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some metal im currently working on

  • 26-08-2009 11:54am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭


    band is from newry, called ozzmium. recorded it in the engine room thru the amek rembrandt.

    outboard used:

    1176 silver face
    distressor
    la audio comps
    drawmer 1960
    neve pre

    mics:
    drums - the usual suspects (57, 421, 414 etc)
    rhythm guitars - re27, sm57
    lead guitars - re27, 414
    bass - DI and re-amped (ampeg svx head)
    vox - u87, 414

    this is only the first test mix so any opinions would be nice and appreciated :)

    http://rapidshare.com/files/271703469/PRAY_FOR_REIGN_TEST_MASTER.mp3.html


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 377 ✭✭henessjon


    Lovely original stuff would like to catch them live ???

    I listened thru amp tannoy 5 speakers (not studio mons)

    like a real fan would...

    sounds great

    for my taste drums too far back in mix in relativity to gtrs and vox generally dry.
    these are noticeable at high volumes ok on low volume

    great panning effx on vox


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    henessjon wrote: »
    Lovely original stuff would like to catch them live ???

    I listened thru amp tannoy 5 speakers (not studio mons)

    like a real fan would...

    sounds great

    for my taste drums too far back in mix in relativity to gtrs and vox generally dry.
    these are noticeable at high volumes ok on low volume

    great panning effx on vox

    yeah drums def need to come a little forward but the vox are covered in reverb and delay already!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    Download limit of 10 has been reached :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭tubedude


    Sounds really good, don't know if I agree 'bout the drums though, I think you're on the mark, I know that kinda style and guitars rule, drums get pushed back. There's so many great songs in that genre where the drums are surprisingly low, well snare in particular. but it just works at that level. If I was gonna say anything bout the snare, ...bit bigger maybe, but not louder if ya get me...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭trackmixstudio


    Hi Barry.
    A few things jumped out at me.
    Too much high mids overall making it a bit fatiguing.
    The centre image is weak due to kick and snare too low and lacking depth.
    The main guitars lack clarity. Probably due to the mix of 2 mics causing phase cancellation. I have never been able to get a mix of 2 mics to sound as good as one 57 in the right place. It also sounds like the same amp/mic/pre for left/right. I always use a different guitar, head and mic pre for each side. Usually a Mesa TR and Peavey 6505.a tube screamer REALLY helps too.
    A neumann of any LDC is a no go for metal vox. AN SM7 or 57 or Audix i5 will sound much better and give the vocal more mid range attack.
    If you have the wavs PM and come over and we can do a mix.
    If you have guitar DIs all the better.
    Metal is very different to "normal" recording. I can show you lots of tricks.
    Here is a recent metal mix I did.
    http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/7/1328148/01%20Track%2001.mp3
    Michael


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    cheers michael.. if i had time i definitly would come over but i need this away for the weekend.. next time definitly.

    the guitars were
    jackson thru a triple rectifier and
    prs thru a begura head. unfortunatly we only had 1 cab for the day (a marshell 1960).
    ill probably take out the 2nd mic on each side and see how it sounds with just the re27 or sm57 (maybe 1 on each side? or would i be better sticking to just the 57 (the fact that its the same cab makes me want 2 seperate mics)
    unfotunatly we only have DI's of the lead as we were having a few problems with the supertrue and it affected the routing a little.

    the centre is going to be lifted up today (like i said its only a first mix)

    the harshness definitly needs cleaning up. after resting the ears im especially noticing it when the phaser kicks in on the guitar.. it just seems to sit right on top of the overheads.

    for the vox the neumann was only on the clean vocal with the 414 looking after the screams (with a pad on it) i also have a touch of tube dist on the vocals and i had driven the 1176 down to tape.

    i'll throw up another mix tomorrow when ive worked more on it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭ZV Yoda


    Feckin' hell lads - great thread

    ...there's some amount of engineering/production info in this thread... mic choice, DI vs. mic, panning, EQ... yis have covered all of that in just a handful of posts.

    Would love to hear how the mix progresses DT!


  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭trackmixstudio


    Put an analyzer on the kick and see where the meat and attack are. Hi pass at about 20 then boost the meat (usually about 60-100) and the attack (usually about 5-6k) then pull the mids to hell out between these 2 points.
    Squash to hell with attack set to just slower than where it kills the kick and set release to about a quarter bar. This may seem long but it will really give power to the double kicks.
    Don't boost the highs on the OHs. Instead pull the mids where the snare is in them and hi pass at about 120. Add a sample if possible.
    The snare is tuned way too high (fuppin metal drummers) so not much can be done unless you sample enhance it with a sample with some balls instead of just the attack there now.
    On the main drum buss pull some 200-300 and boost wide at 2k by 2-3db.

