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SOPA- now with added ACTA

  • 05-01-2012 1:20pm
    #1
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,866 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    So yet another anti piracy/ government can do anything they bill is doing the rounds in congress and has lead to an epic PR fail from Capcom.

    From the little I've read so far (and I'll wait til I read UltraDavid's inevitable post on the topic before I say anything for deffos) it seems this one is very similar to the last.

    An organisation called the ESA (Entertainment Software Association) has come out in support of the bill.

    The ESA represent many huge media corporations... including Capcom.

    If I am understanding correctly, there was a piece on another, unrelated website saying Capcom, Sony, Nintendo and some others had withdrawn the ESA's stated support.

    They actually didn't, it seems, but they've stayed remarkably quiet. they don't want to touch it, it seems.

    Except for Capcom, who've come out and said the ESA represents their views on this matter.

    Personally finding it quite difficult not to fly off the handle about this, and on the Big Two last night Spooky made several comments along the lines of "fine, if I am not wanted I can just go elsewhere". Capcom Unity has 2 threads full of people asking why the hell they did this.

    SOPA apparently will be a terrible thing for internet usage in general in the States, outside of streaming. I need to find out more about it.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Fergus_


    I was actually just reading about SOPA this morning.

    Completely oppose this, this could potentially affect our scene with your channel could be closed down or prevented from uploading further couldn't it?


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,866 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Fergus_ wrote: »
    I was actually just reading about SOPA this morning.

    Completely oppose this, this could potentially affect our scene with your channel could be closed down or prevented from uploading further couldn't it?

    The likely outcome of SOPA passing in it's current form as I read it is that Youtube and any American video streaming site would immediately cease allowing any and all video game footage immediately, with permission from the developers or not, so yes.

    I can see a future of possibly uploading to some Check site or something like that, but with Americans afraid to stream and popular sites unable to upload without risk of censure, it wouldn't be good for anyone involved with SF.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Sabre0001


    You'd have to wonder if they're thinking about the backlash at all? They'll get control over streams (and a nice financial boost as a result), but is it really worth it. Capcom has said they'll look after people who have helped so you can assume that the likes of EVO, Cross Counter and so on would get licenses - but at what cost, both to the organisation and to the community at large.

    Disappointing really...

    🤪



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,689 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    The worst thing is that *we* can't do jack-shít about it.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,866 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Sabre0001 wrote: »
    You'd have to wonder if they're thinking about the backlash at all? They'll get control over streams (and a nice financial boost as a result), but is it really worth it. Capcom has said they'll look after people who have helped so you can assume that the likes of EVO, Cross Counter and so on would get licenses - but at what cost, both to the organisation and to the community at large.

    Disappointing really...

    Capcom wanting to help doesn't matter when the US govt. can jail anyone they feel like who's streaming/ uploading vids .. UNLESS Capcom are willing to grant people proper full licenses to stream.

    Can anyone see Capcom granting me one, for example?

    The fact they've supported the ESA's position is rather silly, to me too.
    K.O.Kiki wrote: »
    The worst thing is that *we* can't do jack-shít about it.

    Yes, that really is the thing that grates, we've got to hope America comes to their senses...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Sabre0001


    Capcom wanting to help doesn't matter when the US govt. can jail anyone they feel like who's streaming/ uploading vids .. UNLESS Capcom are willing to grant people proper full licenses to stream.

    Can anyone see Capcom granting me one, for example?

    The fact they've supported the ESA's position is rather silly, to me too.



    Yes, that really is the thing that grates, we've got to hope America comes to their senses...

    Yeah, sorry that's what I mean. They'll have a license for EVO for example ($$$ likely), but the everyman is screwed. Wondering if they've weighed up pros and cons - i.e. money from own stream / license vs bad feeling and general community damage.

    🤪



  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,866 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Sabre0001 wrote: »
    Yeah, sorry that's what I mean. They'll have a license for EVO for example ($$$ likely), but the everyman is screwed. Wondering if they've weighed up pros and cons - i.e. money from own stream / license vs bad feeling and general community damage.

    There's plenty of knee jerk reactionary posts on capcom-unity about the whole thing about boycotting capcom games. Will be interesting to see how it pans out. Would be a lot more interesting if the last 2 years of my work weren't at jeopardy :D


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,866 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM




  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭albel nox


    From what i have heard about SOPA and PITA over the last month or so is that its mainly big business out to sensor alot of independent productions so that they can make more money.

    Thats about the gist from what i've read


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭PPC


    I've heard that Google, Amazon, eBay, Facebook, PayPal and a few other big sites say that they will turn their sites offline if SOPA comes in.
    Hopefully these companies have enough power to resist this bill coming in.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭Misty Chaos


    I've being following the whole SOPA debacle on Reddit the past while. Can't say I know the ins and out of it but what I do know is that it is seriously bad news and am obviously against it.

    Its a massive mess if you ask me and comes down to nothing more than massive hollywood corporations just trying to protect their bloated profits ( not to mention turn the internet into an equivalent of cable, which no right thinking person wants! :mad: )


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,866 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    albel nox wrote: »
    From what i have heard about SOPA and PITA over the last month or so is that its mainly big business out to sensor alot of independent productions so that they can make more money.

