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If Catholic Church had a new leader...

245

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    she would be awesome.. but she wouldn't be a nun, more like wonderwoman in apostolic vestments.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Father Damo


    fcussen wrote: »
    What would this charity work involve? Preaching to the poor that they should accept their lot and not to try to improve their situation because they will be rewarded in the kingdom of heaven?

    What a load of sh1te.
    Denying painkillers to dying people a la Mother Teresa because their suffering and poverty will bring them closer to Jesus?

    Im going to call it here- you made this one up. Reminds me of the singer on Father Ted claiming the church bought up all the potatos during the famine and held onto them for their own use :pac:
    Telling uneducated Africans that AIDS is evil but condoms are worse?

    People in Africa like shagging around without johnnys.

    So do I after too many pints.

    Im not going to blame the pope if I catch nob rot or worse. Why? Because just like most of Africa the words of a holy man in Rome really dont enter my mind ever. Most religious people couldnt give a sh1te what the pope says, let alone promiscous Africans.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭talkinyite


    I'd consider stepping foot into a church if the church was to properly apologise, disconnect itself from material greed (some churches have golden ceilings WTF like?) and pay proper reparations for all the damage that has been caused. I'm agnostic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭EarlERizer


    Buddha!

    Namaste :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 142 ✭✭fcussen



    Im going to call it here- you made this one up. Reminds me of the singer on Father Ted claiming the church bought up all the potatos during the famine and held onto them for their own use :pac:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQ0i3nCx60 (5:30 onwards). It's a testament to amount of uncritical compliment the church is given that people would think I made that up

    http://tiny.cc/6x8gj :
    The biography of Dr Jack Preger (OBE), the Catholic who heads the charity Calcutta Rescue, and who had worked with Mother Teresa before he went on his own, is scathing about Mother's needle-sharing policy:

    Yet if it is medication that they [Nirmal Hriday residents] want, their request is less likely to be favourably received. An inspection of the rules and aims of the order confirms that medical attention to the poor is low on the agenda. The priority is quite clear: the worship of Christ and the propagation of the faith...Certainly no painkillers are administered to patients; belief remains firmly vested in the intervention of the Almighty. And there are examples of medical malpractice at Kalighat that would horrify western observers. For example, needles for injections are simply rinsed in cold water after use and simple passed from one patient to the next. And patients with TB are not isolated, despite the highly contagious nature of the disease. Its spread, it is held, is in His hands...When it came to her own ailing health, Mother Teresa was a little less complacent, and more reluctant to rely on the power of the Spirit alone. She preferred to have the best doctors flown in from overseas, to have a pacemaker fitted by highly skilled heart-surgeons, and recuperate in the post-cardiac care unit at Woodlands nursing home, the most exclusive private clinic in Calcutta, and certainly no Kalighat.9

    People in Africa like shagging around without johnnys.

    So do I after too many pints.
    Im not going to blame the pope if I catch nob rot or worse. Why? Because just like most of Africa the words of a holy man in Rome really dont enter my mind ever. Most religious people couldnt give a sh1te what the pope says, let alone promiscous Africans.

    In parts of Africa, the first time many people ever hear of condoms, it's from a Catholic missionary telling them that they will anger God if they use them
    Preaching to the poor that they should accept their lot and not to try to improve their situation because they will be rewarded in the kingdom of heaven?
    What a load of sh1te.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdYKsiredbM&feature=related - 5:00 onwards


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Apologised unreservedly for the sins perpetrated by members of the Catholic Church in the past and to refuse to offer protection to said parties, help bring them to justice and to bring any future criminals to justice.
    This is the key quote here. The Roman Catholic Church is controlled and runned by criminals. The key to keeping the Roman Catholic Church going is based on corruption and bullsh*tting people. From the covering up of child abuse by the pope to feeding poor people in Africa who are in poverty lies about contraception.


