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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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Comments

  • #2642
    Anita M.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Anita M.


    axle108 wrote: »
    Get a grip on this.

    The 2009 Commission on Taxation suggested that houses valued between €150,000 and €300,000 should be levied with a property tax of €563. John Fitzgerald of the Economic and Social Research Institute (the government’s semi-official economic think-tank) has said that the new taxes should be as high as €1300 per annum on the average household.
    page 102 in this thread and it is an interesting page.

    It is an act. If you get the bill send it back unopened and write on the back no contract. get a proof of postage when sending it back.
    If you pay this 100 euro then you have legally entered into a binding contract, forcing you to pay up future payments. That is why this introduction offer is so low,


  • #2643
    The Quadratic Equation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭The Quadratic Equation


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    The first question I ask anyone that says they are not paying is did you vote for fianna fáil? If yes pay up as they caused this mess. Did you vote for fianna gael? If yes pay up as this is how tax get collected when taxes are not raised.

    Don't sicken me with your party politics. All Irish parties are the same, just trying to get their own corrupt cronies in power and sticky fingers in the jampot instead.

    This is about the Irish people standing up for what is right.


  • #2644
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,192 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    The Quadratic Equation wrote: »
    Don't sicken me with your party politics. All Irish parties are the same, just trying to get their own corrupt cronies in power and sticky fingers in the jampot instead.

    This is about the Irish people standing up for what is right.

    It's about people not wanting to pay. That's why FG got into power. SF and ULA are saying they will bring in a wealth tax which is exactly what a property tax is. :rolleyes:


  • #2645
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Anita M. wrote: »
    page 102 in this thread and it is an interesting page.

    It is an act. If you get the bill send it back unopened and write on the back no contract. get a proof of postage when sending it back.
    If you pay this 100 euro then you have legally entered into a binding contract, forcing you to pay up future payments. That is why this introduction offer is so low,

    Great idea from someone on the link on page 103-http://www.facebook.com/#!/permalink...44762212234425

    Have every St Patricks day parade "sabotaged" by an Anti Household Charge float!! - Classic, and beam it around the world!!

    Enda and Phil- wouldnt lil ol Ireland look well then!


  • #2646
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    K-9 wrote: »


    Why it's neccesary to attach a charge? Not a new thing. Debts are attached to property as a matter of routine, moreso these days.

    As I said earlier property taxes have failed here twice and once in the UK. It's not common to levy a tax on your home in most developed countries. England's poll tax is such an example.

    So yeah, it's not a new thing. But its some thing that we can say doesn't work and hasn't worked here.

    If the government want a council tax then let's have it. A properly regulated system where money isn't spent on the black hole of PS pensions and poorly performing systems.

    Without accountability and responsibility this new tax will be seen as a sham by visitors from other countries and act as a barrier to job creation by raising the cost of living for potential employees.

    It's a non runner. It always has been a non runner and until the Government get their shit together and sort themselves out it always will be.


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  • #2647
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    donalg1 wrote: »
    I am not here to convert anyone, I am here to offer my opinion only. I have never once advised anyone to pay it or not to pay it as it is up to them what they do with their own money. I would not for a second tell anyone what to do with their money unlike the anti brigade.

    You offered your opinion but your still here fighting your points across, looks to me like you really want people to pay this tax, why I have no idea.

    Can you not see that your loosing? The majority rules so you can say what you want but people are not going to pay this and its that simple. You go and pay it with your buddies, we will be the ones laughing when your paying a grand next year.

    Donal are you in government?? I find it amazing, your supporting this stupid tax like mad! Get the message people are paying out enough already and everyone knows that this new tax will jump way beyond €2 a week very soon

    By the way Donal I never said people should not pay taxes, this is the reason why you where unable to quote me.

    Anti people well done again, its important that everyone is proactive with this protest make sure you tell everyone your not paying.


  • #2648
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Shush and please don't try patronise me. As I have stated on numerous occasions this thread is about the household charge which is €100 so that is what's being discussed here. So when that changes we will discuss the new levels then as it is quite hard to talk about something when you only have imaginary figures to go on.

    Ok so do you understand? Doubtful that you do but sure hey!!!

    The blindness is unreal

    You still do not get it, we are not fighting this over a po$% €2 charge please get this into your head, we are fighting this law as it will open doors to more taxes and these will rocket to outer space!!

    The household charge is the red flag to the bull this is why it needs to be put down now before the damage is done therefore dont register dont pay!!


  • #2649
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    steve9859 wrote: »
    So are people going to pay this thing or not??

    No Steve, im not anyway and 95% of the country have not paid it yet either, check the polls above and look at the anger in government and public this is causing... so think before you consider signing an agreement that may cost you a substantial amount in the next few years


  • #2650
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    squod wrote: »
    As I said earlier property taxes have failed here twice and once in the UK. It's not common to levy a tax on your home in most developed countries. England's poll tax is such an example.

