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Feeding fodder beet (without diet feeder)

  • 06-03-2012 3:11pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭


    Im looking at the idea of doubling how many cattle i house each winter for the 2nd winter in a row and also looking at getting my feeding fairly right. Currently i feeding good quality bailed silage and 2kg of meal per head a day and about 20 litres of mollassess (35kg approx) to 17 no weanlings (8-12 months).

    So with maybe 30 in the shed i was thinking of looking at fodder beet and buying it in washed and chopping myself and feeding. (I could get it washed with a friend who has a washer if it came to it)
    • So how much is 1 ton of fodder beet unwashed v washed
    • how much fodder beet would i be giving 1 animal per day
    • If i chopped fodder beet on a saturday in a pile would it be ok for the week or would i need to chop fresh every day or 2?
    • what diet of silage/meat/beet and others would you recommend.
    Oh this would limx and AAX and FRX bulls if i do go ahead with it


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    bump up


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Im looking at the idea of doubling how many cattle i house each winter for the 2nd winter in a row and also looking at getting my feeding fairly right. Currently i feeding good quality bailed silage and 2kg of meal per head a day and about 20 litres of mollassess (35kg approx) to 17 no weanlings (8-12 months).

    So with maybe 30 in the shed i was thinking of looking at fodder beet and buying it in washed and chopping myself and feeding. (I could get it washed with a friend who has a washer if it came to it)
    • So how much is 1 ton of fodder beet unwashed v washed
    • how much fodder beet would i be giving 1 animal per day
    • If i chopped fodder beet on a saturday in a pile would it be ok for the week or would i need to chop fresh every day or 2?
    • what diet of silage/meat/beet and others would you recommend.
    Oh this would limx and AAX and FRX bulls if i do go ahead with it

    Wouldn't recommend too much meat in there anyway:pac:

    Seriously though, would you consider using a 3 pt linkage feeder/chopper. I think abbey used to make them, it had a big auger in the bottom powered by a hydraulic motor?
    Think beet is around 25-30e/ton unwashed.
    1/3 of the dm in the diet can be beet, so depending how big the cattle are around 10-12kg/hd/day I reckon. Maybe someone who actually feeds it could tell you more.
    As for chopping it once a week I reckon it would go mouldy, try get one of those choppers mentioned above, I'll try find a pic. Don't forget extra minerals too.
    http://www.bridgewayengineering.com/products/beet-chopper/

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Wouldn't recommend too much meat in there anyway:pac:

    Seriously though, would you consider using a 3 pt linkage feeder/chopper. I think abbey used to make them, it had a big auger in the bottom powered by a hydraulic motor?
    Think beet is around 25-30e/ton unwashed.
    1/3 of the dm in the diet can be beet, so depending how big the cattle are around 10-12kg/hd/day I reckon. Maybe someone who actually feeds it could tell you more.
    As for chopping it once a week I reckon it would go mouldy, try get one of those choppers mentioned above, I'll try find a pic. Don't forget a extra minerals too.

    beet is around 35 a ton depending on variety and washed and chopped around 45 as washing/chopping is 7e and you will have more beet per ton after washing.

    I have often went to 20kgs and more in a finishing diet

    You could get away with chopping for 3 days or else chop allot of it and pit it and use it as you need it
    Molasses is cheaper than allot of the beet that is for sale with a low DM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    Thanks lads, i was looking at one of those pulpers that hold 200kg and run off the pto on the 3pt like the bridgeway. There about €800. At €495 for 11ton of washed beet, would you have better feeding than 2t of meal for €490?

    I didnt realise there was different type beet, looking on donedeal the only options are washed/unwashed and all seem pulled by an armour machine of some sort. :rolleyes:

    Im complete new to the idea of beet but strongly looking at it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    I didnt realise there was different type beet, looking on donedeal the only options are washed/unwashed and all seem pulled by an armour machine of some sort. :rolleyes:

    You would be an ideal candidate to be selling beet to. I could sell you beet for €20 a ton and for €40 a ton and the stuff at €40 a ton would be much better value. Caveat emptor


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    Now now. ;) . Is the €20 a ton washed and deliveried :D

    The 2 lads i know who feed beet both grow there own, wash it and feed it through a diet feeder. I am going to go ask 1 of them more about the actual beet he uses. ANytime im in his yard its tipped onto a seperate slab.

    Im strongly thinking of feeding it this winter coming and ill try pick up a pulper out of season, so hopefully ill save a few euro and i can plan my silage needs now, not in Sept.


