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The Metal Detecting Debate. Keep all your MD questions and querys here!

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    Interesting .... but illegal.

    There’s an unbelievable amount of treasure under the ground just waiting to be discovered.

    Throughout history, armies have invaded Ireland and the resulting wars, battles and skirmishes have resulted in countless valuables and the remains of war being scattered on the ground only to disappear below the surface.
    Many old villages/settlements which disapeerd a long time ago, are awaiting to be discovered.


    Would say the owner is contacted


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    Read this it isn't 100% illegal.


    The Law in Ireland
    Here in the Republic of Ireland, the law is quite different. Nobody is allowed to search for archaeological artifacts with a metal detector, unless they have a license from the relevant State body. In practice, only qualified archaeologists are granted such a license. Due to the amount of heritage material which is reputed to have been illegally excavated and sold for profit, sanctions against those who break the Republic's laws are severe: a maximum of five years imprisonment and/or a fine not exceeding £50,000 on indictment.

    Detectorists' Obligations
    Government spokespersons have always assured the Metal Detecting Society of Ireland that it is not the intention of Government to be unreasonable in the treatment of detector hobbyists, provided they do not break the law. This assurance is reflected, to some extent, in the fact that a Garda may seize, without warrant, any detection device being used on or near archaeologically listed areas, but may not do so in any other area. This does not mean, however, that detectors may be used indiscriminately in all areas other than those listed as archaeologically significant; there are many undiscovered archaeological sites, and a detectorist who comes across such a site should report it within the statuary four days, and do nothing to interfere with it. The same requirement of reporting within four days also applies to any individual archaeological object found in the State.

    Advice to Detectorists
    Put simply, archaeology is best left to archaeologists. Hobby detectorists will always have plenty of beaches, parks, swimming areas, and other non-sensitive places to go 'coinshooting'. A responsible attitude must also be taken to the prohibition of detecting 'on', 'near', or 'in the vicinity of' prohibited areas. These terms are not defined in Law, and at a meeting with the Department of Art, Culture and the Gaeltacht, MDSI committee members suggested a 'safety limit' of one half kilometer from the outer boundary of any prohibited area. Department officials stated that they could not accept this as a voluntary code, as the terms 'at, near, or in the vicinity of' could only be properly interpreted in a legal context and on an individual basis.

    The best advice we can give to Irish metal detector users is:

    Do not detect anywhere near archaeological sites.
    Do not detect on anyone's land without permission
    Observe the basic courtesies of the countryside by closing gates and not damaging crops.
    If you find an archaeological object - or site - report it immediately to your local Garda station or to the National Museum of Ireland. Phone 1890 MUSEUM (1890 - 687386)
    If you are uncertain of the area you want to detect, contact your local Garda station for advice.
    For More Information...
    Relevant literature on the subject is the National Monuments Act of 1930, and the amendments to it in 1954, 1987, and 1994. Copies of these documents are available from the Government Publications Office in Molesworth St, Dublin 2.


    So you think it is still illegal???


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    We have had a discussion on this and i really dont want to get into it.

    Metal detecting to find "treasure" on archaeological sites not currently afforded archaeological protection with the purpose of finding archaeological objects.

    Perhaps you should confine yourself to the beach and the park?


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    In my city there is a lot of land away from any castles and monasteries.
    Now it' is green passture and maybe after 2 years there will stand buldings.
    I think there can be a lot of coins and others and everything
    will be destroyed.You know those finds are part of history of this city.
    I can't look at this, archeologists havent enought people
    to check everything.
    Can I use metal detector around old houses from XX?

    What kind of coins I can keep?
    Coins and artefacts after 1800 can I keep or not?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    Jakub25 wrote: »
    In my city there is a lot of land away from any castles and monasteries.
    Now it' is green passture and maybe after 2 years there will stand buldings.
    I think there can be a lot of coins and others and everything
    will be destroyed.