    The pope is the key to all this. For the Church to continue, they need to carry on the way they are doing. The thinking people in society will reject the Roman Catholic Church but they get by OK because sadly there is plenty of people in the world who believe the bullsh*t they spout.


  • Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Tomk1


    Im going to call it here- you made this one up. Reminds me of the singer on Father Ted claiming the church bought up all the potatos during the famine and held onto them for their own use :pac:

    From wiki
    She has also been criticized for her view on suffering. She felt that suffering would bring people closer to Jesus.[78]Sanal Edamaruku, President of Rationalist International, criticised the failure to give painkillers, writing that in her Homes for the Dying, one could "hear the screams of people having maggots tweezered from their open wounds without pain relief. On principle, strong painkillers are even in hard cases not given. According to Mother Teresa's philosophy, it is 'the most beautiful gift for a person that he can participate in the sufferings of Christ'
    www.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa#section_1 (sorry mobile link)
    Just do a bit of research as don't wanna thread-crash, tease spoiler: she didn't really believe in a god.
    ---
    On the topic of population, I'm classed as a member of that cult, my name is being used to prop up their numbers and they refuse to allow me to remove my name from their list of members. Just because one is branded as a child, doesn't mean they own you, that wiki-quote should note: ownership numbers inclusive of 'lost sheep'

    ---
    Back to OP
    Maybe they should follow the likes of HP and IBM and have a female-CEO, for a change, and fix it.

    There are good people in the church, there for the right reasons, just to help people/with their faith, but as with any large unchecked organisation it contains a deep seeded corruption, with a bully-ish mentality to those who what to reform it from within. You often hear the expression 'who polices the police' but never 'who polices the catholic church'

    The only reason I mention the catholic church is because that's the Q form the OP, but equal applies to the other cults


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,955 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Good luck with that idea. The last Pope who talked about Vatican reform lasted just 33 days before his unexplained death. Both Popes since then appear to have got the message.

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



  • Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭AeoNGriM


    krudler wrote: »
    No, because the concept is still batsh1t insane no matter who's calling the shots. The damage has been done and long may it continue.

    So everything in the Universe originating from a tiny, unimaginably dense point which then exploded giving rise to everything we see around us, the galaxies, stars, planets and us is somehow less batsh1t insane then an all powerful deity creating the entire Universe and everything in it, sending his son to Earth to die for our sins so we can join them both in Heaven.

    Sound about the same to me tbh!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    It doesn't matter who the leader is, it's all still a lie.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Doc wrote: »
    What kind of cheese?

    easisingles.

    As someone looking into Catholicism from the outside, I still think that it is at the core of this country. People might not go to mass every Sunday but once a baptism, first communion, confirmation, marriage etc comes around, you can bet your bottom dollar that a heavy majority of people will be off to the RC church.

    Mention the words "orange order" and all the RC-ism comes to the fore in Irish people and they become deeply offended.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    AeoNGriM wrote: »
    So everything in the Universe originating from a tiny, unimaginably dense point which then exploded giving rise to everything we see around us, the galaxies, stars, planets and us is somehow less batsh1t insane then an all powerful deity creating the entire Universe and everything in it, sending his son to Earth to die for our sins so we can join them both in Heaven.

    Sound about the same to me tbh!
    Except theres evidence supporting the big bang theory and none supporting the church.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    AeoNGriM wrote: »
    So everything in the Universe originating from a tiny, unimaginably dense point which then exploded giving rise to everything we see around us, the galaxies, stars, planets and us is somehow less batsh1t insane then an all powerful deity creating the entire Universe and everything in it, sending his son to Earth to die for our sins so we can join them both in Heaven.

    Sound about the same to me tbh!