    Thats about the gist from what i've read

    The basic gist is that it'll be hyper easy to prosecute for pirating. This is what they want, and I don't necessarily disagree that it's way too easy to pirate, so yes it's completely about money.

    The side effect (which some people might also call the main effect) is that yes, it appears a large business will be able to sabotage any net based presence quite easily... So whatever the initial intent it, it could certainly be used the way you say.

    (This is all from my laymans understanding and I am very open to correction til I hear from someone who knows better).
    PPC wrote: »
    I've heard that Google, Amazon, eBay, Facebook, PayPal and a few other big sites say that they will turn their sites offline if SOPA comes in.
    Hopefully these companies have enough power to resist this bill coming in.

    As pointed out above, I don't see how any one of these businesses would be able to continue unimpeeded as the website will be responsible for the actions of those posting on it (I really can't believe that, it seems incredible in the literal sense of the word) so yes, it would be the end I think of the viable US presence for a lot of them.

    Again, assuming the people I have been reading up from aren't conspiracy theory loonies


  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭albel nox


    PPC wrote: »
    I've heard that Google, Amazon, eBay, Facebook, PayPal and a few other big sites say that they will turn their sites offline if SOPA comes in.
    Hopefully these companies have enough power to resist this bill coming in.


    As far as i am aware, American people can go to the local governor or whatever it is and protest against it to them. If enough complain the governor or what would have to oppose the bill as no matter how much funding he would get for his re-election there would be no point if he angered all his would be voters and wouldn't get another term in his position.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭Owwmykneecap


    The money behind SOPA is crazy big. It will pass.

    As for the blackout, Alexis from Reddit has tried contacting the sites with little response.

    If anyone will do it it will be Wikipedia, in fact I think it was essentially Jimmy Wales' idea.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/video/83688294/


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Orim


    It's not just with politicians , it can be done with businesses. I know that Godaddy in the states has withdrawn it's support after a boycott of thier services. So that is something that is possible for anyone that uses American companies that are supporting the bill.

    EDIT : The bad news is that this is what? The fourth or fifth time in the last year or so that the same bill has esstentially been tried. There's enough money behind that I reckon it will just keep getting pushed till it passes.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,866 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Three ESA members stand against them.

    http://www.joystiq.com/2012/01/05/esa-member-epic-games-speaks-out-against-sopa/

    You're looking awfully **** right now, capcom.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,689 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    Rock Paper Shotgun have a list of ESA members for/against/undeclared.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭PPC


    Capcom have given some info on their stance
    Link
    Guys, a few points:

    1. We are members of the ESA (along side pretty much every other major publisher in our industry).

    2. We've only ever stated that the ESA represents us in legislative matters (again, like every other publisher). We have not stated any stance on our support (or not) for SOPA. Inferring more than that is bad journalism (which seems to be rampant based upon the rereporting of a six word response to inquiry).

    3. Months ago I've commented that streaming folks/video uploading have absolutely nothing to worry about. We've always been very accomodating to our supporters (and as this thread would demonstrate, even our detractors) and I don't ever see that changing.

    The ESA is working with representatives to improve solutions to what is a real problem. For more details, Gamasutra had a statement from the ESA that states:

    "As an industry of innovators and creators, we understand the importance of both technological innovation and content protection, and do not believe the two are mutually exclusive. Rogue websites -- those singularly devoted to profiting from their blatant illegal piracy -- restrict demand for legitimate video game products and services, thereby costing jobs."

    "Our industry needs effective remedies to address this specific problem, and we support the House and Senate proposals to achieve this objective. We are mindful of concerns raised about a negative impact on innovation. We look forward to working with the House and Senate, and all interested parties, to find the right balance and define useful remedies to combat willful wrongdoers that do not impede lawful product and business model innovation."

    At Capcom, we're game makers, not legislators. We do not have an internal stance on this particular issue and are not planning to. We'll get back to making games. Thanks.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,866 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Capcom have given some info on their stance
    Link
    Guys, a few points:

    1. We are members of the ESA (along side pretty much every other major publisher in our industry).

    2. We've only ever stated that the ESA represents us in legislative matters (again, like every other publisher). We have not stated any stance on our support (or not) for SOPA. Inferring more than that is bad journalism (which seems to be rampant based upon the rereporting of a six word response to inquiry).

    3. Months ago I've commented that streaming folks/video uploading have absolutely nothing to worry about. We've always been very accomodating to our supporters (and as this thread would demonstrate, even our detractors) and I don't ever see that changing.

    The ESA is working with representatives to improve solutions to what is a real problem. For more details, Gamasutra had a statement from the ESA that states:

    "As an industry of innovators and creators, we understand the importance of both technological innovation and content protection, and do not believe the two are mutually exclusive. Rogue websites -- those singularly devoted to profiting from their blatant illegal piracy -- restrict demand for legitimate video game products and services, thereby costing jobs."