    There is alot more archaeology in this country than just that close to castles and monastaries. If there is construction taking place archaeologists will have moved in and inspected the area to begin with so it wont be lost or destroyed.
    Jakub25 wrote: »
    I can't look at this, archeologists havent enought people
    to check everything.

    Are you qualified to examine and conserve artefacts that come out of the ground and then hand them over to the museum or keep the collection private?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    Grimes wrote: »
    Are you qualified to examine and conserve artefacts that come out of the ground and then hand them over to the museum or keep the collection private?

    Yes, I will give back to museum everything what I will find
    in Ireland.I thinking about this course under but I'm not sure
    maybe it is only for archeologists.

    http://www.earthsound.ie/


  • Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭PJW


    Grimes wrote: »
    There is alot more archaeology in this country than just that close to castles and monastaries. If there is construction taking place archaeologists will have moved in and inspected the area to begin with so it wont be lost or destroyed.

    Archaeologists are bound to produce a report for planning purposes where construction will take place in a archaeloly sensitive area, in most cases this is just a paper exercise.

    e.g. 18mths ago in the centre of Dublin on a one arce site close to Chrischurch an Archaeologists was required to produce a report, this entailed 2 No. 5M slit trenches been dug by the builder. The Archaeologists spent the morning in the two holes and determined the site was good to go.

    Throughout the course of constructing the basement / piles, alot of pottery and some coins where un-earthed by workers, if the site was metal detected prior to works I'm sure a lot more could have been found.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭Nebit


    PJW wrote: »
    Archaeologists are bound to produce a report for planning purposes where construction will take place in a archaeloly sensitive area, in most cases this is just a paper exercise.

    e.g. 18mths ago in the centre of Dublin on a one arce site close to Chrischurch an Archaeologists was required to produce a report, this entailed 2 No. 5M slit trenches been dug by the builder. The Archaeologists spent the morning in the two holes and determined the site was good to go.

    Throughout the course of constructing the basement / piles, alot of pottery and some coins where un-earthed by workers, if the site was metal detected prior to works I'm sure a lot more could have been found.


    Correct me if i'm wrong but archaeologists can use metal detectors on a site under investigation if they want to.
    Thus it was the site coordinators fault for not doing so.
    It has nothing to do with if metal detectors are made legal for public use.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Metal dectors are used on some Irish excavations when deemed to be necessary. Woodstown in Co. Waterford is one notable site were they were used with success. However their are alot of problems associated with their use. There is a very real danger of metal detectors be used to compensate for poor recognition and understanding of a sites soil stratigraphy. They simply aren't necessary on most sites.


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    robp wrote: »
    Metal dectors are used on some Irish excavations when deemed to be necessary.

    That's wrong thinking Metal dectors should be used on every field, passture
    and others sites where will stands new bulidngs.
    Those sites should be checked perfect to prevent loosing artefacts.
    In Poland was site close to old church
    in center of city and after diging they took groun somewhere.
    After this some metal detectorists
    go to place where that soil was and checked that.
    They found something about 100medieval coins
    and they give those coins back to museum.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    PJW wrote: »
    I'd say alot more coins would be found if metal detecting was allowed in ireland...this was an organised hunt so it would be simple to have a member of the nat museme in attandance to record finds.

    You see some people are trying to organising people.
    First irish metal detecting site will be probably closed.

    http://whois.domaintools.com/md-ireland.com

    We can't change 1987rules only ouer goverment can do that.
    In my opinion every bigger city should have metal detectorist club
    and this club should coperate with archeologists.
    License for using metal detector should be avalible for normal person,
    after finishing some kind of training.You know conserve artefacts,
    putting finds places to the map and others useful skills.
    This will stop losing Archaeological context.