    So yeah, it's not a new thing. But its some thing that we can say doesn't work and hasn't worked here.


    Property taxes failed because of political opportunism, the exact same thing you are complaining about!

    Sorry for using logic!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #2651
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,192 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    No Steve, im not anyway and 95% of the country have not paid it yet either, check the polls above and look at the anger in government and public this is causing... so think before you consider signing an agreement that may cost you a substantial amount in the next few years

    People are not going to pay straight away. These taxes get paid nearer the time.


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  • #2652
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    Rocket19 wrote: »
    I'm sure plenty of the people who oppose the household tax are not opposing it simply because they can't afford the extra €100.
    Obviously on its own, €100 isn't much, but don't you see that for the mostpart, it's the principle of being forced to contribute money towards something we shouldn't be paying for? I'd like to think that people would oppose this tax regardless of whether they're in a position to afford it or not.

    I'm sure for a lot of people who are already breaking their backs trying to repay debt, look after their familes, send their kids to college, etc, it is highly offensive for some people to imply that everyone can afford it - "sure it's only €2 a week". But I'd say for many, it's just yet another tax that's being added to their burden. Some people budget to fcuk, and they still come up short, so who is anyone to imply that everyone can afford it.

    Not everyone who resents this is being "cheap". The household tax and peoples' opposition to it has (imo) become a microcosm for peoples' feelings about this entire mess and how we're being fcucked., over and over again. What's wrong with taking a stand against that, even if it's just a start??? The actual cheek of people to say "it's only €100". My parents are v. comfortable financially, yet they still oppose it. No-one should be paying this.
    (rant wasn't really directed at you btw!)


    Fantastic I agree 110% it is not €2 a week god sake you will find this on the street in a few days if you look hard! We want of the rollercoaster the ride has been long enough we are sick of it and im sure rocket and I speak on behalf of the majority of the population (the ones that are not afraid to make a stand)

    I have said this over and over again, if the government see that they have not got a chance they will look into alternatives, where there's a will there's a way. Just because there may appear to be an easy solution to something does not make it the right one.


  • #2653
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    People are not going to pay straight away. These taxes get paid nearer the time.

    Not this time!!

    This thing has caused to much outrage, there are professional people many of them who has paid everything all there lives myself included even from financial controllers to post men, they say the same thing "im not paying"

    People who are saying ah we will all end up paying it..... no we wont!!! Look at the water charges? everyone said no there was mass objections to this and the people won!!

    Everyone needs to understand there is power in numbers, the government are people like you and I if we stick and stand together this tax will be abolished and this is a FACT.


  • #2654
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    donalg1 wrote: »
    I am not here to convert anyone, I am here to offer my opinion only. I have never once advised anyone to pay it or not to pay it as it is up to them what they do with their own money. I would not for a second tell anyone what to do with their money unlike the anti brigade.

    You offered your opinion but your still here fighting your points across, looks to me like you really want people to pay this tax, why I have no idea.

    Can you not see that your loosing? The majority rules so you can say what you want but people are not going to pay this and its that simple. You go and pay it with your buddies, we will be the ones laughing when your paying a grand next year.

    Donal are you in government?? I find it amazing, your supporting this stupid tax like mad! Get the message people are paying out enough already and everyone knows that this new tax will jump way beyond €2 a week very soon

    By the way Donal I never said people should not pay taxes, this is the reason why you where unable to quote me.

    Anti people well done again, its important that everyone is proactive with this protest make sure you tell everyone your not paying.


    I couldn't care less if people pay it or not I have only ever said I will pay it because it's the law and I don't feel that I can pick and choose the taxes or charges I pay.

    I may even agree this tax is stupid and there would have been far better ways to raise 160m but unfortunately I can only discuss the household charge as it is now.

    I also fail to see how I could be "losing" as i can't see how there are any winners. Those that pay are down a hundred quid those that don't have a charge registered against their property so everyone loses


  • #2655
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Anita M. wrote: »
    page 102 in this thread and it is an interesting page.

    It is an act. If you get the bill send it back unopened and write on the back no contract. get a proof of postage when sending it back.
    If you pay this 100 euro then you have legally entered into a binding contract, forcing you to pay up future payments. That is why this introduction offer is so low,
    That arguement has been disproved. By all means dont pay if you oppose it, that is your right but the idea thqat only the laws you like apply to you has been disproved here and is not used by the anti-charge protesters.


  • #2656
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    When the household charge is replaced by the property tax and every household has the site valuation I wouldnt imagine the property tax will be self declaration maybe I am wrong but I can see them really chasing people on the property tax more so than the household charge, I think this has been introduced to appease the EU/IMF for now so I would imagine those that dont pay this wont actually end up in court will probably be forgotten about in a couple of years with the introduction of the property tax.


