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Extra services for Nenagh branch!

  • 11-02-2012 3:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭


    Tipp FM's twitter is claiming that far from the Nenagh branch facing closure, services will be expanded on the line. See below for details. I won't comment further as my response would probably feature several of the banned phrases on this sub-forum.
    ***NEWS***
    Proposals for extra train services in North Tipperary...
    A proposal is to be sent from Iarnrod Eireann to the National Transport Authority to provide an early morning service from Limerick to Dublin via Nenagh and Roscrea.

    Fine Gael Deputy Noel Coonan says these proposals if implemented would see an early morning service stop in Roscrea at 6,38 and arrive in Dublin at 8.20, without having to change trains.

    A number of additional services on the Nenagh/Roscrea line, would see one extra service in the morning and two in the evening, which will improve the number of services from four to seven.

    The route changes need the approval of the National Transport Authority.
    Poilin Ni Riain


«1345

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Interesting, they'll have to stress and tamp the track properly now. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Junior Minister for Transport Alan Kelly is a local, Portroe just nearby

    Pays to have a minister in the area :)

    Train to Dublin from Nenagh is still faster then the bus, twenty five euro return is decent


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Two chances of improvements to Nenagh branch services - none and **** all. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Interesting.A vote-catching exercise or a last-gasp attempt to rescue the line?

    I imagine they'll put on the trains, noone will use them and the line will be shut for good.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    here's the thread:
    http://www.facebook.com/TippFMRadio/posts/385299994818956

    I added a helpful comment. In case the TippFMers don't like it, the substance of it is embedded herewith:
    Dear Alan Kelly and Noel Coonan - Dick Fearn has a message for you:


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 629 ✭✭✭Partizan


    How about Brendan Howlin doing the same for the South Wexford line?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Partizan wrote: »
    How about Brendan Howlin doing the same for the South Wexford line?

    Why bother, it's just a stunt and the Nenagh will still close because as Varadkhar will state 'it's an operational matter for IE' .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭Niles


    Why bother, it's just a stunt and the Nenagh will still close because as Varadkhar will state 'it's an operational matter for IE' .

    "That would be an ecumenical operational matter" :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Rumour control on RUI forum sez that as part of the proposal some other services will get moved around.

    Here's the departures from Limerick-Nenagh now:
    0625, 0730, 1645, 1745
    Here's the rumoured new arrangement
    0515, 0625, 1605, 1705

    I think IE just ended any pretence that they were interested in Nenagh commuters!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,817 ✭✭✭Poxyshamrock


    How about the Nenagh to Limerick times?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    How about the Nenagh to Limerick times?
    Presumably the 0625 would still be the turnback service although I think that should be the 0515 and turn it back at Roscrea to create a Roscrea commuter. What it looks like though is that the number of southbounds would drop to three since the 0515 would escape the branch and come back via the Junction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭Dublin Spotter


    irish Rail have not applied to have a timetable change so it wont happen for a whle and an 08.20 arrival in Heuston can't happen as there is a service from Waterford at that time. There is a gap between 08.20-08.33 only.


  • Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭kc56


    irish Rail have not applied to have a timetable change so it wont happen for a whle and an 08.20 arrival in Heuston can't happen as there is a service from Waterford at that time. There is a gap between 08.20-08.33 only.

    There might be a 13 min gap at Heuston, but there is only a 5 min gap at Kildare between the Waterford (0741) and Portlaoise (0746) trains. Even at that, the Westport, Kildare at 0755, often arrives inside this 13 min gap. So there's not much room for another train without adjusting timings of other services.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    kc56 wrote: »
    There might be a 13 min gap at Heuston, but there is only a 5 min gap at Kildare between the Waterford (0741) and Portlaoise (0746) trains. Even at that, the Westport, Kildare at 0755, often arrives inside this 13 min gap. So there's not much room for another train without adjusting timings of other services.
    Unless the Limerick-Ballyb-Heuston service joined the Westport and came in in tandem?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,893 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Unless the Limerick-Ballyb-Heuston service joined the Westport and came in in tandem?

    That would require a 22000 set to work from Limerick in order for it to join the Westport train. There should be some available but it will require one to be dedicated for this line along with it's slotting into other trains ex Dublin to make use of it for the rest of the day. If this set is going to then join onto another incoming train, it is spoiling the line for either of the 3 mentioned services as it waits, which means chaos if one is help up by even a minute. The Limerick driver also has to to either travel back into Heuston and then back idle on a Dublin-Cork-Limerick service or for a Cork train to stop and pick him up, he again traveling home idle.

    It's easier for the branch train to improve it's links with ex Cork services IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    That would require a 22000 set to work from Limerick in order for it to join the Westport train.
    Well it seems likely that it would be a 22000 irrespective if this is actually going to happen. Sending a 70mph set up the mainline at peak would be madness.
    If this set is going to then join onto another incoming train, it is spoiling the line for either of the 3 mentioned services as it waits, which means chaos if one is help up by even a minute.
    Which probably makes the Portlaoise one the one to join with, since the Westport and Waterford services join the mainline later.
    It's easier for the branch train to improve it's links with ex Cork services IMO.
    Clearly. Given the timetable outlined by the TD (dep Roscrea 0638), the 0505 ex Cork would have passed Ballybrophy about 9 minutes earlier, so if the service left Limerick at 0505 a connection should be possible. However, the attraction of this service would presumably be that Nenagh-ites would have their pick of seating, not merely the leavings of the dreaded Cork-ites.


  • Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭kc56


    Which probably makes the Portlaoise one the one to join with, since the Westport and Waterford services join the mainline later.

    All these are 6-car trains. The Portlaoise stops at nearly every station, except Clondakin and Cherry Orchard, and not all of them (Adamstown, Hazelhatch, Sallins?) can take a 9 car so that's not on.

    The Westport is a 3 car but is the least timely of these so joining it, even though it would get a much needed increase in capacity, is not really practical.

    According to RUI, no application has been made by IE so this all speculation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    kc56 wrote: »
    All these are 6-car trains. The Portlaoise stops at nearly every station, except Clondakin and Cherry Orchard, and not all of them (Adamstown, Hazelhatch, Sallins?) can take a 9 car so that's not on
    Yeah, I thought as much. Still, some scheme must have been cooked up to make it work because otherwise this TD and Alan Kelly are going to look like right clowns.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Announced:
    http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4483&p=116&n=237
    http://www.irishrail.ie/media/Dublin_Limerick_via_Nenagh_from_5th_March2.pdf

    Some red faces at RUI I'd imagine - someone at NTA seems to have led them astray.
    Irish Rail have made no submission to the NTA and I have that in writing so who knows where all this is coming from


  • Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭mydiscworld


    Note the 5.15 train from Limerick takes a whopping 3hrs 10 to get into Heustion by 8.25.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,464 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    Happy to see a lunchtime Limk-Dublin direct train as a result


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    The 1705 from Limerick can't pick up/drop off at Roscrea because there is only one usable platform - the footbridge no longer exists and the second platform has no access. This means the last northbound to Roscrea is 1605 (currently 1645) unless you want to take the 1705 to Ballybrophy and wait for it to head back :rolleyes: The 1605 is heading back from Ballyb at that point which is what forces the 1705 to leave earlier than it might and which forces it into the inaccessible platform at Roscrea. An accessible footbridge would solve if you have a half-million quid for elevators and so on - the area around the station does not appear to give a good option for a separate entrance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭pigtown


    So the last Limerick- Nenagh train departs at 17.05. Looks like they can wave goodbye to their already small number of commuters.

    On a seperate note, did anyone see the Mid-Western Area Strategic Plan? http://www.mwra.ie/Regional_Planning/documents/MWASP_DRAFTReport_09012012.pdf
    One of its suggestions is to give free travel on the Limerick-Ballybrophy line for six months as a promotion. Is this a good idea?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    What a dog's dinner of a service. I suppose marketing the line to users in its catchment area would be completely out of the question? The only thing to come from this 'improvement' will be to rack up losses and make a more convincing case for closure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    As far as I can see, there is nowhere between Killonan and Ballybrophy that two trains can pass AND open their doors at once because the 2nd platforms at Birdhill and Roscrea are inaccessible and Nenagh isn't a full block post. Because of this Roscrea (population >6,300 in the 2011 census in the urban area) has its last train from Limerick and to Dublin departing forty minutes earlier. I suppose when you have mini-CTC like the Waterford line you can have loops in the middle of nowhere (Ballyhale) and maximise a single platform setup.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭flyingsnail


    Or if the existing signalling system was to be retained alter the layout so the loop is just outside the station and maintain a single line and platform through the station. Considering the likely costs of rebuilding the platforms and making them wheelchair accessible this may even be a cheaper option.


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    What a dog's dinner of a service. I suppose marketing the line to users in its catchment area would be completely out of the question?

    The only user that IE are concerned about is the Minister for Public Transport, who obviously wants some local bragging rights rather than taking steps (god knows what though) to ensure the line's long-term viability.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,218 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Hungerford wrote: »
    The only user that IE are concerned about is the Minister for Public Transport, who obviously wants some local bragging rights rather than taking steps (god knows what though) to ensure the line's long-term viability.

    This has as much as been confirmed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    IE make such a big deal about consultation when the huge Heuston and Connolly timetable changes are made - a small change in the scheme of things like this one is one where public engagement could really make a difference not least in picking up errors, omissions and missed opportunities.

    For example - it was picked up on the equivalent RUI thread by doherty_jack (who seems to be connected to the local rail partnership) that Roscrea (not served by the 1705 Limerick-Ballybrophy) could be served on Saturdays because the crossing train which occupies the platform is Mon-Fri only. The laugh is that the train probably will stop on Saturdays and the doors will open but IE will just keep it on the downlow because people might use it and then where would we be.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭dhaslam


    If the line costs €20,000 per day to run, as per the Irish Independent today, and there are only 73 passengers and there is a good road running paralell it would be more efficient and cheaper to use individual taxis.


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