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    In ireland is a lot of metal detecorists hobbysts.

    http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=102268.new


  • Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭PJW


    Nebit wrote: »
    Correct me if i'm wrong but archaeologists can use metal detectors on a site under investigation if they want to.
    Thus it was the site coordinators fault for not doing so.
    It has nothing to do with if metal detectors are made legal for public use.

    Of course they can use them IF they want to but in many instanances they dont bother, why I dont know....( ) but for the planning site investigations I've withnessed over the years the Archaeologists are only interested in the trenches they've requested to be opened by the builder.

    .....( I'll take a guess, the archaeologists probably feel that the planning inforcement is a pain in the neck and its not deemed to be "real archaeology" or sure the developer will get planning in the end and place a concrete slab over the site, or piff I would'nt touch a metal detector if bla bla bla,


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    There will be no co-opperation as detactorists do not seem to grasp the concept of stratigraphy and contextualisation coupled with the fact that they do not seem to grasp the notion that they are damaging a site by removing metalic features. Sigh. However the practice of treasure hunting is widespread in Ireland.

    It may progress to the english situation where NMI are forced to set up shop close to lines of people doing systamatic MD scans of the landscape requesting that people please come and show what they have taken so it can at least be documented.

    There is alot more to archaeology than shiny things, hence the reason when they are rarely used.

    The ignorance of people on that treasurenet forum is amazing.Ive seen more logical debates on stormfront


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    Please, don't delete those quotations.
    I have took them from.

    http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,80025.0/prev_next,prev.html#new

    I love the bit where they say you´re destroying the finds situation by removing objects in the first 12 inches, then come along with a bulldozer, and remove the top 40 inches before they start.


    Tony Robinson say´s we´re taking the history out of context when we remove objects in the first 30 cms (12 inches) of ground, but then he and his Time T*ts come along with a JCB or Catapillar, and remove 3 to 6 feet before they start searching at all. Last time a gold coin was found (The best thing ever found by TT according to Robinson), but it was found by a local´detectorist, searching the spoil of the 6 feet deep hole that hab been removed by TT, not found by anyone from TT themselves.

    yep i hear ya,,, i forgot that gold coin was found, yes i remember now... all they actually found was how the walls actually met up or dident, ie the layout of roman villas or pottery,,, and he was running around like a little kid all excited over a new trench going in lol Smiley.

    they should make a series using a few detectorists on how they do it and what they do when they report the find to the local liason officer and do it properly and show that its then and only then that the archies get to know and they get there chance at it,, it would show that it is the m-d-er that actually finds the place and goods, and if it wasent for us they would find hardly jack sh*t and jack left town..... Grin

    Yep...If i discover something fantastic there isn't a chance I'm going to damage it in any way,but if the "Govt" doesn't provide some recognition and fair compensation well there is no way I'm going to run and give it to them so they can shrug their shoulders and file it away in some museum's basement never to see the light of day.Professional looters are one thing but a lone detectorist who uncovers some lost artifact and gets a chill up their spine at the history and craftsmanship, I feel has as much right to ownership of that object as anyone.

    Well, put it this way, Able_walker. If a MD'er or anybody for that reason, finds a chalice/treasure or something of great historical significance, if the law was there to compensate them of 50% of it's worth, give them the appropriate recognition and display the treasure for all of the world to admire in a museum, it's a hell of a lot better than hiding it under the bed or God forbid becoming one of those #@!$%#@!s on Ebay that sell their countries heritage to the highest bidder.


    One of the biggest problems too, is that an MD´er finds something, but then when it´s given to the Archies, it´s them that´s suddenly found it, no mention of the MD´er :-(

    It´s the same in a lot of Bundesländer (Counties) here in Germany, You find it, they take it, they get the fame, and you get a fine !!

