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Newly qualifieds; The future, moving abroad etc

2

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    mitzicat wrote: »
    Really? By newly qualified, do you mean completed the Fe1s, or completed the training contract? Do you know what he/she had to go through to get accredited over there?

    I would assume completing the training contract - FE1s mean nothing to anyone outside of the Republic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Genuine question: are many people switching from barrister/solicitor to the other? I don't often hear about it, but I'd imagine it would be an ok prospect for some people in both professions.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Genuine question: are many people switching from barrister/solicitor to the other? I don't often hear about it, but I'd imagine it would be an ok prospect for some people in both professions.

    A handful each year from each to each. Maybe a dozen or less of each.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭johnfás


    I imagine it is easier to move from solicitor to barrister than in the reverse. A solicitor would have built up contacts etc in order to try to get briefed. Conversely most barristers would have little experience in the practicalities of conveyancing etc. Obviously as you move into niche areas it is a different story.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭dats_right


    johnfás wrote: »
    I imagine it is easier to move from solicitor to barrister than in the reverse. A solicitor would have built up contacts etc in order to try to get briefed. Conversely most barristers would have little experience in the practicalities of conveyancing etc. Obviously as you move into niche areas it is a different story.

    Barristers would have very little experience in the day to day realities of managing a file, dealing with clients and not being able to spend a couple of months in the South of France during the Long Vacation!

    I think it is fair to say that no barrister has a practice quite like a solicitor, but a few solicitors may practice like barristers in terms of the extent and quality of their advocacy.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    DR, i dont think all barristers summer in the South of France, but O agree with you about the long holidays the Bar enjoy.

    This was orginally so that the landed gentry practising at the bar could stay on their estates to save the harvest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    nuac wrote: »
    DR, i dont think all barristers summer in the South of France, but O agree with you about the long holidays the Bar enjoy.

    This was orginally so that the landed gentry practising at the bar could stay on their estates to save the harvest.

    Is the above not a fine example of what is wrong about The Bar ? By that I mean it's riddled with silly practices and restrictions that pass under the guise of ' tradition ' ?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Delancey wrote: »
    Is the above not a fine example of what is wrong about The Bar ? By that I mean it's riddled with silly practices and restrictions that pass under the guise of ' tradition ' ?

    Nothing to do with the bar so much as the courts. Don't forget that judges and litigation solicitors will also experience the reduced level of activity when the higher courts are on vacation.

    While we are at it, why do schools and colleges also have these long summer breaks? Parliamentarians etc?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    dont know my exact status yet. there's a fairly high chance ill be out in april when my indentures expire. there's a partners meeting to discuss it soon and ill know then. i had hoped to get 6 months or so under my belt from april, giving me a decent period of pqe and also giving some breathing space in trying to find a new job/prepare for moving abroad and alleviating the immediate pressure that comes with that.

    disillusioned in general. if i had my time over again there isnt a chance i'd go down this road. the stress, **** money, lousy job prospects- just isnt worth it. maybe im just tired of living in ireland. a fresh start is probably needed. right now, im weighing up every possible potential opportunity/option

    A few different problems there though. There is an incredible and discernible negativity in Ireland at the minute, and the legal profession particular. I can understand wanting to get out from that perspective.

    Where to though, to do what? Big questions. If you want to stay in law than England is do-able.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    A few different problems there though. There is an incredible and discernible negativity in Ireland at the minute, and the legal profession particular. I can understand wanting to get out from that perspective.

    Where to though, to do what? Big questions. If you want to stay in law than England is do-able.
    I can only really speak for the barrister side of things, but from a cursory look at jobs both in England and here, it would seem that solicitors have a huge advantage in getting jobs in-house here (since barristers effectively have to leave the library) but that advantage seems much more slight in England (if there is an advantage at all).

    As for barristers getting in chambers in England, my understanding is you can forget that entirely.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    Anyone any idea how the BL is seen internationally for jobs? I mean legal related or not but not practice ofc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Anyone any idea how the BL is seen internationally for jobs? I mean legal related or not but not practice ofc.
    It's a professional qualification, so it's useful in the UK and (presumably) also Canada, Australia, New Zealand. I'm pretty sure it entitles you to sit all bar exams in the US as well (obviously you only need/needed an undergraduate degree for California and New York).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭dats_right


    nuac wrote: »
    DR, i dont think all barristers summer in the South of France

    Quite right, of course, many can now also be found in and around Marbella! Only kidding, Nuac (well-sort of). Perhaps, I should have qualified my comments by saying all SCs, BLs of 10+years call and the Judiciary..

    In all seriousness though, two months for vacation is perhaps not necessary in this day and age. Perhaps shortening it to just the month of August with Courts re-opening in September would be more appropriate.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    DR - also to be found in Roundstone, Renvyle, Achill.