    You would be an ideal candidate to be selling beet to. I could sell you beet for €20 a ton and for €40 a ton and the stuff at €40 a ton would be much better value. Caveat emptor


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    I should start by saying I know nothing about cattle... :D

    Don't know much about beet either - but what would you need to feed along with it, as regards minerals?
    Also, would you need to feed some extra protein (I thnk fodder beet is low in protein is it?)

    It would be interesting to see the sums of a beet + silage diet vs ration + silage diet.

    lakill - have you consider the time element? To prepare & chop the beet vs just putting out some ration?

    I wonder would mixing a ration with a higher % of cheaper materials, such as barley be easier & cheaper? :confused:
    Maybe I'm way off saying that? :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    I should start by saying I know nothing about cattle... :D

    Snap:D

    Well time element is a factor. Switch between bale lifter and pulper and back, plus time to load and wash pulper and to pulp. max 15 mins x 2 a week. I can load beet off the trailer into the pulper or use a digger.

    Ration & Silage v silage and beet price?

    I was going to go with a ration, Silage and beet feed.

    Im new to this concept. Oh feeding molasses is €190 ton or 600litres approx


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit



    max 15 mins...

    I always find that a '5min job' always turns into an hour!:o The OH is always pullin' me on it.

    'I'm off down the farm for an hour'.................. 8hours later.........


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Haven't used beet in about 20 years

    1 thing i would say is that without the right equipment it is pure slavery to deal with

    However it is is a very good feed and cattle really thrive on it


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Snap:D

    Well time element is a factor. Switch between bale lifter and pulper and back, plus time to load and wash pulper and to pulp. max 15 mins x 2 a week. I can load beet off the trailer into the pulper or use a digger.

    Ration & Silage v silage and beet price?

    I was going to go with a ration, Silage and beet feed.

    I'm new to this concept. Oh feeding molasses is €190 ton or 600litres approx

    Interesting comments on previous thread here

    From here
    "As a general guide, 5kg fodder beet can replace 1kg of barley or similar energy dry feed."

    "€495 for 11ton of washed beet" = €45 / ton
    I think rolled barley in my local mill is €4.90 for 20kg, so €49 for the equivalent feed value as beet... (Am sure you would get it cheaper in bulk)
    Plus the cost of buying the pulper + time + diesel on top... doesn't seem worth it to me.
    NOTE : This is assuming you still feed ration on top of the barley / beet, so no extra minerals or anything needed.

    But this is all based on a 10 minute google - maybe that 5 to 1 ratio for barley isnt right?

    There may be additional benefits to feeding beet? Ruemen benefits maybe? But, if you are feeding molasses anyway, then that to me would remove any additional benefits beet may offer...

    That's my two cents... he says, in a very academic way, not knowing anything about cattle... ;)

    EDIT : Actually - rethinking this, you would need to do a lot more work of comparing like with like, down to calorific energy I guess? As was posted above - beet can be 20 - 40 / ton, you'd need to compare what each gives you against grain. So not sure my post is worth anything really... sorry Lakil...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    off course your posting is of benefit. I am just trying to play it out in my own mind. I didnt look at figures or anything yet.

    I only got molasses to encourage the cattle to eat a few 2010 bales. before this it was meal and silage only


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    From test of my beet

    21% Dm and 900cals energy, grain would generally be 85%Dm and 950cals.

    Beet is low in DM this year due to last summers weather, Would have liked to see the DM a point or 2 higher


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    From test of my beet

    21% Dm and 900cals energy, grain would generally be 85%Dm and 950cals.

    Beet is low in DM this year due to last summers weather, Would have liked to see the DM a point or 2 higher

    Sorry now Bob to be asking such basic questions - but what does that mean as regards comparing the two?

    21% vs 85% = 1 : 4
    900 cals vs 950 cals = almost 1 : 1

    :confused::confused::confused:


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    OP don't forget the winter of 2010-11:D:D:D it's HARD to wash beet at -10C, never mind keep the frost from destroying the heap of beet.:(

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    Sorry now Bob to be asking such basic questions - but what does that mean as regards comparing the two?