    Put a multiband compressor on the guitars and find the mud. It will be an obvious bass ring at about 250-450. Use one band of the MBC on this area and suck it back 5-6db. This will let the kick and bass gtr through the mix. They are buried at the moment. Cut a small hole the the gtrs for the snare.
    Marshall 1960 are not a great cab for modern metal. They have celestion g12s which are very scratchy at 2-5k. If you are doing more metal try and get a celestion v30 cab (mesa, orange, 1960av etc). V30s LOVE metal.

    Push lots of mid on the bass at about 1k. Cut at 90-110 to let the toms and kick through. Boost at about 80 then hi pass at about 20.

    The LDCs are making the vocals too big. As I said earlier a dynamic is much better.
    Try hi passing as high as you can then boost 2-5k on the vox to get them to cut through. You can then lower them to sit better in the mix.

    The problem with mixing metal is that everything has to be loud at the same time resulting in lots of notch eqing to give everything space.
    None of the above may apply depending on the raw tracks but from listening most of it should.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    cheers for the advice michael :cool:

    ill have an update tomorrow hopefully.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 377 ✭✭henessjon


    Hi Barry.
    A few things jumped out at me.
    Too much high mids overall making it a bit fatiguing.
    The centre image is weak due to kick and snare too low and lacking depth.
    The main guitars lack clarity. Probably due to the mix of 2 mics causing phase cancellation. I have never been able to get a mix of 2 mics to sound as good as one 57 in the right place. It also sounds like the same amp/mic/pre for left/right. I always use a different guitar, head and mic pre for each side. Usually a Mesa TR and Peavey 6505.a tube screamer REALLY helps too.
    A neumann of any LDC is a no go for metal vox. AN SM7 or 57 or Audix i5 will sound much better and give the vocal more mid range attack.
    If you have the wavs PM and come over and we can do a mix.
    If you have guitar DIs all the better.
    Metal is very different to "normal" recording. I can show you lots of tricks.
    Here is a recent metal mix I did.
    http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/7/1328148/01%20Track%2001.mp3
    Michael


    the vocals are very similar in a devils way... and chalk and cheese

    but DT is 1st mix

    i wonder can we have a listen to the final mix to compare ... Preetty please to DT

    trackmix great sound- if you enjoy the genre

    Im so far down from reaching these heights its depressin...

    if you ever need a tea boy on an overnighter or weekend I;ll volunteer

    I;ll even switch to logic


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    Reign, Reign go away .... ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭trackmixstudio


    PaulBrewer wrote: »
    Reign, Reign go away .... ;)
    Would the buttheads turn away a metal album if a band wanted to book the studio for a few weeks?.
    I don't think so.
    Metal is a big market with lots of bands willing to spend money on recording.
    A rarity these days.:p

    I'm only winding you up Paul because you always have a go at metal:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    Would the buttheads turn away a metal album if a band wanted to book the studio for a few weeks?.
    I don't think so.
    Metal is a big market with lots of bands willing to spend money on recording.
    A rarity these days.:p

    I'm only winding you up Paul because you always have a go at metal:D

    We would actually !
    Everyman to his own though ....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 377 ✭✭henessjon


    do I smell Musical snobbery

    :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    Does that smell Jon ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    i can understand paul's point of view. you either love metal or hate it. its like any extreme genre of music.

    i was lucky in that i grew up on carcass, death, napalm, terrorizer etc etc but i have a lot of mates who are seriously into their music who cant stand metal.

    each to their own.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 650 ✭✭✭Aridstarling


    Just want to echo the previous sentiment that there is a wealth of info in this thread! I've recently been recording a good bit more metal than I'm at all used to (more of an acoustic guitar guy me) and I'm sure I'll have more to do in the future and I've been finding it a tough style to work in. Some of Mick's tips here have been really eye-opening, keep it all coming lads!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    That's interesting about the amount of metal being recorded.
    Is it the bands are recording more or (Gawd Forbid!) there are more bands or both ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 650 ✭✭✭Aridstarling


    For me its a bit of both. There certainly does seem to be a plethora of young metal bands in my area (the midlands) and they do want to record quite a bit. Might just be a song or three but its something anyway. Getting them in the door is always the problem, such is youth.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    Interesting .

