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VRT for travelling spouse

24

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭afishyfish


    trackcar wrote: »
    VRT Manual section 2 (Relief & Exemptions)

    .

    2.2.3.4 Persons employed Outside the State but who return Home at Weekends
    48
    Vehicle Registration Tax
    The exemption granted here differs from that granted in all other areas of temporary exemption in that it is granted [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]on a concessionary basis only [/FONT][/FONT]and is not supported by legislation. Notwithstanding, a person falling into this category may bring into, and use in, the State a qualifying vehicle49 provided:
    [FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings]�� [/FONT][/FONT]the person concerned spends at least four nights per week outside the State on business (occupational ties);
    [FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings]�� [/FONT][/FONT]his/her personal ties remain within the State at all times;
    Application for exemption should be addressed to the HEO at the SCD office nearest to where the applicant resides in the State50. In considering the application the HEO should ensure that the applicant and the vehicle meet the specified eligibility criteria and that satisfactory supporting documentation is produced. S/he should also advise the relevant SCD of the application details, whether granted or not. Where approval is granted a copy of the letter of approval should be sent to the VRT Exemptions Section.


    Thanks Trackcar. I'm following up on this. Have the letter of appeal written already.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 Sean O


    Do you have children?
    When did you get married?
    When did she start her employment in NI?
    What is your tax credit situation regarding marriage?
    How often would she travel to the family home?


  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭afishyfish


    Do you have children? No
    When did you get married? 2009
    When did she start her employment in NI? 2004/2005
    What is your tax credit situation regarding marriage? I am not currently employed. I don't believe tax creditrs come into the equation.
    How often would she travel to the family home? By family home I assume you mean Dublin. 2/3 nights per week.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 Sean O


    afishyfish wrote: »
    Do you have children? No
    When did you get married? 2009
    When did she start her employment in NI? 2004/2005
    What is your tax credit situation regarding marriage? I am not currently employed. I don't believe tax creditrs come into the equation.
    How often would she travel to the family home? By family home I assume you mean Dublin. 2/3 nights per week.

    It would appear that the Customs and the staff in Santry Vehicle Registration Office are 100% correct in their actions. As a State resident your wife is not permitted to drive a non State registered vehicle under any circumstances. Your wife might be entitled to an exemption from paying VRT under the Transfer of Residence provisions if she fulfils the qualifying criteria. She needs to complete a C&E 1077 and produce the necessary supporting documents to the VRO in Santry if she is resident in north Dublin, or Tallaght if she is resident in south Dublin. The form C&E 1077 can be downloaded from the Revenue website at Revenue.ie.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Sean O wrote: »
    As a State resident

    I still fail to see/understand how visiting the Republic 2-3 nights a week could make a citizen of another country who works, lives, pays taxes and was born in said country into a "resident" in the Republic.

    I further fail to understand why the authorities of said foreign country should be ok with suddenly being deprived of the car tax for a car that spends the majority of time in their country just because some other country insists on registering it there.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 4,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shane732


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Marriage comes with certain rights e.g. pooled taxation and certain obligations. You are assumed to have a marital home and this is your normal residence for this kind of thing. Any customs official will reasonably assume that a married couple, not separated, have a main residence of some sort where they spend weekends, Christmas etc. If she had simply not said that she was married but just spending the week in Dublin there would not have a problem at all.

    I think calling them narrow minded is unreasonable, as they have to apply the legislation. If your martial residence is in NI, then you should both drive a NI car, if this is the ROI then you must both drive a ROI car. The other relevant matter is when she moved to Tyrone i.e. after your marriage, or if she always lived there.




    Since there is no VRT in NI and so no revenue to be gained they wouldn't bother. Even if they did take an interest the rules are the same, it is not the time so much as your normal residence.


    Sorry but what??

    If the martial residence is in NI then I don't have to pay Irish VRT sweet!!! So I marry a Northern Irish women (I love the accents anyway so I'm sorted!) and we have our martial home in the North and I'll never have to pay VRT???

    yawn..... :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    Sean O wrote: »
    It would appear that the Customs and the staff in Santry Vehicle Registration Office are 100% correct in their actions. As a State resident your wife is not permitted to drive a non State registered vehicle under any circumstances. ................

    I would respectfully suggest you check the definition of resident before offering such false advice.

    To be resident one must spend 183 days in the State over a 365 day period. 2-3 days per week does not equal 183 days in any year.

    The lady in question is a resident of N Ireland and not the Republic.