    21% vs 85% = 1 : 4
    900 cals vs 950 cals = almost 1 : 1

    :confused::confused::confused:

    on a dry matter basis it takes 4 tons of beet to give one ton of grain. And in terms of a dry matter ton beet would have 900 cals and grain would have 950 cals. So give or take 4.25t of beet to one ton of quality barley


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    they dont call it "bother beet" for nothing .that said i grow it most years but always strip graze it


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    with weanlings and finishing cattle in mind...

    the ideal in my eyes is a clamped fodder that requires no mixing with a diet feeder and does not require additonial protien.

    just havn't found it yet:confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭caseman


    Thinking of feeding fodder beet to beef cattle to stretch out silage supplie's.
    It will costing 53 euro a tonne in yard,how dose this compare to 25 to 30 euro a bale,i know nothing about beet.
    any advice welcome.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 saturno80


    hi new to beet my self , buying beet at 40 a ton , 1 km from my yard , have a tanco cleanafeed , feeding for the last 10 days , extra work but saves silage ,back by 30%, not feeding more than 10kgs to store cattle , they seem very contented , if you have a machine to feed the beet not too much work with it .
    also remember that purchased silage is seldom top quilaty ,
    , a farmer near me that always feeds beet reckons that a ton of beet is better than 2 bales of silage ,this man belive me is no fool !
    will keep you posted over the winter .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    According to Teagasc information with barley @200/ton sugar beet is worth 42/ton harvested and fodder beet is worth 34/ton. You can compare after than if barley was costing you 10% more in the yard then beet is worth 46 and 38 each. You also have to factor in handling costs it very easy to barrow a load of barley and spread across silage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭caseman


    i'm already feeding a fairly high level of barley, along with soya hulls and distillers with adlib silage and some straw.
    My thinking was beet might add more to the diet and save silage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Now now. ;) . Is the €20 a ton washed and deliveried :D

    The 2 lads i know who feed beet both grow there own, wash it and feed it through a diet feeder. I am going to go ask 1 of them more about the actual beet he uses. ANytime im in his yard its tipped onto a seperate slab.

    Im strongly thinking of feeding it this winter coming and ill try pick up a pulper out of season, so hopefully ill save a few euro and i can plan my silage needs now, not in Sept.

    Low DM beet has more of the root growing above ground and high DM beet the root is almost completely underground. So if there is a lot of soil on it it more than likely is high DM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    caseman wrote: »
    i'm already feeding a fairly high level of barley, along with soya hulls and distillers with adlib silage and some straw.
    My thinking was beet might add more to the diet and save silage.

    Without pudseys figures myself and the oul fella did a back of the fag box calculation yesterday on it and there's no comparison. Beet is far too expensive. Around here 20t of washed and chopped, which is the only way we could handle it, would cost at least €1000 when our own cost of collecting it a half mile away is factored in. Soya hulls are just over €200 at the mo' we have plenty of straw. So 2 kg of soya hulls plus half to a kilo of straw will easily replace the 10kgs of beet we were thinking of feeding to weanlings for a lot less hassle.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    keep going wrote: »
    they dont call it "bother beet" for nothing .that said i grow it most years but always strip graze it
    How do you graze beet? Do the cattle root up the roots some bit themselves or how does it work? Forgive my ignorance !! The only beet I know is beating teams in hurling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    Without pudseys figures myself and the oul fella did a back of the fag box calculation yesterday on it and there's no comparison. Beet is far too expensive. Around here 20t of washed and chopped, which is the only way we could handle it, would cost at least €1000 when our own cost of collecting it a half mile away is factored in. Soya hulls are just over €200 at the mo' we have plenty of straw. So 2 kg of soya hulls plus half to a kilo of straw will easily replace the 10kgs of beet we were thinking of feeding to weanlings for a lot less hassle.

    One or 2 lads selling some very clean beet close to us, one of the neighbours is firing it infront of the cows using a small chopper, no cleaning etc. I was talking to my dad about if its worth getting, but we have no diet feeder/chopper, and the overall diet protein is low anyways, pulling the handle on the parlour feeders afew extra times is alot less hassle than beet, we'd need to be getting it very cheap.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    caseman wrote: »
    i'm already feeding a fairly high level of barley, along with soya hulls and distillers with adlib silage and some straw.
    My thinking was beet might add more to the diet and save silage.

    I would increase the ration or else add an extra 1-2kgs of soya hulls/citrus> beet is always way over priced and add the hassle of handling it. I know fellow think it add a lot to preformance however it would want to add 50% to it feedvalue to justify iy


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,054 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    When I worked in jersey the farmer I worked for just threw them whole in front of his jersey cows


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    My dad use to do that with our HOs also, they ate them fine he said. That's what had me thinking now about getting beet again.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    nothing to touch sugar beet for performance, just had to add that before more start playing down beet :D. Hoping to get lifting here in the afternoon:)


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