    I don't think there has been one Metal band into Joe's yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭trackmixstudio


    Metal is more of a lifestyle music than most so the bands tend to be more fanatical than your average indie or rock band.
    There has been a big resurgence in the past few years mainly due to the lack of any exciting new types of alternative music coming out. If kids want to be different and part of a scene there isn't much else. There used to be grunge,punk,goth etc but they have all but died out.
    If a metal gig is on there is usually a very good turn out.
    There are more bands recording more. I have done 3 metal albums so far this year and have another 2 booked in before the end of the year.

    I don't think it is snobbery on Paul's part. I won't do singer songwriters or trad or dance because I am not into that music and don't think the artists would get a good result with me. Recording music you don't enjoy is soul destroying unless you have no bookings and the mortgage is due:o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 650 ✭✭✭Aridstarling


    PaulBrewer wrote: »
    Interesting .

    I don't think there has been one Metal band into Joe's yet.

    I charge a little less than Joe...;)

    I'm lucky enough to be able to say I am into metal to an extent, Mastodon ranking among my favourite bands, full stop. Can't say everything is up my alley, but that's natural. From a recording perspective though, its a very steep learning curve coming from what I'm used to recording, more in the singer-songwriter/indie band vein.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 377 ✭✭henessjon


    PaulBrewer wrote: »
    Does that smell Jon ?

    only if you want it to paul....

    metal is a genre to see live not listen to at home lol

    its all in the show

    hairy chests rule
    :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭Anima


    Metal has to be one of my most detested genres. Not only because of the music as such but because of the people that like it. If I had to have a go at why I didn't like the music, the vocals would definitely come in at number one. The complete lack of rhythm would come in a close second. I find that the majority of people that listen to metal have little tolerence to other types of music. That attitude makes my blood ****ing boil to be quite honest. (Basing that on the people I know who like the genre)

    Having said that, I can see the difficulty in mixing and mastering it. I've always had a problem with getting an element in a track that was distorted to sit right and not interfer with everything else. You really have to EQ the balls off something distorted to get it right. Good thread for that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 377 ✭✭henessjon


    Gosh Anima let it out and BREATH 1......2........10

    back to the thread guys

    there are 2 mixes here one in progress and one very shiny fine piece of work, Im waiting to hear the finished work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭dav nagle


    Well done DT very good job. I'll have to have a listen properly in my studio today when I get out of bed. It takes alot of work to control that kind of a mix so well done on that front it has great moments. I really like the chants, they were done really well. The solo is rocking too. The snare sounds a like it has an Ozone Reverb on it but then again I may be wrong. Good work amigo fair play to you.

    granny-with-gun.jpg

    '' Music of the devil ''


  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭trackmixstudio


    Anima wrote: »
    Metal has to be one of my most detested genres. Not only because of the music as such but because of the people that like it. If I had to have a go at why I didn't like the music, the vocals would definitely come in at number one. The complete lack of rhythm would come in a close second. I find that the majority of people that listen to metal have little tolerence to other types of music. That attitude makes my blood ****ing boil to be quite honest. (Basing that on the people I know who like the genre)

    Having said that, I can see the difficulty in mixing and mastering it. I've always had a problem with getting an element in a track that was distorted to sit right and not interfer with everything else. You really have to EQ the balls off something distorted to get it right. Good thread for that.

    Instead of posting a rant at 4am maybe you should get some sleep. You may be less cranky then:p
    Fair point on the vocals. That's an opinion but to say "complete lack of rhythm" is just plain wrong. Good metal has more complex rhythms than other music.
    It is very unusual to hear pop/rock in anything other than 4/4 or 3/4.
    For example:
    http://mog.com/EricS37/blog/38219
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS7CZIJVxFY
    Tool. Dumbass metallers;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    Not only because of the music as such but because of the people that like it

    :eek::eek::eek:

    wow, bit harsh?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    dav nagle wrote: »
    Well done DT very good job. I'll have to have a listen properly in my studio today when I get out of bed. It takes alot of work to control that kind of a mix so well done on that front it has great moments. I really like the chants, they were done really well. The solo is rocking too. The snare sounds a like it has an Ozone Reverb on it but then again I may be wrong. Good work amigo fair play to you.



    '' Music of the devil ''

    cheers dav. snare has a lexcion plate from the pantheon 2 plug. might change it. i just activated the EMT250 demo on the UAD so ill try that but it might be a touch too lush for the style?


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