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The Clerical Child Abuse Thread (merged)

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Comments

  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Business as usual so, sickening, disgusting and twisted business as usual.

    Anything they can do to protect the church, nothings changed at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Not even slightly surprised by this. Business as usual, in all senses of the word.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    The RCC in the state of New York spent $2.1m over 2007-15 on lobbying against stronger laws on child abuse: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/catholic-church-hired-lobby-firms-block-n-y-kid-rape-laws-article-1.2655010

    Are good, decent people who are putting money into the collection plates every Sunday properly aware of this?


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Are good, decent people who are putting money into the collection plates every Sunday properly aware of this?

    In my experience alot people put blinkers on and pretend they didn't hear of such sickening stuff, sort of the same as the abuse in Ireland.

    The church could really have redeemed itself in Ireland if its followers got out and openly protested about the church's refusal to deal with compensation for victims, UN investigations etc. Instead we hear mostly silence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,521 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Interesting and good concept on helping the homeless. Maybe I am being a tad sceptical with regard to the Govt and the religious orders, but it has me wondering if this may end up as part of the reparation deal re land in lieu of cash done with the religious orders for their part in the scandals.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/coveney-to-ask-religious-orders-for-housing-land-1.2695336


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,811 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Tony Walsh (aka "The Singing Priest") faces a maximum of two years for raping a boy, as he committed it when it would have only counted as "indecent assault".

    Words fail me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,521 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Noted it was his defence, Ciaran O'Loughlin SC, who pointed out to the judge that, as the latest complaint was made in 2011, years before the last trial in 2015, it could have been included in the book of evidence and charges at that trial, "concurrent sentences passed then, your honour". It's a wonder he didn't try the "it was deliberate slowness by the prosecution to get an extra trial & extra conviction and sentence" claim. I don't know if the DPP is tied down to using the original legislation against defendants existing at the time of the offence/s or if the current or optional legislaton can be used.

    I'd imagine his choice of rape implement would cause severe upset to his fellow clergy, no matter what faith he belonged to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    Tony Walsh (aka "The Singing Priest") faces a maximum of two years for raping a boy, as he committed it when it would have only counted as "indecent assault".

    Words fail me.

    Also JP2, well his officials, also did a bit of a go slow on laicising him, but if one recalls that sordid tale of Marcial Maciel, Founder of the Legionaries of Christ, that isn't surprising.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    You know what,
    I'm actually surprised that a sex abuse victim hasn't tried to murder their abuser at this stage, especially when they encounter such lax sentencing when the issue goes to court.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    This one did.


    So did this one.

    And this one.
    And this one.

    I'd be surprised if there were any victims who didn't at least entertain the notion to be honest.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭FluffyAngel


    Cabaal wrote: »
    You know what,
    I'm actually surprised that a sex abuse victim hasn't tried to murder their abuser at this stage, especially when they encounter such lax sentencing when the issue goes to court.

    I'm making inroads on the above,all i need is to work out how to hold a gun/knife while eating ice cream(i want to kill him in cold blood)..

    i have only spotted this thread and will in time input..




    btw,the above is a joke(i don't need ice cream)


  • Moderators Posts: 51,683 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    I'm making inroads on the above,all i need is to work out how to hold a gun/knife while eating ice cream(i want to kill him in cold blood)..

    i have only spotted this thread and will in time input..




    btw,the above is a joke(i don't need ice cream)

    MOD NOTE

    A thread on child abuse really isn't the appropriate place for joke telling.

    It's a serious discussion thread, so please modify any future contributions to reflect that.

    Thanks for your attention.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭FluffyAngel


    Delirium wrote: »
    MOD NOTE

    A thread on child abuse really isn't the appropriate place for joke telling.

    It's a serious discussion thread, so please modify any future contributions to reflect that.

    Thanks for your attention.

    Thanks Delirium,as a person who was abused i make no apology for using humour as a way of dealing with it..

    please note that i made no reference to other people and their hurt, i use humour to make the journey easier ..

    if i said i want to kill him/them then i could be charged with an offence,humour has always being used as a medium to express..


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,811 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    The latest episode of the Irish History Podcast discusses child abuse in Ireland. About 8 minutes & 30 seconds in, they bring up the derailment of a Department of Education survey on sexual abuse by ultra-conservative Catholic activists Christina Bhean Ui Chribin and Una Bhean Ui Mhathuna, as they took out a court order in January 1982 to stop the survey dead in its tracks.

    Some of you may know Ui Chribin for supporting the "mother" responsible for the Roscommon House of Horrors.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Some of you may know Ui Chribin for supporting the "mother" responsible for the Roscommon House of Horrors.

    Thought I recognised the name,
    The other "gem" has been a figure against progress in Ireland having been a founding member of Mna na hEireann (c. 1972 – late 1970s) and the Irish Housewives Union (c. 1980 – early 1990s) as well as being active with the Council for Family Rights (1980s), Anti-Abortion Campaign (1983), No Divorce Campaign (1996/97), Friends of Youth Defence (1990s) and Coir (2000s).

    More info about the case here https://comeheretome.com/2012/07/29/una-bean-mhic-mhathuna-40-years-of-reactionary-politics/

    What an awful hateful women,


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,907 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The latest episode of the Irish History Podcast discusses child abuse in Ireland. About 8 minutes & 30 seconds in, they bring up the derailment of a Department of Education survey on sexual abuse by ultra-conservative Catholic activists Christina Bhean Ui Chribin and Una Bhean Ui Mhathuna, as they took out a court order in January 1982 to stop the survey dead in its tracks.

