ie) website ns is modeva.ie, prizeclub.ie is operated by Inkred and powered by Modeva prizeclub.ie ns is also modeva.ie. do a whois on each domain and same names.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭doleman2010


    Well done , dont even bother with their customer care division in Limerick apart from using them to get call logs .
    The people who are involved in this are in O2s hq in Dublin , ie their wholesale division where they have the partnerships with the various third parties .
    Some of these content providers or platform providers are located outside of the state so legally they cannot be touched by anyone here also they are untouchable by the authorities in their own countries as any alleged incident has been commited here .
    That leaves the network provider here solely responsible as they are in the juristiction of the state .
    The fraud and security division of that company are also based with the sales division .
    In our situation within a couple of hours of me making our initial complaint to O2, they had amended their records to try to prevent the matter going any further.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Did you report this to the Garda Fraud Squad??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭doleman2010


    Yep dealt with Gardai in Harcourt St on the matter , they were more than helpful .


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Time to hassle Rabbitte to issue a ministerial directive to Comreg telling them to deal with the Premium Rate scammers. It took years to get Comreg to block porn dialler countries where eircom still charges €3.60 a minute and takes most of the revenue from the scam themselves.

    Of course one can opt in to dial them...but nobody does. The same should be done to the Premium Rate text fraudsters.

    Here is one example pre the blockage from Boards.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=114060&highlight=porn+dialler+eircom

    We organised a bit of a campaign on boards in late 2003 to block the scammers
    ( and eircom who creamed most of the revenue)

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=121082

    Comreg consulted and finally blocked the scammers about a year later.

    http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg0499.pdf

    This premium rate text scamming has been going on for years. Shall you start the campaign Doleman or shall I do so again. Enough is enough :(


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    cast_iron wrote: »
    A bank can't sign you up for a loan and just say "read the 10 pages of terms and conditions since you're an adult". They are obliged to tell you what the entire cost will be and what may affect changes in the money owed.

    According to your argument, they should not have to do this since we are all adults?

    Actually this is a big part of the problem, many of the victims are kids.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Time to hassle Rabbitte to issue a ministerial directive to Comreg telling them to deal with the Premium Rate scammers. It took years to get Comreg to block porn dialler countries where eircom still charges €3.60 a minute and takes most of the revenue from the scam themselves.

    Of course one can opt in to dial them...but nobody does. The same should be done to the Premium Rate text fraudsters.

    Here is one example pre the blockage from Boards.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=114060&highlight=porn+dialler+eircom

    We organised a bit of a campaign on boards in late 2003 to block the scammers
    ( and eircom who creamed most of the revenue)

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=121082

    Comreg consulted and finally blocked the scammers about a year later.

    http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg0499.pdf

    This premium rate text scamming has been going on for years. Shall you start the campaign Doleman or shall I do so again. Enough is enough :(

    I don't see this issue as the same. I would have said tough luck if you didn't secure your PC back in 2003 and fell victim to a dialler scam. While phone operators certainly benefited handsomely, I don't believe that they were in cahoots with them. This is different.

    I see no reason why premium rate texting should not be available and accessible to those who want it but there is bad practice going between the operators and the content providers and nothing being done by the regulator. Everybody uses plausible deniability and points to the other fella.

    Those mobile operators who have these "trusted partnerships" need to detail those partnerships on their web sites and explain how these partnerships work.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Nope. What is required is very simple.

    1. Everybody is opted out of every text number above 53xxx straight off.
    2. Everybody over 18 may contact their Operator and Opt in at any time.
    3. Everybody who cannot prove they are 18 or over remains opted out until they prove they are 18. Under 18 year olds are not allowed to enter a contract which is exactly what 3 x €2 premium texts a week amounts to.

    End of sh1te.

    Notes.

    To contact a 159x number you need a pin, that costs around €2.50 a minute where some of these texts cost nearly that much each.

