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A good METAL amp

  • 09-10-2009 5:28pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭


    Hey,

    I dont know anything about amps but am looking to buy something thats more suited to high gain, metal guitar playing, and allot of shredding but with a nice crisp clean sound.

    Whats the difference's between tube amps and valve and other types?

    Im not looking for something to fill the o2 arena, just something big enough to jam in a fairly big open space with little fuzz e.t.c that I can also use with several pedals.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Dangerous Man


    Tube and valve amps are the same thing. It's just a difference of language but essentially comes down to Valve being the British description and Tube being American - tap v faucet. Solid state amps don't contain tubes and use circuitry. Hybrid amps use both. For hi-gain applications you can use any of the above types of amp. Solid state is generally less hassle as you don't have to change tubes although some hold that solid state amps don't provide good sound quality compared to tube amps. The difference between the two tends to be exaggerated however. I'd wager that your average punter in a bar wouldn't know the difference and wouldn't care either. Anyway, what's your budget like and maybe we can help you to narrow your options somewhat? :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭zafo


    For a nice cheap option the Peavey Valveking or Windsor.

    For more expensive a Peavey 6505+ or Laney GH100L.

    All heads there btw.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭artvandulet


    Check out Randall amps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭Paolo_M


    I think you should buy a Diezel VH4, anything else would be a comprimise!! :D
    They're only $4,500. :p
    Seriously have a listen to the clips on the link below, it's the closest I've heard to the tone in my head.
    Anyone fancy going time share on one? :p

    Most of these amps would do though
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=965182&content=music

    If you know what you're doing a Dual Rec can work well and you can get good deals second hand. They need a lot of tweaking though. The gain and tone controls seem to be interactive to me, and the amp falls apart completely with the gain set past mid night.

    IMO Fuzz has no place in metal. A clean boost in front of a moderatley overdriven valve amp sounds focused, tight and aggressive whereas as fuzz and distortion pedals just sound fuzzy and distorted to me. You spend all your time getting your downstrokes and gallops right and it needs to cut through!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭population


    Budget is very important on this, but I have to say (and I am going to get some stick on this;)), for shredding metal high gain stuff on a budget I think some of the Line 6 stuff is great.

    I use a Pod XT Live for all my gigs (one man band doing covers) and just route it into a personal monitor so I can hear myself better and I think if you are willing to really get into the editing options you can create some great high gain sounds. The pre programmed patches can be a bit horrible and digital sounding so yeah I would very much recommend getting stck into the editing.

    Don't know really what their amps are like bt I believe they did a hybrid with Bogner (who I like a lot) recently. Never heard it though so cannot in confidence recommend it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭Paolo_M


    No stick from me.
    Not so gone on the Line 6 stuff but I have been messing about with some of the PC based amp modelling software packs like Amplitube and ReValver *shock* :eek:.
    They're actually very good IMO, especially with the impulses yokies. Decent tones, the ReValver 5150 is remarkably close to the actual amp tonally. It still doesn't feel like an amp but it's damn good, and I'm preferring it over a real amp turned down to talking volume for home practise.
    The Amplitube Dual Rec and AC30 are also nice but the Marshalls are a bit shocking.
    Some of the AxeFX Ultra stuff is pretty convincing sounding too but I'll be sticking to the real deal for gigging and band rehearsal for now...


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,469 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    Avoid Marshall.

    Not necessarily at all costs, but if you are looking at one, do your research on it first


  • Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Thornography


    Yeh I have a marshall atm, which is ok i guess. MG100DFX. I only use it in my room but find it has to be cranked up high to get a good tone out of it.

    If I were to say a budget of 500euro was set, And would be more inclined to buy second hand, would that be able to help ye suggest something to me?

    As I said, I haven't the first idea about amps and tbh Id walk into a store and just say *heres 500euro, give me an amp that works* but this will be the last amp I ever really wanna invest in to get a truly brutal tone for shredding and especially crisp palm muting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭BSOM


    Yeh I have a marshall atm, which is ok i guess. MG100DFX. I only use it in my room but find it has to be cranked up high to get a good tone out of it.

    If I were to say a budget of 500euro was set, And would be more inclined to buy second hand, would that be able to help ye suggest something to me?

    As I said, I haven't the first idea about amps and tbh Id walk into a store and just say *heres 500euro, give me an amp that works* but this will be the last amp I ever really wanna invest in to get a truly brutal tone for shredding and especially crisp palm muting.

    Check out the new Marshall MA, €599 (RRP) all valve, sounds great. If you are doing metal i would recommmend a good compressor and tight O/D pedal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭Paolo_M


    Yeh I have a marshall atm, which is ok i guess. MG100DFX. I only use it in my room but find it has to be cranked up high to get a good tone out of it.

    If I were to say a budget of 500euro was set, And would be more inclined to buy second hand, would that be able to help ye suggest something to me?