    Some of you may know Ui Chribin for supporting the "mother" responsible for the Roscommon House of Horrors.
    It appears from the link obligingly provided by Cabaal over here that they sought a court order to stop the survey, but failed to get it. I don't know, therefore, whether the survey was in fact derailed.

    (Which is not intended as a defence of them, or an excuse for their activities generally.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,521 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Thought I recognised the name,
    The other "gem" has been a figure against progress in Ireland having been a founding member of Mna na hEireann (c. 1972 – late 1970s) and the Irish Housewives Union (c. 1980 – early 1990s) as well as being active with the Council for Family Rights (1980s), Anti-Abortion Campaign (1983), No Divorce Campaign (1996/97), Friends of Youth Defence (1990s) and Coir (2000s).

    More info about the case here https://comeheretome.com/2012/07/29/una-bean-mhic-mhathuna-40-years-of-reactionary-politics/

    What an awful hateful women,

    Bit surprised she didn't mention the other church i her "We Do Not Want" list, though maybe the "No Divorce" was an elliptical reference.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭learn_more


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Thought I recognised the name,
    The other "gem" has been a figure against progress in Ireland having been a founding member of Mna na hEireann (c. 1972 – late 1970s) and the Irish Housewives Union (c. 1980 – early 1990s) as well as being active with the Council for Family Rights (1980s), Anti-Abortion Campaign (1983), No Divorce Campaign (1996/97), Friends of Youth Defence (1990s) and Coir (2000s).

    More info about the case here https://comeheretome.com/2012/07/29/una-bean-mhic-mhathuna-40-years-of-reactionary-politics/

    What an awful hateful women,

    How extraordinary. What's most amusing is she was a postmaster who went though everyone's mail to infiltrate condoms. How she though as a lay person she could single handedly influence peoples sex lives in her parish , by physically inventing. It's just mind-boggling.

    What this piece of history tells me is one should never underestimate the objectives of the religious zealots. Psychologically , when one has a sense of total righteousness , the only way to proceed is to be hell bent on making sure everyone else agrees with you, whether they want to or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    I recently discovered at interesting little detail about Marcial Maciel, founder of the Legionaries of Christ, pederast and swindler extraordinaire. After his explusion from the Diocesan seminary Veracruz-Jalapa and from four other seminaries, Maciel was ordained after private study under his uncle the bishop of Cuernavaca Francisco María González Arias and was ordained at the age of 24. He formed a little congregation, settling finally on the now infamous name Legionaries of Christ. According to Alejandro Espinosa Alcala, author of El Legionario Maciel, a father of three young boys entrusted to the Legionaries complained that Maciel molested them. Bishop Arias punished Maciel with suspensio a divinis and removed his priestly faculties. There is no record of this penalty even being lifted. Jesuits came to hear of his crimes against novices under the seal of confession, and so sought ways to 'clip his wing.' Given that they could not reveal what they heard in the confessional, Maciel was able brush off the problem as Jesuit jealousy of a new order. How did Rome not hear that a priest seeking the approval of his order (obtained first in 1948 from Pius XII as a diocesan institution and upgraded by Paul VI in 1965 to a congregration of pontifical right)?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,811 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    This seems like a relevant place to post this:
    robindch wrote: »
    Seems that the Vatican is refusing to co-operate with the ongoing Australian commission into child sex abuse and this is causing some within the Aussie government to consider whether the Vatican really needs an Embassy.

    http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4501959/turnbull-government-questioned-over-vatican-ties/


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    This seems like a relevant place to post this:
    Your concern for the plight and suffering of the abused must be commended PP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,811 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Your concern for the plight and suffering of the abused must be commended PP.

    Someone has to make up for your deficit.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Your concern for the plight and suffering of the abused must be commended PP.

    To be fair the lack of Catholic Church members concerned about the plight and suffering sort of shows why it happened in the first place, don't be critical of mother church


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Someone has to make up for your deficit.
    True. You do the political footballing of two men.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Cabaal wrote: »
    To be fair the lack of Catholic Church members concerned about the plight and suffering sort of shows why it happened in the first place, don't be critical of mother church

    In my mind, turning a blind eye borders on complicity but is all too easy to do where other courses of action involve bravery and risk. Wringing of hands and tut-tutting while doing nothing much else is no doubt the next stage, and thanks to technology this has now been automated so that we can have anonymous rants over the internet instead. Plus ça change.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,317 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    These were the 796 children who died at the sold-called "Bon Secours" Tuam Mother and Baby Home

    http://www.thejournal.ie/list-names-tuam-babies-children-3270019-Mar2017/?utm_source=shortlink


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭Morbert


    The Catholic church provided the logistics and capability for committing horrible cruelty like this. But Irish society provided the will.

    I often see this tragedy framed as an evil clerical organisation committing cruelty against women and kids. In reality, society wielded an evil clerical organisation to commit cruelty against women and kids.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Morbert wrote: »
    The Catholic church provided the logistics and capability for committing horrible cruelty like this. But Irish society provided the will.

    I often see this tragedy framed as an evil clerical organisation committing cruelty against women and kids. In reality, society wielded an evil clerical organisation to commit cruelty against women and kids.

    Your not allowed to say that though because it doesn't fit into the preferred narrative. People get awfully upset when you try to point out the facts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Morbert wrote: »
    The Catholic church provided the logistics and capability for committing horrible cruelty like this. But Irish society provided the will.

    I often see this tragedy framed as an evil clerical organisation committing cruelty against women and kids. In reality, society wielded an evil clerical organisation to commit cruelty against women and kids.

    No Morbert ,the eminience grise behind society was the RCC .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭Morbert


    marienbad wrote: »
    No Morbert ,the eminience grise behind society was the RCC .

    Eminience grise?


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