    All 15xx numbers can be blocked free of charge from any landline. Apply this to mobiles. This is an opt out not an opt in by the way.

    Nobody has complained about the Porn Dialler block implemented in 2004 bar the scammers themselves. I never heard a single complaint about porn dialler activity ever again and no consumers were robbed by the scum afterwards.

    Opt In mechanisms work against scammers and fraudsters if UNIVERSALLY applied like the Diego Garcia dialling ban was. Selective banning is not possible or feasible.

    F*ck declarations of interest with content partners. That is worthless. :(

    Unload every premium text number over 53xxx and stop the fraud NOW!!!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    I agree bob. Won't happen in a hurry though.
    Whatever these guys are making (and it's quite alot), the government takes a nice slice in vat, corporation tax and income tax alone. Assuming they operate in/from ROI.
    That's not to say something shouldn't be done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Nope. What is required is very simple.

    1. Everybody is opted out of every text number above 53xxx straight off.
    2. Everybody over 18 may contact their Operator and Opt in at any time.
    3. Everybody who cannot prove they are 18 or over remains opted out until they prove they are 18. Under 18 year olds are not allowed to enter a contract which is exactly what 3 x €2 premium texts a week amounts to.

    End of sh1te.

    Notes.

    To contact a 159x number you need a pin, that costs around €2.50 a minute where some of these texts cost nearly that much each.

    All 15xx numbers can be blocked free of charge from any landline. Apply this to mobiles. This is an opt out not an opt in by the way.

    Nobody has complained about the Porn Dialler block implemented in 2004 bar the scammers themselves. I never heard a single complaint about porn dialler activity ever again and no consumers were robbed by the scum afterwards.

    Opt In mechanisms work against scammers and fraudsters if UNIVERSALLY applied like the Diego Garcia dialling ban was. Selective banning is not possible or feasible.

    F*ck declarations of interest with content partners. That is worthless. :(

    Unload every premium text number over 53xxx and stop the fraud NOW!!!!

    Yes but what about charities and the Late Late? :)

    Seriously, there are plenty of legitimate uses of premium rate short codes.

    The operators will wise up once they are named and shamed.

    There's also a lot of consumer ignorance that needs to be addressed. Personally, I'd prefer this route as otherwise you are advocating a "mammy state". If we don't hold our suppliers to account then there will be something else of a similar nature that will happen down the line and the cycle will continue.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Hear all these excuses before with the Porn Diallers. Unload the number ranges.

    You retain teh right to opt in if you are old enough. 53xxx numbers is plenty for the late late.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Hopi watcher


    BrianD wrote: »
    Yes but what about charities and the Late Late? :)

    Seriously, there are plenty of legitimate uses of premium rate short codes.

    The operators will wise up once they are named and shamed.

    There's also a lot of consumer ignorance that needs to be addressed. Personally, I'd prefer this route as otherwise you are advocating a "mammy state". If we don't hold our suppliers to account then there will be something else of a similar nature that will happen down the line and the cycle will continue.
    It is beginning to look as if you are working for one of these cowboys. The fact is that they deliberately use misleading advertising. For example all the ads on TV3 are focused on a prize that could be won. The word "free" is often used. The voice over never explains that a response will entrap the phone owner into a "service" which will take money, up to €10 a week automatically, from call credit and the Operator is under no obligation to provide anything of like value in return. Terms such as "this is a subscription service" are jargon.
    There is currently an ad on the net which actually uses the "congratulations you have won a iPod" as a lure and despite the fact that ComReg have been made fully aware of this nothing has been done. If you click the lure you are than asked to answer a question, text the answer and bang, you are entrapped in a "subscription service" and no sign of any iPod. The same ad has photos of "previous winners" and again ComReg have been informed that these photos are fakes, but again nothing happens.
    This theft is now going on in Ireland for the past 6/7 years, it has all but been stoppoed in the UK by proper regulation and still nothing happens here.
    After the Mahon Tribunal wouldn't you think that someone, somewhere would say, enough is enough, and stop this.
    By the way TV3 must take a lot of the blame, they are the only TV station carrying these ads now. Don't let your children watch TV3 daytime unsupervised--that is when these ads are aired.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Hopi watcher


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Actually this is a big part of the problem, many of the victims are kids.