    As I said, I haven't the first idea about amps and tbh Id walk into a store and just say *heres 500euro, give me an amp that works* but this will be the last amp I ever really wanna invest in to get a truly brutal tone for shredding and especially crisp palm muting.

    You'd probably pick up a 5150 combo second for a bit more if you could stretch your budget, though personally I'd change out the speakers.
    Most valve combos are not really suited to full on metal but the 5150 doesn't have the valves suspended in the speaker chamber and sounds great as long as you watch where the gain control is set, 7 is even too much on the red channel.

    Something like the Orange Tiny Terror does pretty convincing metal tones when boosted by the right pedal. You'd pick up the head version and a decent 2 X 12 second hand for that money either.

    For 2 x 12 twelve you'll be wanting closed backed, oversized if possible and loaded with something like a V30 or GK100 for metal. Getting this right is super important for convincing metal sounds.

    The ENGL Screamer might be too far beyond your budget.

    Personally I wouldn't touch the DSL/TSL Marshalls with a 10 foot barge pole, and I doubt you'd pick up a JCM series for that cash + they'd need heavy boosting anyway (but sound f*kin great with a clean boost for metal, if you do feel like splashing the cash!!)

    Maybe some of the lads have more suggestions.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,721 ✭✭✭✭CianRyan


    Metal here!

    Nothing wrong with Marshals for metal, for that kind of money though, forget it.
    You're looking at €800 for a second hand JCM800 head, and that's with out the speakers.
    I picked my latest head for €525, second hand.
    Peavey Triplexxx head, great for metal, hardcore, punk and has some nice clean tones too.
    I actually got very unlucky with my cab lately now, but that's a different story... Had I have been more careful with the money I could have been all in for about €180 on top.

    Tbh, spending €500 on an amp you're going to be using for a few years is a bit mad, imo.
    Stretch your budget just a bit longer and you could have some thing much nicer. That way, you wont look back in two years time and think, "I bloody with I had saved up more."

    So many great deals to be had as lwel.
    Amps just aren't moving these days.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    Yeh I have a marshall atm, which is ok i guess. MG100DFX. I only use it in my room but find it has to be cranked up high to get a good tone out of it.

    If I were to say a budget of 500euro was set, And would be more inclined to buy second hand, would that be able to help ye suggest something to me?

    As I said, I haven't the first idea about amps and tbh Id walk into a store and just say *heres 500euro, give me an amp that works* but this will be the last amp I ever really wanna invest in to get a truly brutal tone for shredding and especially crisp palm muting.

    I'd say you should check out one of the Line6 Spider Valve amps. The Spider Valve 112 is well within your price range.


  • Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Thornography


    I'm using a Boss MT-2 metal zone pedal, NS-2, DS-1 and AC-3 with a cry baby wah atm as my pedals. I would gladly stretch the budget if I knew I would be very happy with the tone and quality of the AMp, But im not going to buy brand new. Thanks for the advise everyone so far :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    I'm using a Boss MT-2 metal zone pedal, NS-2, DS-1 and AC-3 with a cry baby wah atm as my pedals. I would gladly stretch the budget if I knew I would be very happy with the tone and quality of the AMp, But im not going to buy brand new. Thanks for the advise everyone so far :)

    If you're using the MT-2 for distortion, you are way better off ditching it and using the amp's gain for your metal tones, so it's probably best if you get a decent amp capable of some good high gain sounds. And I think at your budget you'd be better off either getting a modeling amp like the Line6.

    But if you wanted to stretch that, you could probably get a used Engl Thunder 50 or Orange Rocker 30 combo for a bit more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ride-the-spiral


    The Spiders are pretty much famous for being crap amps, as are the MGs. I also have the 100dfx and can vouch for that... :(
    Plus if your looking for a good tone with a few pedals or whatever, you don't need a modelling amp to the effects for you.

    I highly recommend stretching your budget. You'll be alot happier in the long run. Also be aware with tube amps that as you raise the volume on them they go into overdrive, so the tone you get at a low volume in your bedroom won't be the same as what you get at high volume.

    You could get an attenuator with that, but that's an extra 300 euro.

    Most people say that tube amps are better than solid states but it all comes down to the amp itself, there are many solid state amps that are better than tube amps for the same price. Avoid "Hybrid" amps too. They only have one valve in the preamp which doesn't affect the sound that much, so it's not going to sound that different to a solid state. Of course these are only "rules of thumb" so try whatever you want buy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭brendansmith


    Dimebag was the ultimate shredder and he used a solidstate randall................................. so there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,721 ✭✭✭✭CianRyan


    He switched to Krank Tube amps before he died.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭brendansmith


    CianRyan wrote: »
    He switched to Krank Tube amps before he died.