    I imagine the Shatter refrms will shorten the Long Vac to August.

    I MAyo most solicitors close the first ( or bank holiday ) week of Aug - even that can be hard to achieve


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,028 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    For moving abroad, will a law degree be sufficient or would you need to have completed a training contract/finished deviling before you have any chance of finding work abroad?

    I'd be well up for moving abroad but if I'm not going to be staying in Ireland, would rather avoid the money involved in qualifying as a solicitor/barrister.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    Lockstep wrote: »
    For moving abroad, will a law degree be sufficient or would you need to have completed a training contract/finished deviling before you have any chance of finding work abroad?

    I'd be well up for moving abroad but if I'm not going to be staying in Ireland, would rather avoid the money involved in qualifying as a solicitor/barrister.

    Well, you'll have get a professional qualification somewhere, whether that be here or abroad.

    A law degree would get you a number of jobs, or at least interviews, in other common law (and civil) jurisdictions, but obviously you'd need a solicitor/barrister qualification (be it Irish or domestic in whatever country you intend to work) to practice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,009 ✭✭✭kronsington


    Hope you're all well. I am at a serious crossroads now. Will be qualified over the next few weeks and will be out of the office at the end of june. I am genuinely not sure if i want to remain in law at this point and think i need some time to think things through, clear my head and decide what i'd like to do next or what my options (if any) are. Ideally, I'd like to move abroad for 6/7 months, get a job and earn some cash for some possible travelling. Short term, if I could a job in OZ, Can that is law related or something off the back of the qualification, I would take it. Long term, I am not so sure. Any advice? As Ive said in this forum i am very much thinking bigger picture and whether there is a future in this. the money is terrible, the stress, pressure and everything else, really, right now do not feel worth it. Anyone in a similar situation or think I am talking complete nonsense?


  • Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭hada


    Hope you're all well. I am at a serious crossroads now. Will be qualified over the next few weeks and will be out of the office at the end of june. I am genuinely not sure if i want to remain in law at this point and think i need some time to think things through, clear my head and decide what i'd like to do next or what my options (if any) are. Ideally, I'd like to move abroad for 6/7 months, get a job and earn some cash for some possible travelling. Short term, if I could a job in OZ, Can that is law related or something off the back of the qualification, I would take it. Long term, I am not so sure. Any advice? As Ive said in this forum i am very much thinking bigger picture and whether there is a future in this. the money is terrible, the stress, pressure and everything else, really, right now do not feel worth it. Anyone in a similar situation or think I am talking complete nonsense?

    Well, what type of practice did you train in? Commercial, criminal, general? Reputation of the firm you trained with?

    If it was a big commercial firm, there might be jobs for you in Oz.

    Consider looking into academia? Plenty of scope for travel abroad there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,009 ✭✭✭kronsington


    hada wrote: »
    Well, what type of practice did you train in? Commercial, criminal, general? Reputation of the firm you trained with?

    If it was a big commercial firm, there might be jobs for you in Oz.

    Consider looking into academia? Plenty of scope for travel abroad there.

    General Practice in Limerick- nowhere near on the level of the big commercial firms

    Haven't considered academia but i guess it wouldn't hurt at this point


  • Registered Users Posts: 47 galwaybetty


    Kronsington, Im in a pretty similar situation too. Im in a general practice firm in County Dublin. While I am glad I got experience in Personal Injury, Crime, Family,Debt Collection, Licensing and Employment I have virtually no Conveyancing or Probate experience.

    I have spoken to my boss and he has indicated to me that while they would like to keep me on, it would have to be on a month by month basis. I know I have no prospects in that particular firm but I would like to do some Conveyancing or Probate before I go elsewhere.

    Re leaving the law :I love my job, love the people, but I am tired of panicking every time I go to the ATM.

    I attended a careers workshop recently and Keith O Malley said not to leap into just any job, that you can paint yourself into a corner by going into a specialised area. Id like to stay in general practice, but I know the smaller firms are less likely to hire newly qualified solicitors!

    Lots of my tutorial group in Blackhall are emigrating to the UK or the States. At least one of them is talking about leaving the law altogether to get a job that will actually pay him a decent wage. Ive been considering moving to the States to work as a paralegal to work in Intellectual Property or Medical Litigation. Ive also been thinking about working as inhouse counsel with an Insurance company.

    Anyway, good to see someone else panicking, I was wondering if I was being overly pessimistic....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 47 galwaybetty


    Well I'm out of my place at the end of June. I have heard about a few people getting jobs, so Im hoping theres more out there. I guess all I can do is bang out the cvs and see what happens.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Lockstep wrote: »
    For moving abroad, will a law degree be sufficient or would you need to have completed a training contract/finished deviling before you have any chance of finding work abroad?