    If it so illegal to own/buy/use a metal detector in this great land of ours,then why is LEGAL for company's like ARGOS,MAPLINS to sell them in ireland,check out the new catalouge from argos,page 1473....also they seem to be showing kids how to break the law too on page 1646....surely there is some kind of mix up with the laws here....please reply with any thoughts on this .....mick

    Let's see how many people there are interested in starting a club? A website can be easily set up..Think I am kinda handy with that, and see what we can achieve by talking to the museum and other sources. Like where I come from (Holland) we had a farely descent arrangement with the local Historians and the head office for archaeology. We could keep anything we found (unless it was of major historical importance) but we had to have everything checked/registered and logged. Which was not a bad deal.
    If there are more people interested please let us know and see if we can start Ireland first (legal) MD club and do a test run in Navan..Which sounds like a nice idea!!

    hi
    i live in ireland.5 years ago i found a artifact of sorts with my md.i held on to it for 5 years because i was afraid to get into trouble by handing it up.then i sent a message to the dublin history museum.a women got back to me she seemed pleasent enough,she arranged for us to meet .when i met all she did was give me a bollocking for useing a md.she said you can not use them anywhere in ireland.she wasnt that interested about the find or where exactly i had found it.now she has all my details address and stuff.i am very bitter about that.our gorvernment destroys more archaeological sites every year bloody year,waterford viking site hill of tara ect.

    So, you see what is the situation.
    Most of them would like to give all artefacts back,
    but they can get a fine or go to jail.
    Destroing heritage, archeologists do the same when they
    checking land for buldings and do maybe 2 holes
    with not checking everything perfect.
    Usually artefacts are on the top of the soil.

    PJW wrote: »
    Archaeologists are bound to produce a report for planning purposes where construction will take place in a archaeloly sensitive area, in most cases this is just a paper exercise.

    e.g. 18mths ago in the centre of Dublin on a one arce site close to Chrischurch an Archaeologists was required to produce a report, this entailed 2 No. 5M slit trenches been dug by the builder. The Archaeologists spent the morning in the two holes and determined the site was good to go.

    Throughout the course of constructing the basement / piles, alot of pottery and some coins where un-earthed by workers, if the site was metal detected prior to works I'm sure a lot more could have been found.

    If you will invite metal detectorists to the land what was checked by archeologist.
    You can save a lot of artefacts.



    Grimes wrote: »
    The ignorance of people on that treasurenet forum is amazing.Ive seen more logical debates on stormfront

    I think the bigger problem is disregarding all of the people who are using metal detectors.
    Grimes in Ireland is maybe 1000 people who are using metal detectors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,901 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    Are you an archaeologist? I'm assuming you are not as your discussion here is based on the (IMO) opinions of people who have no actual understanding of Irish archaeology, therefore disregarding the very simple reasons put forward against the use of metal detecting in this country by those perhaps better qualified to make these decisions. That you do not like or agree with that is fine, but coming on here and saying that 'most artefacts found etc etc' would be handed in is nonsense. As for your refusal to even acknowledge the simplicity of maintaining the stratigraphy, context and integrity of a site until such a time as scientific assessment and excavation may take place also reveals your interest in the 'artefacts' only and not its archaeological context.


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    Are you an archaeologist?

    I'm not, but my knowledge in this subject is bigger
    than normal person.
    I'm assuming you are not as your discussion here is based on the (IMO) opinions of people who have no actual understanding of Irish archaeology, therefore disregarding the very simple reasons put forward against the use of metal detecting in this country by those perhaps better qualified to make these decisions.

    I thinkin that some normal people (after training course)

    http://www.earthsound.ie/geochemical.html

    should be allowed to use metal detectors on the arable field away from monuments but it need to change the LAW
    because in fact it's impossible to get license for using MD.
    There is new NMI legislation being drafted.

    As for your refusal to even acknowledge the simplicity of maintaining the stratigraphy, context and integrity of a site until such a time as scientific assessment and excavation may take place also reveals your interest in the 'artefacts' only and not its archaeological context.