    Correct. In fact all the TV ads go out on daytime on TV3. There is clearly a very high degree of targeting.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    It is beginning to look as if you are working for one of these cowboys. .

    Brian, do you or have you worked for a Radio station that uses Text Competitions??? eg Phantom FM

    I confess I do not and have not.

    I have no issues with text numbers up to 53xxx save where texting a 50xxx number in certain cases directly leads to you being victim of a 57052 type fraud thereafter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭doleman2010


    There seems to be 3 Basic ways in which these so called services appear on your phone .

    1. Where the phone user is tricked into signing up for a service by either not seeing the hidden details and terms or not realising that they are subscribing to a service long term.

    2.Where some family member, friend or third party uses the victims phone to subscibe to a service either as a prank, unknowningly or deliberatly without the victims knowledge.

    3.Where the victims phone is targeted totally fraudulently ,by using number ranges or targeting a specific number .


    The mobile networks have a lot to answer for, as they seem to always side with their revenue sharing partners .not their customers.
    Comreg-(Regtel) dont seem to be really bothered, they side with the network operators and believe their version of events.


    In our case it was the latter part of no3 and it took me months of work to unravel the web of lies .
    O2 seemed to think that stealing from the phone acc of a person that had only been buried 2 days was perfectly ok and within their standard of business ethics .


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    O2 controlled all 5xxx numbers up to 53xxx at one point, from memory. You had to deal with O2 or an agent of theirs to get one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    It is beginning to look as if you are working for one of these cowboys. The fact is that they deliberately use misleading advertising. For example all the ads on TV3 are focused on a prize that could be won. The word "free" is often used. The voice over never explains that a response will entrap the phone owner into a "service" which will take money, up to €10 a week automatically, from call credit and the Operator is under no obligation to provide anything of like value in return. Terms such as "this is a subscription service" are jargon.
    There is currently an ad on the net which actually uses the "congratulations you have won a iPod" as a lure and despite the fact that ComReg have been made fully aware of this nothing has been done. If you click the lure you are than asked to answer a question, text the answer and bang, you are entrapped in a "subscription service" and no sign of any iPod. The same ad has photos of "previous winners" and again ComReg have been informed that these photos are fakes, but again nothing happens.
    This theft is now going on in Ireland for the past 6/7 years, it has all but been stoppoed in the UK by proper regulation and still nothing happens here.
    After the Mahon Tribunal wouldn't you think that someone, somewhere would say, enough is enough, and stop this.
    By the way TV3 must take a lot of the blame, they are the only TV station carrying these ads now. Don't let your children watch TV3 daytime unsupervised--that is when these ads are aired.

    not sure how you can draw this conclusion from what I have already written on this topic. I have experience in dealing in short codes on standard rate and premium rate.

    The way people reacted to the porn diallers was nothing short of hysteria and very Irish. It was nothing short of ridiculous and pandered to mammy state rationale and lack of personal resposibility. However, it doesn't bother me that these numbers were eventually banned and technology has leap frogged that particular issue for most people.

    Premium rate service - I'm all for them and if somebody wants to part with their money for them, let them at it. However, let's play fair and square and these arrangements with mobile operators are unacceptable and need to be discontinued. My own operator is one of those who seem to have "trusted partners" and that annoys me.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    O2 controlled all 5xxx numbers up to 53xxx at one point, from memory. You had to deal with O2 or an agent of theirs to get one.

    In the early days there has a lot of "reserved" numbers. I believe that ComReg have stopped this practice. You can reserve a number but you have to then lose it or use. The process of getting a shortcode is straightforward enough. You then have to go and deal with each network to get connected.


This discussion has been closed.
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