    I'd be well up for moving abroad but if I'm not going to be staying in Ireland, would rather avoid the money involved in qualifying as a solicitor/barrister.

    Within Europe, it shouldn't matter a great deal. You should read up more on the regulations set down in compliance with this directive in whatever EU jurisdiction you're moving to, if you're moving to a European jurisdiction.

    I'm doing a postgrad at the moment but would have no hesitation about relocating in the EU, and I can't understand why more individuals don't take up these opportunities, whether qualified here or just graduated with a law degree; it's an ideal alternative that could suit a lot of people, especially those who have studied law with a language.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,324 ✭✭✭BillyMitchel


    I'll be starting a law in NUI in Sept and this thread was depressing as hell to read!

    Anyone brave enough to predict massive improvements in 4 years? Studying law is something I've always been passionate about and have always wanted to do but it's never really been an option until now, I really don't want to change my mind. It's also going to cost me a small fortune in fees etc and thats something else I have to keep in mind.

    I've also sent out some letters and CV's to local practices for some work experience over the summer. I'd be happy with a few hours a week, just to even get a feel of the working environment. This a good idea or waste of time?

    It will be my second degree and a complete career change. I'll also be 30 starting so I really cannot afford to make the wrong decision but let me state this again. It's something I'm very passionate about and have wanted to do for a long long time, I'm willing to put every ounce of effort and cent I possibly can to get my law degree.

    Sorry if I've gone slightly OT but any responses will be greatly appreciated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    Work experience is one of the best things you can do for your CV and usually during your degree you are only in 4/5 days so you could see if you can work for a firm on fridays and then more over the breaks. That technique got me an offer of a contract which I turned down for other reasons.

    Also, what is your first degree?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,324 ✭✭✭BillyMitchel


    NoQuarter wrote: »
    Work experience is one of the best things you can do for your CV and usually during your degree you are only in 4/5 days so you could see if you can work for a firm on fridays and then more over the breaks. That technique got me an offer of a contract which I turned down for other reasons.

    Also, what is your first degree?

    Completely unrelated, graphic/web design.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    Completely unrelated, graphic/web design.

    I ask because some degrees mean that a law degree is not needed to sit the FE1s which are the exams needed to become a solicitor.

    Be aware from the start, that a pure law degree is not always the best way to go. Business & Law and other more commercial degrees have a lot of merit depending on what your ultimate goal is.

    My advice is to just do it if thats what you want. It is a financial struggle, no doubt about it. Depending on your goal, age isnt much of a factor, for example if you intend on becoming a Barrister, its common to see people in their 30s training.

    My advice would be to have a clear goal which will help you set off on the right path.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,324 ✭✭✭BillyMitchel


    NoQuarter wrote: »
    I ask because some degrees mean that a law degree is not needed to sit the FE1s which are the exams needed to become a solicitor.

    Be aware from the start, that a pure law degree is not always the best way to go. Business & Law and other more commercial degrees have a lot of merit depending on what your ultimate goal is.

    My advice is to just do it if thats what you want. It is a financial struggle, no doubt about it. Depending on your goal, age isnt much of a factor, for example if you intend on becoming a Barrister, its common to see people in their 30s training.

    My advice would be to have a clear goal which will help you set off on the right path.

    Thanks for the replies.

    While i was applying to colleges DIT came back and offered this post grad: http://www.dit.ie/socialscienceslaw/law/postgraduateprogrammes/postgraduatediplomainlaw/ I did think about just doing the post grad but I thought employment opportunities would be much better if I had an actual law degree. The lecturers I spoke to at various universities agreed that having a law degree would increase my prospects as to just having the post grad.

    It's the LLB course I'm doing in NUIM.

    At this stage my goal is solicitor but that could change to barrister while in college.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,639 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Completely unrelated, graphic/web design.
    Best of luck. My ex-Team lead in the IT industry went the FE1/apprentice route to become a solicitor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    Make sure to look into whether you can sit any of the FE1s before you get your law degree, it might be possible as you already have a degree. If it is possible, make sure to do them throughout your degree while you are covering those topics in the degree. That could save you a year or two.

    Other than that, try your hardest to get an internship during every summer you are off and build up the CV with extra curriculars.

    Good luck, you'll need it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,324 ✭✭✭BillyMitchel


    Manach wrote: »
    Best of luck. My ex-Team lead in the IT industry went the FE1/apprentice route to become a solicitor.

    Any idea of how it worked out for him?
    NoQuarter wrote: »
    Make sure to look into whether you can sit any of the FE1s before you get your law degree, it might be possible as you already have a degree. If it is possible, make sure to do them throughout your degree while you are covering those topics in the degree. That could save you a year or two.

    Other than that, try your hardest to get an internship during every summer you are off and build up the CV with extra curriculars.

    Good luck, you'll need it.

    Cheers, thanks for your advice.


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