    Don't worry.
    I will write a lot more about this.
    I don't wont to disgrace others educated Archeologists.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    Garrett Ace 250 ftw


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    Just so you are aware, archaeologists dont just go down to the licence shop and put a hole in the ground. There are serious regulations to allow an excavation to take place and even more licences for the use of GRP and Metal Detecting equipment to be used.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭Nebit


    i know the point that your trying to make jakub25. And yes using metal detectors may mean that we find metallic artifacts such as coins etc, but the point we're trying to make is that for you to say yes this is an archaeological site (and not just some miss placed camping hook etc) you would need to dig it up and provide this evidence.
    Even if you turn it into the museum, in some sence it would only be half a find because as archaeologists we look at contexts, soils etc, which provides alot of useful information and a better way of dating artifacts. when you dig this up you aren't recording these and so it is lost forever.
    thats the point i think we're trying to make.

    for example recently i was on a dig with UCD and our job was to excavate a charcoal-making platform and although we found metallic objects what we were interested in was the soil contexts etc as this provided the evidence we needed to say that yes this is what happened here.

    am i making sence lol:confused::)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    Nebit wrote: »
    i know the point that your trying to make jakub25. And yes using metal detectors may mean that we find metallic artifacts such as coins etc, but the point we're trying to make is that for you to say yes this is an archaeological site (and not just some miss placed camping hook etc) you would need to dig it up and provide this evidence.
    Even if you turn it into the museum, in some sence it would only be half a find because as archaeologists we look at contexts, soils etc, which provides alot of useful information and a better way of dating artifacts. when you dig this up you aren't recording these and so it is lost forever.
    thats the point i think we're trying to make.


    Ok, but look at this there is more than 10.000 artefact all founded
    on fields(agriculture), pastures by people who were using MD.
    So many artefcts with no context and it is legal.

    http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/index.php

    I will ask now.Where is Irish database?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b_klOB8cro

    Is this item nothing worth for archeologists
    only because a old woman find this.
    In GB not.

    Illegal is also using a MD for finding gold nuggets.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/DesDunne1#play/all/uploads-all/2/OpOCm5XUmwA


    What is my point.You see 1987 rules are to prevent destroing
    archeological sites etc, but is this realy work?
    People are using MD enyway.
    How you can stop persons
    who are using MD at Fields, Passtures?



    Tighter controls on the users of metal detectors in Ireland.
    Yes it is very simple solution.
    It realy work in Poland, police looking in internet
    for persons who are selling artefacts and they came to home.
    Advertising of MD is legal but using not, only archeologists can use
    (same situation what here is)
    A lot of MD people something about 50.000.
    A lot of websites. Very more than here in Ireland.
    Now archeologists think nobady isnt coming to as with pots of gold
    why because people hidding finds in homes (neighbour)
    and weiting for legalization.


    Maybe somebady already find a big treaure in Ireland.
    So he will be judged, so who will came to you?

    Or maybe Englih solution?
    But then you will have a lot of items with no archeological context, etc.



    Sorry for my english.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭Nebit


    Its not that archaeologists aren't excited about things that people find with a MD, if you came into the museum tomorrow and said look i found a early medieval pin etc we would be very excited and it would be examined etc but half the information would be lost. because when we bag finds we need to know the exact area it was found for the records (so in the future we may excavate) and at what level it was found etc also the context can tell us more about the artifact than the object itself can, for example if we excavated the area and took contexts, soil examples etc we might discover that this pin was found in a man-made ditch next to a house etc which at the time people may have felt it was a form of protection to bury items or bones of ancestors next to the house.

    we don't just look at cool items, we theorise how people lived and why they lived like that etc
    I'm only a student of archaeology but for all my essays we talk only of how people lived and use artifacts as backup for this. context and soils etc is necessary for this.

    when you dig items up like that women in the video you destroy the statigraphy, you may think oh it was only a small hole but there could have been a post hole there etc you never know and when people dig these items up we will never know
    also the women could go out the next day and if there are no specific features to show where she found the item, like by a tree etc and your just looking in a bare field, your basically guessing where you found it.