    "Our industry needs effective remedies to address this specific problem, and we support the House and Senate proposals to achieve this objective. We are mindful of concerns raised about a negative impact on innovation. We look forward to working with the House and Senate, and all interested parties, to find the right balance and define useful remedies to combat willful wrongdoers that do not impede lawful product and business model innovation."

    At Capcom, we're game makers, not legislators. We do not have an internal stance on this particular issue and are not planning to. We'll get back to making games. Thanks.

    Hmm. The only way, once again, that someone like me will have "nothing to worry about" is if I get a free license from them.

    Not that it will matter if youtube doesn't exist in its current form because this bill will pass.

    Nice sidestep Capcom, but your peers are still coming out against this, and it will still negatively impact your games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Sabre0001


    Sounds like they're backpeddling once again. Seems to be the way Capcom is playing lately. Come out with something...wait for reaction and alter behaviour based on it.

    And as Doom says, it could be all for show. If YouTube and other hosting sites decide to play it super safe, it won't matter what their stance is.

    What they need to do is provide an actual, clarified stance - i.e. we're against it and making our thoughts known to ESA.

    🤪



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  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭albel nox


    Thats just the type of BS you'd expect from a company like Crapcom.

    They don't wanna say they're against it but not saying it makes them look bad to the people who buy there games. So they can just hide behind this ESA (ohhh we're like everyone else durrr) crap as if it removes they're abilities to make decisions.

    This whole thing is a real shame, its just corporate censorship. It a huge blow to communities like this which are some of the greatest examples of use of the internet IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Orim


    Give them a chance guys they're obviously busy coming up with new gems for us to buy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭albel nox


    But how will we hear about them!? Noooooo!


  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Plumpynuter


    This is worrying but its not only the laws but enforcement by the companies that's important. There are loads of copyrighted material on streams and youtube but only some companies enforce their rights. If Capcom decided that only one person/company could stream their games then it would be detrimental to their brand. I am sure they know that (Capcom's Solicitors and Accountants excluded :rolleyes:).

    Taking Call of Duty as an example. It is all over the web and far more popular then fighting games on youtube. They are incorporating instant recording and uploading into their games to encourage this practice. If somebody in the future was to make big money from streams they might want a share. Modern media companies would much rather partner themselves with companies then restrict them from streaming. For the games companies the price of the ticket is the game. Did any of you see the attempt from Activision to make their own show on COD elite. It ended up so far as no more then celebrity COD with players throwing grenades at choppers. They must have got a TV company to make it. Shiny but sh1te.

    Its all about intellectual property and brand protection. If one game makes it mainstream (TV or huge ratings for streams, millions of viewers) as it where then the company that makes the game will want their share and control of how their brand is portrayed.

    What can you do? It might mean in the long run, real sponsorship and big prizes and investment. They will always want local tournaments and streams. I still think that the UFC model is the model for fighting games in the future. We are a generation away from the visuals and production of fighting games getting to a level that they will go mainstream but I do think it will happen.

    Some of the lads are looking for pay per view on streams at the mo and it is just not worth it for the production and professionalism of the streams.


  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Plumpynuter


    Capcom have given some info on their stance


    Hmm. The only way, once again, that someone like me will have "nothing to worry about" is if I get a free license from them.

    Not that it will matter if youtube doesn't exist in its current form because this bill will pass.

    Nice sidestep Capcom, but your peers are still coming out against this, and it will still negatively impact your games.

    True it is more the vagueness of their position that is the problem.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,866 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    This is worrying but its not only the laws but enforcement by the companies that's important. There are loads of copyrighted material on streams and youtube but only some companies enforce their rights. If Capcom decided that only one person/company could stream their games then it would be detrimental to their brand. I am sure they know that (Capcom's Solicitors and Accountants excluded :rolleyes:).

    Actually, the whole point about this and the last 2 bills is that it will take away the control from Capcom and hand it over to the US govt. They will be able to prosecute regardless of Capcom's desires.


  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Plumpynuter


    Actually, the whole point about this and the last 2 bills is that it will take away the control from Capcom and hand it over to the US govt. They will be able to prosecute regardless of Capcom's desires.

    :eek: not good


  • Registered Users Posts: 567 ✭✭✭Vyze


    What's to stop non-American events and recordings, though? If a video sharing website not hosted in America (say, Nico Video) allows people from Europe, Japan, etc to upload videos from non-US games, the US government can't do much, can they?


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,866 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Vyze wrote: »
    What's to stop non-American events and recordings, though? If a video sharing website not hosted in America (say, Nico Video) allows people from Europe, Japan, etc to upload videos from non-US games, the US government can't do much, can they?

    100% correct and I am already starting to use another provider than youtube for the odd video myself. If the worse came to worst I'd certainly try to continue, myself.

    The thing is- you can't just remove America from fighting games. So many of the characters, the hype and tbh the money comes from there. I'm sure where the video is hosted is irrevelant if it's uploaded FROM America. That loophole pretty much doesn't exist from what I've heard.

    Financially, America is a huge market too. Capcom, Arksys, SNK and what have you might be able to survive with 25-50% of their market vanishing but they certainly won't thrive, and the market will certainly shrink if this comes to pass.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Plumpynuter




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