    Unfortunately, for her, she has some bureaucratic nonsense to prove this, (all the while the country is littered with obvious non-compliance of the same rule.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭bog master


    afishyfish wrote: »
    Do you have children? No
    When did you get married? 2009
    When did she start her employment in NI? 2004/2005
    What is your tax credit situation regarding marriage? I am not currently employed. I don't believe tax creditrs come into the equation.
    How often would she travel to the family home? By family home I assume you mean Dublin. 2/3 nights per week.


    Bit confused here afishyfish! In your opening post you say the following:


    "Hey all,
    I was hoping to get some advice.
    My wife and I live seperately. I live in Dublin and she lives in Tyrone. We're not seperated but she works there and I work here. It's not ideal but we can't afford for either of us to give up our jobs. They're not easy to come by these days."

    And in the above reply, you say you are not working?




  • Sean O wrote: »
    It would appear that the Customs and the staff in Santry Vehicle Registration Office are 100% correct in their actions. As a State resident your wife is not permitted to drive a non State registered vehicle under any circumstances. Your wife might be entitled to an exemption from paying VRT under the Transfer of Residence provisions if she fulfils the qualifying criteria. She needs to complete a C&E 1077 and produce the necessary supporting documents to the VRO in Santry if she is resident in north Dublin, or Tallaght if she is resident in south Dublin. The form C&E 1077 can be downloaded from the Revenue website at Revenue.ie.

    If you read my post above you will see that she does not qualify for a transfer of residence as she is working and paying tax in NI. You must be moving to permeability live and work in the state.

    If she does not qualify for a transfer of residence she is obviously non-resident so she does not have to pay VRT.

    Also who is to say the marital home is the Dublin residence and not the NI one and as peasant pointed out what do you suggest she tells the NI authorities when they ask her why she is driving an Irish registered car in NI while she is living there.

    Anyone trying to say she has to pay VRT is not actually thinking about the situation atall imo.

    There are people in much less clear cut situations than the op's wife easily availing of the resident <185 days rule to avoid paying vrt.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    he's porb working a bit on the side or w/e

    His job doesn't matter either way.

    His wife was born and still lives in NI full time. End of story. No VRT to pay. If someone you knew came over to visit it you from England for a few weekends a year should they suddenly start paying VRT and taxing their cars over here?

    His wife comes down from the North on weekends. She spends 4 to 5 nights a week in her own home in the North. All she needs is to prove she works and lives in the North. Letter from employer and landlord will be enough. A UK licence would also get you through the checkpoints. Bring the letters to the VRO and speak to a supervisor and inform them.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    Why not arrange it so that the family home is in Tyrone? You just own a house in Dublin to facilitate your work. Show letters addressed to both of ye in the North. Has she a UK license? Is the car taxed in NI?
    Ye could say the Dublin home is a holiday home.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    I would respectfully suggest you check the definition of resident before offering such false advice.

    Good point.
    To be resident one must spend 183 days in the State over a 365 day period. 2-3 days per week does not equal 183 days in any year.

    Then you go on to offer incomplete advice. You might spend 200 days out of the State but still be normally resident here.
    If someone you knew came over to visit it you from England for a few weekends a year should they suddenly start paying VRT and taxing their cars over here?

    No problem at all, unless they marry you. If they do, they simplest thing is not to mention this at checkpoints.

    The OP should be successful under the 2.2.3.4 clause above, good luck with that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    peasant wrote: »
    I still fail to see/understand how visiting the Republic 2-3 nights a week could make a citizen of another country who works, lives, pays taxes and was born in said country into a "resident" in the Republic.

    I further fail to understand why the authorities of said foreign country should be ok with suddenly being deprived of the car tax for a car that spends the majority of time in their country just because some other country insists on registering it there.

    This. Its almost like the VRO are attempting to abduct your wife from her home country. She should report them to the PSNI :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,969 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Sean O wrote: »
    ..blah blah blah....She needs to complete a C&E 1077 and produce the necessary supporting documents to the VRO in Santry if she is resident in north Dublin, or Tallaght if she is resident in south Dublin.
    Which VRO do you 'work' in then? ;)

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,268 ✭✭✭DubTony


    I've read through this and am as confused as a customs official. If a person driving a NI car produces a NI (UK) driver's licence they usually sail through customs checks.

    Is her licence a UK or Rep. of Ireland one? As far as I can see, this question hasn't been answered and could be the simplest explanation of all.