    Most of Ireland's good archaeological finds are actually in British museums or in peoples private collections due to a lack of legislation from previous years, and there is a serious lack of information about irelands past due to this (written sources such as the annals must be taken with a pinch of salt as many can be biased or over exsagerated)
    thus we have this legislation to prevent artifacts being taken from their contexts so that we may properly excavate and gain much needed information. yes you could say we wouldn't have found it without the help of your MD but ultimatly if u dig it up and it has no context its like u never found it because you could forget where you found it whithin a field etc and it wouldn't hold up if we were to seek a license.

    again someone correct me if im wrong:confused::) i am only a student however great enphasis is put on context


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    Nebit wrote: »
    i know the point that your trying to make jakub25. And yes using metal detectors may mean that we find metallic artifacts such as coins etc, but the point we're trying to make is that for you to say yes this is an archaeological site (and not just some miss placed camping hook etc) you would need to dig it up and provide this evidence.
    Even if you turn it into the museum, in some sence it would only be half a find because as archaeologists we look at contexts, soils etc, which provides alot of useful information and a better way of dating artifacts. when you dig this up you aren't recording these and so it is lost forever.
    thats the point i think we're trying to make.

    for example recently i was on a dig with UCD and our job was to excavate a charcoal-making platform and although we found metallic objects what we were interested in was the soil contexts etc as this provided the evidence we needed to say that yes this is what happened here.

    am i making sence lol:confused::)

    as far as i am aware most MDers only metal detect the top 6inches or so


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    Nebit wrote: »
    Thus we have this legislation to prevent artifacts being taken from their contexts so that we may properly excavate and gain much needed information. yes you could say we wouldn't have found it without the help of your MD but ultimatly if u dig it up and it has no context its like u never found it because you could forget where you found it whithin a field etc and it wouldn't hold up if we were to seek a license.

    again someone correct me if im wrong:confused::) i am only a student however great enphasis is put on context

    I know that you doing a lot of important work, all this for keeping more
    information about leaving in the past.

    Could you tell me is the soil contex still after this?

    Cultivating of soil.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4jWn-yhdSM&feature=related

    60cm of deep ploughing at top of soil.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGkOjqnWICc


    Every year machines are getting better.

    Here is also some informations.
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In the context of metal detecting, the ‘archaeological pool’ is the body of small man-made items in the ground, which have been lost, discarded or buried. Some of them have the potential to add to our knowledge of the past, but while they remain undiscovered they contribute nothing. It is only when they are recovered, whether by metal detectorists, archaeologists or members of the general public, that they provide any information at all. However, the great majority of items in this pool will only ever be discovered as a result of metal detectorists pursuing their hobby. Furthermore, while they remain in the ground they are exposed to a very severe risk of destruction. The emotive phrase, ‘depleting the archaeological pool’, is therefore entirely misleading, because it implies a net loss to our knowledge, as opposed to a net gain. Far from taking anything away, detectorists are adding to our knowledge by discovering and recording material that otherwise would have been lost forever. In fact, the reality of the situation is far better expressed, if the negative and propagandist, ‘depleting the archaeological pool’, is replaced with the more meaningful, ‘rescuing our material heritage’.[/FONT]


    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The vast majority of metallic objects that remain in the ground are condemned to certain destruction as a result of the intensive agricultural practices and land development that are associated with modern living. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Agrochemicals, for example, will completely destroy a base-metal object within a few years of being in the ground. Many ancient coins and artefacts will have survived in good condition in the soil for nearly two millennia, only to be completely destroyed in the last fifty years.[/FONT]


    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Chemicals, however, are not the only threat faced by objects in the ground. The mechanisation of almost every aspect of agriculture makes long-term survival of any object within ploughsoil virtually impossible. Pre-historic stone implements and metallic objects are equally vulnerable. Even the smallest and lightest of items are cut to pieces, and any information they might have yielded is lost forever.[/FONT]



    Nebit wrote: »
    It has no context its like u never found it because you could forget where you found it whithin a field etc


    I can use GPS systm and put it into map.