  • #2657
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,031 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Taxes are not optional, so this question is not relevant.


  • #2658
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    Geuze wrote: »
    Taxes are not optional, so this question is not relevant.

    D'oh! You're telling me no one over here or in the rest of the world uses tax avoidance measures?? lol.

    Jaysus people spend half their lives in Portugal and the like just to save a few bob.

    People employ special accountants to avoid taxes.


  • #2659
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,386 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    It's about people not wanting to pay. That's why FG got into power. SF and ULA are saying they will bring in a wealth tax which is exactly what a property tax is. :rolleyes:

    We won't pay that either. We're poor.:rolleyes:


  • #2660
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    Only 75000 have paid - http://www.moneyguideireland.com/how-many-people-have-paid-the-household-charge.html

    Those leaflets should be on the way soon.

    I'm tring to sell my house - so I will be paying to avoid any hassle when (if) I ever sell.


  • #2661
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Ogham wrote: »
    Only 75000 have paid - http://www.moneyguideireland.com/how-many-people-have-paid-the-household-charge.html

    Those leaflets should be on the way soon.

    I'm tring to sell my house - so I will be paying to avoid any hassle when (if) I ever sell.

    A mass leafleting campaign is expected in the first half of February – with a Household Charge leaflet being delivered to every home in Ireland.


    I'll keep a look out for migrant workers being paid below the minimum wage to deliver these leaflets so. We'll see how much respect the government pays to it's own laws!!!


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  • #2662
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    squod wrote: »
    I'll keep a look out for migrant workers being paid below the minimum wage to deliver these leaflets so. We'll see how much respect the government pays to it's own laws!!!

    Chances are they will be delivered by a postman as with most post.


  • #2663
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Chances are they will be delivered by a postman as with most post.

    They're the only ones who know where all the houses are :)


  • #2664
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    a wealth tax which is exactly what a property tax is. :rolleyes:

    Property = wealth.

    Glad to know that Anglo-Irish bank is still worth billions.

    Oh hold on a minute...

    (The genius thinking that generated the property bubble is thus deemed to be the genius means to get us out of recession!)

    And by genius I mean retarded, of course.


  • #2665
    Gophur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    Property is not the same as wealth, if it's mortgaged.

    Equity = wealth


  • #2666
    Anita M.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 260 ✭✭Anita M.


    lividduck wrote: »
    That arguement has been disproved. By all means dont pay if you oppose it, that is your right but the idea thqat only the laws you like apply to you has been disproved here and is not used by the anti-charge protesters.
    in other words you disaprove and so should everyone else? like I stated it is NOT A LAW and you can send the bill back unopened with proof of postage. NO CONTRACT!
    Do not bin the bill as silence is approval. Just send back and openly refuse to contract them.


  • #2667
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,435 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Anita M. wrote: »
    in other words you disaprove and so should everyone else? like I stated it is NOT A LAW and you can send the bill back unopened with proof of postage. NO CONTRACT!
    Do not bin the bill as silence is approval. Just send back and openly refuse to contract them.

    There will be no bill sent out this year. It is a self registration process just like the NPPR (second homes) €200 tax. 340,000 are paying that without getting a bill this last three years and I never heard of any legal challenge to the system. The ones who did not register and pay now owe €2000 rising by €60 every month instead of just paying €600 to date. If any of these owners of multiple properties try to sell the conveyancing process will recover the unpaid charges.


  • #2668
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,331 ✭✭✭bladespin


    How can that be right, how would everyone know about the charge?
    I know it's much hyped but there will always be those with their head in the sand, surely they would have to be notified in some way about this.


  • #2669
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    donalg1 wrote: »
    Chances are they will be delivered by a postman as with most post.
    Ogham wrote: »
    They're the only ones who know where all the houses are :)

    Luckily he was at my local anti-household tax meeting the last night.
    Hi Mick, if you are reading. :D


  • #2670
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Anita M. wrote: »
    in other words you disaprove and so should everyone else? like I stated it is NOT A LAW and you can send the bill back unopened with proof of postage. NO CONTRACT!
    Do not bin the bill as silence is approval. Just send back and openly refuse to contract them.
    First , I do not disapprove, I fully support the right of people to protest. Absolutley, no issue there.
    However, whether you like it or not it IS the law, even those leading the anti property tax campaign accept that it is the law, and no amount of half baked phiosophical sphistry will change that.
    Protest by all means, argue you case (Which has some validity) but depend on sillyness to convince others when you actually have better substantive arguements you can use.


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  • #2671
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,192 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    tayto lover wrote: »
    We won't pay that either. We're poor.:rolleyes:

    That's a subjective view of poverty. People that are actually poor don't own property. People that bought property that they can't afford now are bad financial planners.


This discussion has been closed.
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