    Is it possible that the customs guys have seen her more often than they believe is acceptable. For example, if she's seen travelling to and from Tyrone 3 times a week (let's say Monday, Wednesday and Thursday) it sure looks like she lives here and works there (or vice versa). I can't understand why she's been targeted if she has a UK licence and only visits at weekends.

    Very strange.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 Sean O


    The lady in question is a State resident. No amount of obfuscation can alter that fact. The vehicle in question is liable to seizure. Offering ill-informed opinions will not alter the legality of the situation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 Sean O


    The licence a person holds does not alter his/her residential status.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Sean O wrote: »
    The lady in question is a State resident.

    No, the lady is married to a state resident.
    That does not automatically make her a resident herself.

    This is a special case and no amount of arguing on the internet is going to solve it.

    The OP and his wife need to sit down with the VRT people and explain their situation and someone with a bit of brain between their ears needs to look beyond the ambiguous letter of the law and apply some common sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Hah ... you think you have it bad in Ireland ...

    Checkout where you can change country by moving your front door ;)

    http://www.flanderstoday.eu/content/borderline-insane

    Having to pay BPM (VRT) when the guy living next door doesn't.

    Or living in the Netherlands, Surrounded by Belgium, which is surrounded by the Netherlands.

    Also be sure to check out crazy map
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=baarle-nassau&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.268266,56.513672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Baarle-Nassau,+North+Brabant,+The+Netherlands&ll=51.448257,4.928495&spn=0.002902,0.006899&z=17


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Good point.



    Then you go on to offer incomplete advice. You might spend 200 days out of the State but still be normally resident here.



    ...................

    Hey, I was off, by a whole 2 days.

    From revenue.ie
    3. What is meant by "State resident" and "non-resident"?

    A "State resident" is a person whose normal residence is in the Republic of Ireland and a "non-resident" is anyone whose normal residence is outside the State. "Normal residence " means the place where a person usually lives (for at least 185 days each year) because of personal or occupational ties.

    If a person's occupational ties are in a different country from his/her personal ties, then the country of personal ties is taken as the normal residence provided the person returns there regularly.

    A person who is normally resident in the State but who lives outside the State primarily for the purpose of attending a school or university is regarded as a State resident.

    Where did your 200 days come from?





    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/vrt2.html


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Hah ... you think you have it bad in Ireland ...

    Checkout where you can change country by moving your front door ;)

    http://www.flanderstoday.eu/content/borderline-insane

    Having to pay BPM (VRT) when the guy living next door doesn't.

    Or living in the Netherlands, Surrounded by Belgium, which is surrounded by the Netherlands.

    Also be sure to check out crazy map
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=baarle-nassau&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.268266,56.513672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Baarle-Nassau,+North+Brabant,+The+Netherlands&ll=51.448257,4.928495&spn=0.002902,0.006899&z=17

    Thats pretty crazy. How did that come about ?




  • Sean O wrote: »
    The lady in question is a State resident. No amount of obfuscation can alter that fact. The vehicle in question is liable to seizure. Offering ill-informed opinions will not alter the legality of the situation.

    Would you please explain to me how someone who lives in NI, pays bills in NI, gets paid sterling and pays their income tax in NI is not a resident of the NI? Visiting Ireland for two days a week does not make you a resident here it make you a visitor.

    There is no way on earth the op's wife is liable for vrt.

    Also you completely ignored a lot of posts which are showing that what your saying is wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Would you please explain to me how someone who lives in NI, pays bills in NI, gets paid sterling and pays their income tax in NI is not a resident of the NI? Visiting Ireland for two days a week does not make you a resident here it make you a visitor.

    There is no way on earth the op's wife is liable for vrt.

    Also you completely ignored a lot of posts which are showing that what your saying is wrong.

    Its gets a little bit more complicated:

    i.e. In my case I was working in Germany with a residence there and a residence in the Netherlands, the laws get quite complicated so I declared by Dutch Residence as Primary and my German as secondary, otherwise the tax office/s decide.

    Where you get paid, pay income tax, pay bills does not dictate where you are resident and there are tax treaties that cover that.

    There was an ECJ case on the matter quite recently:
    http://www.legalfrontiers.ca/2010/03/habitual-residence-in-the-eu/

    If she part owns the house in the Republic and her immediate family live there it could be taken that her primary interest lies in the Republic and not in the North, the burden would be on her to prove that she spends the majority of her time in the North, how you would do that exactly i'm not sure. In my case i did a tax return for each year with a calendar of days I spent in NL and days spent in DE and submitted a bunch of receipts to each of the respective authorities.