    PJW wrote: »
    Archaeologists are bound to produce a report for planning purposes where construction will take place in a archaeloly sensitive area, in most cases this is just a paper exercise.

    e.g. 18mths ago in the centre of Dublin on a one arce site close to Chrischurch an Archaeologists was required to produce a report, this entailed 2 No. 5M slit trenches been dug by the builder. The Archaeologists spent the morning in the two holes and determined the site was good to go.

    Throughout the course of constructing the basement / piles, alot of pottery and some coins where un-earthed by workers, if the site was metal detected prior to works I'm sure a lot more could have been found.


    What kind of institution can help to prevent those situations.




    What you think about all of this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭Nebit


    Jakub25 wrote: »
    I know that you doing a lot of important work, all this for keeping more
    information about leaving in the past.

    Could you tell me is the soil contex still after this?

    Cultivating of soil.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4jWn-yhdSM&feature=related

    60cm of deep ploughing at top of soil.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGkOjqnWICc


    Every year machines are getting better.

    Here is also some informations.









    I can use GPS systm and put it into map.






    What kind of institution can help to prevent those situations.




    What you think about all of this?

    when you find an artefact you don't just mark where you found it on a GPS, you must take soil contexts, the soil above, the soil below, the consistency of the soil, etc in fact after i found my first artefact on an excavation it took nearly 40minutes to regester it in ideal conditions.

    Also if MDing was mad legal, where you may map it, most will not and there will be a influx of treasure hunters, something we don't need again.
    you missed that point in my last message.

    most of irelands archaeology that has been dug up, has been disgarded, melted down or snatched up by the british museum, we have little and need to preserve what we do have for excavation.

    harvestors have dug up irish archaeology before (especially in bogs) but upon doing this it undergoes an achaeological investigation.
    it is unfortunate but we need them to harvest our food lol so we get on with it whereas MDing is not essential and can help preserve sites and its stratigraphy and contexts.

    also the information you provided was from the UK DFD, which i believe is frouned upon by many archaeologists, and i think non government funded because of this


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    How it could happen that in 1997 english goverment accepted
    friendly law.England country with very very rich history
    (roman empire, colonial empire etc)
    Now they have lots lots of artefacts with no contex
    and some on the ebay.

    Why they had do that?

    Here most of artefact is under new houses.Do they have contex?
    (I'm talking about artefacts what could be founded with using MD)
    Was big bulding boom here in Ireland.
    It was impossible to check all of allotments.
    Constructions must go on quickly.

    In fact how many archeologists use MD in Ireland? 10?

    What is better to have artefact with a half of contex or to have
    artefact under new house?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭Nebit


    i've already stated to you that Britain has alot of artefacts, and other archaeological evidence, and Ireland has very few, so much so that we have to compare many sites to that in britain instead of ireland.
    thus the ban and need for proper excavation.
    Britain in a sense can afford to lose it. < i dislike saying that but in comparison to ireland they can.

    also archaeologists don't use them alot because as i previously stated, they are'nt accurate enough and do not hold up when applying for a licence to excavate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭Reoil


    Another fine example of why metal detectors should be encouraged.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/8272058.stm
    BBC wrote:
    The UK's largest haul of Anglo-Saxon gold has been discovered buried beneath a field in Staffordshire.
    Experts said the collection of 1,500 pieces, which may date back to the 7th Century, was unparalleled in size.
    Dr Kevin Leahy, who has been cataloguing the find for the Portable Antiquities Scheme, said archaeologists had been "awestruck" by its quality.
    Terry Herbert, who found it on farmland using a metal detector, said it "was what metal detectorists dream of".
    It may take more than a year for the gold, which is expected to be classed by a coroner as treasure later, to be valued.