    If they sound the same to you, then you need to read more. Preferably scientific texts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Doesn't matter who leads it - it's doctrine is still wholly immoral and lacks any evidence that is true or valid. I'll take my chances with reality.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    talkinyite wrote: »
    I'd consider stepping foot into a church

    You'd go if there was a wedding or funeral though


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭talkinyite


    Maybe for a wedding but not a funeral. The only time I ever went to a mass was after my mate had killed himself, the priest said he was going to hell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    AeoNGriM wrote: »
    So everything in the Universe originating from a tiny, unimaginably dense point which then exploded giving rise to everything we see around us, the galaxies, stars, planets and us is somehow less batsh1t insane then an all powerful deity creating the entire Universe and everything in it, sending his son to Earth to die for our sins so we can join them both in Heaven.

    Sound about the same to me tbh!

    ah the old "dont know where the universe started, must have been a wizard"


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,738 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    AeoNGriM wrote: »
    So everything in the Universe originating from a tiny, unimaginably dense point which then exploded giving rise to everything we see around us, the galaxies, stars, planets and us is somehow less batsh1t insane then an all powerful deity creating the entire Universe and everything in it, sending his son to Earth to die for our sins so we can join them both in Heaven.
    Sound about the same to me tbh!
    I started reading your post got to the highlighted bit and broke my ****e laughing, this has to be a windup no one would ever condense that crazy story to those lines and expect anyone to believe it! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    talkinyite wrote: »
    Maybe for a wedding but not a funeral. The only time I ever went to a mass was after my mate had killed himself, the priest said he was going to hell.

    I love how the church flip flops on stuff like that, fire and brimstone sermons but if you asked a priest to his face if unbaptised children go to hell they'd probably say no, which I think they do now despite making parents bury their kids in unmarked graves or on unconsecrated ground for decades before. Purgatory? yup, totally exists....oh wait, no thats not there anymore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    I started reading your post got to the highlighted bit and broke my ****e laughing, this has to be a windup no one would ever condense that crazy story to those lines and expect anyone to believe it! :D

    thats essentially it though when you boil the christian belief down, that an all powerful space wizard inpregnated a woman through....we'll say magic, and created a son, who is also part of himself, to suffer and die for all mans sins, he also has a list of things he doesnt like, yet claims you have the free will to not do them,except if you dont you'll go to hell, because he loves you.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭Nothingbetter2d


    i shudder to think if clerical abuse was so widespread in the first world countries where we had stable governments and rule of law just how bad must it be in 3rd world countries that lack stable governments and are pretty much lawless?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭talkinyite


    oh yeah? I don't know much about that stuff. Didn't know I couldn't be buried in a normal graveyard.

    I told a lie actually I was in mass twice. The first time was after/for the Omagh bombing. That one was grand as far as I can remember.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    COYW wrote: »
    easisingles.

    As someone looking into Catholicism from the outside, I still think that it is at the core of this country. People might not go to mass every Sunday but once a baptism, first communion, confirmation, marriage etc comes around, you can bet your bottom dollar that a heavy majority of people will be off to the RC church.

    Mention the words "orange order" and all the RC-ism comes to the fore in Irish people and they become deeply offended.
    This is true to a degree. But I think this is changing. The revolution against the Roman Catholic Church is under way and I think the tide is turning. No longer is the Irish Republic now being dictated to by Rome and controlled by Rome as much as it was.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,738 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    krudler wrote: »
    thats essentially it though when you boil the christian belief down, that an all powerful space wizard inpregnated a woman through....we'll say magic, and created a son, who is also part of himself, to suffer and die for all mans sins, he also has a list of things he doesnt like, yet claims you have the free will to not do them,except if you dont you'll go to hell, because he loves you.

    Yeah cool story bro, but I think the prequel will be better.
    The one about the angel loved by god the most getting jealous and causing a war in heaven.
    Dont think i'll watch the spin off where man in a floating zoo grows a beard though.