    Not really an issue for me anymore since i've moved close to the Border and gotten rid of my Apartment in Germany, so will be paying full German Income Tax/Health Insurance/Social Security/Solidarity fund as a non-resident tax payer.

    Even when we queried the Belastingdienst about declaring our secondary residence in the Netherlands and the Primary in Germany they couldn't give us a clear answer and basically said the rules might be interpreted differently by the Customs border control.

    UK Authorities have recently changed the rules also:
    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/article-14.2.htm

    I'd say her best bet would be to have UK bills, Driving license and a posh accent to avoid having questions asked ;)
    Thats pretty crazy. How did that come about ?
    The region Brabant was the old Kingdom and got Split off into Belgium and The Netherlands (Hence why the Belgians speak Dutch, well they called it Vlaams but really its just Dutch with a few different words (Think Dub English vs Cork English) )

    Dukes of Brabant and the Lords of Breda went mental swapping around bits of land and when they split Brabant they couldn't decide what to do with Baarle, so it became Baarle-Nassau and Baarle-Hertog


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 Sean O


    This lady would, without any doubt, be considered a State resident. She is not entitled to drive a non-State regisrered vehicle in the Republic of Ireland. She would also not be entitled to Temporary Exemption. She has two options. 1) Pay the appropriate VRT or apply for a Transfer of Residence exemption. Form C&E 1077 is a Transfer of Residence application and can be downloaded from the Revenue website at revenue.ie. The law is quit clear and no amount of ill-informed opinions will change it.




  • Sean O wrote: »
    This lady would, without any doubt, be considered a State resident. She is not entitled to drive a non-State regisrered vehicle in the Republic of Ireland. She would also not be entitled to Temporary Exemption. She has two options. 1) Pay the appropriate VRT or apply for a Transfer of Residence exemption. Form C&E 1077 is a Transfer of Residence application and can be downloaded from the Revenue website at revenue.ie. The law is quit clear and no amount of ill-informed opinions will change it.

    And what does she tell the NI authorities when they ask her why is she driving an Irish reg car while living, working and spending most of her time in NI?

    You keep blindly making the same points which leads me to believe you don't know what your talking about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 Sean O


    She would, of course, be permitted to drive her State registered vehicle for work purposes in Northern Ireland. I keep making the same posts because I will not be distracted by people who do not understand the regulations. I know exactly what I am writing about.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Sean O wrote: »
    This lady would, without any doubt, be considered a State resident.

    You are saying she is, but not explaining why..?

    This is what the OP is trying to find out...


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,462 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Sean O wrote: »
    She would, of course, be permitted to drive her State registered vehicle for work purposes in Northern Ireland. I keep making the same posts because I will not be distracted by people who do not understand the regulations. I know exactly what I am writing about.

    how do you figure she's a state resident then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    And what does she tell the NI authorities when they ask her why is she driving an Irish reg car while living, working and spending most of her time in NI?

    You keep blindly making the same points which leads me to believe you don't know what your talking about.

    That her primary residence and Interest is in the Republic and she has a residence in the north for the Purposes of Work.

    Although it would be financially beneficial to do it the other way around.

    Best thing she could do would be consult a tax advisor.

    I do know that there lots of reasons around it, i.e. people exploiting tax benefits between two countries, i.e. Tax Relief on a house via their married partner who is still in that tax system while also claiming a rent relief in another territory, just as an example.

    For example she cannot claim via the Standard PRSI system and should have an E106 card if she is permanently resident in the UK to avail of Health services in the Republic:
    http://www.capitaltaxconsulting.com/faq/social-security/what-is-an-e106/

    I don't think a definite answer is going to come from boards.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Sean O wrote: »
    She would, of course, be permitted to drive her State registered vehicle for work purposes in Northern Ireland. I keep making the same posts because I will not be distracted by people who do not understand the regulations. I know exactly what I am writing about.

    She doesn't just "work" in NI, she bloody well lives there and is a NI citizen.

    Before she married the OP this was a clearcut case. Her driving down to the Republic 2-3 nights a week to visit some man didn't bother anyone, not even the VRT people.
    Now that she married this man she's a resident of the Republic?
    That's balls. The actual situation hasn't changed one bit.

    Regulations need to be flexible sometimes and need to be applied in spirit rather than by the letter.

    But with people like you (supposedly) in charge of applying them there is very little hope of that happening and the case will probably have to go to some EU court or whatever before your ilk see sense.


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