    The collection contains about 5kg of gold and 2.5kg of silver, making it far bigger than the Sutton Hoo discovery in 1939 when 1.5kg of Anglo-Saxon gold was found near Woodbridge in Suffolk.
    Leslie Webster, former keeper at the British Museum's Department of Prehistory and Europe, said: "This is going to alter our perceptions of Anglo-Saxon England as radically, if not more so, as the Sutton Hoo discoveries.
    "(It is) absolutely the equivalent of finding a new Lindisfarne Gospels or Book of Kells."

    'Absolutely phenomenal'
    Mr Herbert, 55, of Burntwood in Staffordshire, who has been metal detecting for 18 years, came across the hoard as he searched land belonging to a farmer friend. The exact location has not been disclosed.
    "I have this phrase that I say sometimes; 'spirits of yesteryear take me where the coins appear', but on that day I changed coins to gold," he said.

    "I don't know why I said it that day but I think somebody was listening and directed me to it.
    "This is what metal detectorists dream of, finding stuff like this. But the vast amount there is is just unbelievable."
    Duncan Slarke, finds liaison officer for Staffordshire, was the first professional to see the hoard which contains warfare paraphernalia, including sword pommel caps and hilt plates inlaid with precious stones.
    He said he was "virtually speechless" when he saw the items.
    "Nothing could have prepared me for that," he said.
    "I saw boxes full of gold, items exhibiting the very finest Anglo-Saxon workmanship.
    "This is absolutely phenomenal.
    "It is a hugely important find - the most important one that I have dealt with, but this has got to rank as one of the biggest in the country."

    'Truly remarkable'

    The collection is currently being kept in secure storage at Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery but a selection of the items are to be displayed at the museum from Friday until 13 October.
    A Treasure Valuation Committee made up of independent experts will then value the find.

    Dr Kevin Leahy, who has been cataloguing the find for the Portable Antiquities Scheme, said it was "a truly remarkable collection".
    "All the archaeologists who've worked with it have been awestruck," he added.
    "It's been actually quite scary working on this material to be in the presence of greatness."
    He said the most striking feature of the find was that it was almost totally weapon fittings with no feminine objects such as dress fittings, brooches or pendants.
    "Swords and sword fittings were very important in the Anglo-Saxon period," Dr Leahy added.
    "The Anglo-Saxon poem Beowulf describes after a battle a sword being stripped of its hilt fittings.
    "It looks like a collection of trophies, but it is impossible to say if the hoard was the spoils from a single battle or a long and highly successful military career.
    "We also cannot say who the original, or the final, owners were, who took it from them, why they buried it or when.
    "It will be debated for decades."



    _46431950_gold1.jpg





  • Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭PJW


    Reoil wrote: »
    Another fine example of why metal detectors should be encouraged.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/8272058.stm

    Yes I was just reading a similar article....

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hTZ2Kl2BbtSST6xbEFbjYdLvjIdg

    ... this is a very interesting quote from the Head of Portable Antiquities and Treasure at the British Museum, and this is another reason why ploughed fields, public parks and beaches should be exempt from the act as the soil statigraphy is already destroyed.

    The treasures were found surprisingly close to the surface: some at such a shallow depth that they appeared to have been struck by a plough, in an area about 20 yards (metres) long in a cultivated field.


    "I think what happened was that the plough just nicked the top of the deposit," said Roger Bland, the Head of Portable Antiquities and Treasure at the British Museum.
    "I think if it had come back again the next year we would have seen quite a bit of damage."


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  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Jakub25


    Here some informations, about saxon grave what was finded during weekend wanderers rally in England.


    http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/4641845.West_Hanney_farmer__over_the_moon__at_Saxon_find/

    And a lot lot of romans coins, hammered coins and others artefacts were finded on that 1000acres field.
    There was something about 600people with MD.


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