    All the stories sound insane when compacted i just didnt think someone would use a ridiculous compacted versions to disprove anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,738 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    krudler wrote: »
    I love how the church flip flops on stuff like that, fire and brimstone sermons but if you asked a priest to his face if unbaptised children go to hell they'd probably say no, which I think they do now despite making parents bury their kids in unmarked graves or on unconsecrated ground for decades before. Purgatory? yup, totally exists....oh wait, no thats not there anymore.

    Yeah I would have hated to be going to the pearly gates the day that happened, talk about long queues as thousands of years of purgatory residents try to enter heaven! :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    krudler wrote: »
    if you asked a priest to his face if unbaptised children go to hell they'd probably say no, which I think they do now

    The old view changed a long time ago

    And some offical statement/ruling was released back in the nineties
    krudler wrote: »
    Purgatory? yup, totally exists....oh wait, no thats not there anymore.

    That was limbo, purgatory still exists


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭Nothingbetter2d


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    This is true to a degree. But I think this is changing. The revolution against the Roman Catholic Church is under way and I think the tide is turning. No longer is the Irish Republic now being dictated to by Rome and controlled by Rome as much as it was.

    your right now ireland is being dictated to by Germany


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,738 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    This is the key quote here. The Roman Catholic Church is controlled and runned by criminals. The key to keeping the Roman Catholic Church going is based on corruption and bullsh*tting people. From the covering up of child abuse by the pope to feeding poor people in Africa who are in poverty lies about contraception.


    The pope is the key to all this. For the Church to continue, they need to carry on the way they are doing. The thinking people in society will reject the Roman Catholic Church but they get by OK because sadly there is plenty of people in the world who believe the bullsh*t they spout.

    Its not just the "Roman Catholic church" though is it keith?
    The entire christian belief is being questioned in europe.

    The chruch of england is in serious decline and turmoil over its direction, something like 25% in france now declare themselves athetists.

    These men in robes and their unseen gods are no longer really relevant to those of us no matter what their core believe is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    1: Apologised unreservedly for the sins perpetrated by members of the Catholic Church in the past and to refuse to offer protection to said parties, help bring them to justice and to bring any future criminals to justice.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologies_by_Pope_John_Paul_II
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2010/mar/20/religion-catholicism


    2: Preached that tolerance and respect for one and other was the most important teaching of the church and that though some aspects of modern life went against the traditional teaching of the church, (such as homosexuality and contraception) it was no ones else’s place to judge these choices or people but the person in question and God.

    This is pretty much the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. Although it'll never be the "most important" - the golden commandment is to Love God and Love your neighbour. You hear that preached from the top down and in tens of thousands of churches year in, year out around the world.
    3: Started selling off buildings and the huge collections of art owned by the church and funneling most of the funds directly into charity work for the poor in society and the rest to purchasing more meager functional properties.

    You mean this kind of thing: http://www.cinews.ie/article.php?artid=6055

    I'm sure I don't need to tell you about the many poverty, health, education, immigrant/emmigrant care, international development projects run by the diocesan churches or religious orders.

    Church art is usually functional and does not, in general, command the huge prices achieved for non-religious works.

    On buildings (and associated art) - while, you may not see it as such, the primary function of the physical church on earth is to convert souls and give glory to God. That's why churches are pretty....and the age of some of them means they cost a ****-load to maintain.


    So I guess my take on your question OP is that this utopia you describe is by-and-large already happening or has always been the case. Sure, the church and most of its members could do better though.

    To those who place themselves outside of the church, looking in who want a slightly less catholic, bit more cuddly church.......I'd say you need to rethink what "the church" is for.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    krudler wrote: »
    I love how the church flip flops on stuff like that, fire and brimstone sermons but if you asked a priest to his face if unbaptised children go to hell they'd probably say no, which I think they do now despite making parents bury their kids in unmarked graves or on unconsecrated ground for decades before. Purgatory? yup, totally exists....oh wait, no thats not there anymore.

    It's hardly the Church's fault that God keeps changing the Heaven/Hell policy...


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