    Yes but not on his best work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Demeyes


    If you are serious about getting a good metal tone then you'll probably have to spend a bit more than 500, even going 2nd hand. I'd suggest that if you plan in playing in a band then you'll probably want to go for a head and cab setup, which will be outside your budget.
    There is the Bugera stuff which are cheap tube amps that are less expensive clones of some other companies amp models. These will get you a great metal tone but there has been talk of some reliability issues with them in the past, but these have apparently been rectified. You could even get something within your budget if you go this route.
    You can pick up some nice tube combo's too but most are aimed more towards the classic rock end of things. Laney and Peavey do some nice cheaper tube combos that will probably get you a workable metal tone if you run a pedal in front. Pedalwise I'd recommend something along the lines of an OD or booster as opposed to a distortion pedal like the ones you have. The trick is to push your amp into a more distorted state instead of just using the clean channel and getting all your tone from the pedal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Nahguavkire


    Engl Powerball/ Fireball... Game over, it's the best metal amp by far...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭subzero12


    Engl Powerball/ Fireball... Game over, it's the best metal amp by far...

    ive owned them both and there good amps but honestly they cant beat a 6505+ or a framus cobra with a maxon ts808 infront of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Thornography


    Engl Powerball/ Fireball... Game over, it's the best metal amp by far...

    Iv been looking at these and there defiantly top of my list to look out for.

    But I still think there not metal enough. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Dangerous Man


    I have the ENGL Screamer 50. ENGL does metal, believe me. The bass player from my old band showed up at my house one day with an ESP with EMG pups. For me, a horrible guitar but when he put it through the ENGL on the 'Heavy Lead' channel I was nearly sent through the window. Blazing distortion with practically endless sustain. I'm not a metal player - more of a rock guy but if I wanted metal I know my amp could deliver. In spades.
    I'd love to have the fireball head / cab arrangement actually. Sweet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Thornography


    I have the ENGL Screamer 50. ENGL does metal, believe me. The bass player from my old band showed up at my house one day with an ESP with EMG pups. For me, a horrible guitar but when he put it through the ENGL on the 'Heavy Lead' channel I was nearly sent through the window. Blazing distortion with practically endless sustain. I'm not a metal player - more of a rock guy but if I wanted metal I know my amp could deliver. In spades.
    I'd love to have the fireball head / cab arrangement actually. Sweet.

    X-music doesnt seem to do them :(

    does anyone know where does? and how much ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Dangerous Man


    Here ya go: I got mine from these guys too (also bought the Z5 footswitch a brilliant, but pricey accessory.)


    http://www.thomann.de/ie/engl_screamer_50_roehrencombo_e330.htm?sid=e0eb29cf2c928e26417430e00df1da2f


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    But I still think there not metal enough. :(

    Hah! :pac:

    Honestly, it just doesn't get more Metal than Engl. I'd still say try second hand, you should be able to get a Thunder 50, or maybe Screamer 50. If you're unconvinced that Engl isn't metal enough, take a peek a this:



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Dangerous Man


    Damn... that'll make your eyes water for sure. That kind of music is the reason I don't like metal but by God do I admire players who can do THAT! Amazing playing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭Paolo_M


    Hah! :pac:

    Honestly, it just doesn't get more Metal than Engl. I'd still say try second hand, you should be able to get a Thunder 50, or maybe Screamer 50. If you're unconvinced that Engl isn't metal enough, take a peek a this:


    Demz some metal tonz alright. :D
    Not a big fan of this style of music but the tone is perfect.
    Lots of clear punchy mids, not too much low and not too much gain, which seem to be the common "mistakes" metallers make.
    ENGLs have the perfect sound for what appears to be called "teh brootz", I think that's what the modern kids call the Lamb Of God etc. sound.
    Oh God, I'm so old and out of it :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 stestevens


    Paolo_M wrote: »
    You'd probably pick up a 5150 combo second for a bit more if you could stretch your budget, though personally I'd change out the speakers.
    Most valve combos are not really suited to full on metal but the 5150 doesn't have the valves suspended in the speaker chamber and sounds great as long as you watch where the gain control is set, 7 is even too much on the red channel.

    Something like the Orange Tiny Terror does pretty convincing metal tones when boosted by the right pedal. You'd pick up the head version and a decent 2 X 12 second hand for that money either.

    For 2 x 12 twelve you'll be wanting closed backed, oversized if possible and loaded with something like a V30 or GK100 for metal. Getting this right is super important for convincing metal sounds.

    The ENGL Screamer might be too far beyond your budget.

    Personally I wouldn't touch the DSL/TSL Marshalls with a 10 foot barge pole, and I doubt you'd pick up a JCM series for that cash + they'd need heavy boosting anyway (but sound f*kin great with a clean boost for metal, if you do feel like splashing the cash!!)

    Maybe some of the lads have more suggestions.

    I have a tiny terror and you can get some savage tone out of it for all styles


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭frostie500


    I'd say you should check out one of the Line6 Spider Valve amps. The Spider Valve 112 is well within your price range.

    Great amp and you can generally get them for pretty good value


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