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Is the dole too generous?

  • 22-01-2009 12:55pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    The dole in Ireland should be 100 euro plus rent allowance. The figure should be set way below the baseline for paying tax so that if they go get a job for 250/300 a week they will not pay tax (or just pay a small amount) thus encouraging them to work. The problem many people have now is that working might only bring in an extra 50/100 euro a week more than the dole thus they decide to just stay on the dole instead and do a small bit of cash work on the side e.g. minding kids.

    There is no justification for 204 euro a week (plus all the allowances) since it only encourages unemployment. If the dole was lowered as such I guarentee people would take up part time employment and work in fast food restaurants etc.

    The question is can they get away with lowering the dole? Remember those that are on it have nothing else to do but protest etc (granted there are many on it that would be too lazy to even do that).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭hobochris


    The dole should be at a level where people on it can just about live. If they want more money then they should get a job.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Show_me_Safety


    i also think that 100 euro a week plus rent allowance is appropriate.
    200 a week is more than i live on a week.100euro does me...and i pay 20 a week for the dart!


  • Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭ITDept


    I would agree that 200 a week is a lot for doing nothing. It annoys me that there's no difference between being on the dole and being on FAS training; it also annoys me that you don't need to be looking for work to qualify for the dole - anyone can produce a few email PFOs.

    Reduce the dole, keep the training allowance at 200 and demand that people bring in proper proof of looking for jobs or apply through a job centre system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭Irlbo


    The answer is no,try and live on it for a week


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    This has been done to death on another thread ie. "Is the dole to much"


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    Fully agree with Irlbo. I was on and still am on a fairly good wage but last November I was forced to go in the dole for 6 weeks and it was a shock. The dole is around a quarter of my take home pay and I still live at home. The dole for me was just enough to get from week to week. On a good week I'd have 10-20 left over for a drink or two at the weekend. Thankfully I'm back in my old job and never want to be in that position again. I don't how people can live on that especially if you are living on your own.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 885 ✭✭✭Spyral


    If they want more money then they should get a job.

    it takes money to get a job.. driving etc..

    In addition I dont think I was treated as friendly as foreigners from a certain L-named country who were at the desk beside me today.

    They're begrudging people while the Taoiseach gets paid more than Obama... nice one lads..

    Then I'm told because I 'lived abroad' (went to uni actually to try to make something of myself) it would take THREE MONTHS to get any job seeking allowance..

    This country is a joke, first opportunity I am away.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭RiverWilde


    No the dole isn't too much.
    What is too much are the hoops honest people have to go through to get it.
    When this is coupled with the daft waiting time it all adds up to yet another Joke.


    Riv


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,774 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    Never been on the dole, never want to. 200 is far too much, I reckon 100 a week and a lifetime limit you can get that amount on. If you go over the limit the government offers you three local jobs and if you don't take any then you do community service for for half the 100 a week. I got by in England for two years in college on around 80eur a week and the current dole is an absolute joke.

    "it was a shock. The dole is around a quarter of my take home pay "

    So you get 3200 after-tax a month on a regular basis? Lol boo fricking hoo


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,924 ✭✭✭Raiser


    This post has been deleted.

    Which is preferable, to give our tax revenue to the British or the HSE?

    - Tough call......


  • Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭johnnyc


    hobochris wrote: »
    The dole should be at a level where people on it can just about live. If they want more money then they should get a job.

    hobochris have you searched for a job recently? doubt you have


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37 tapjlk6


    Yes the dole is to much.
    If your single and living away from home you get 204 plus rent allowance. more than enough.
    Why do you think the Irish would not take the low paid jobs. 40 hours at 9 euro is 360 euro. Take your rent out of that.
    Whos better off?
    I think if the goverment want workers to take a reduction in wages then the dole should come down by the same amount


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Depends on whether you are asking the question from the viewpoint of an individual or of society?

    An individual who is on the dole would probably conclude that it is not enough, as even people on high earnings look for more.

    From a society's point of view, there are two questions to answer.

    (1) does it provide an acceptable minimum level of comfort and living standards?
    (2) does it encourage or discourage a return to work?

    Too often, these two questions conflict. An adequate living standard may involve a payment so high as to discourage an unemployed person to obtain work. It is not easy to say whether 100, 200 or 300 euro is too much dole money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23 eoghanmcdonnell


    I don't think it is too much, but i do think that the whole social welfare system needs to be reformed. As a previous post said, it generally takes money to get work so on paper, the dole is the right amount considering how expensive this country is. We also have very high taxes that allow us to pay out such welfare..

    I needed to go on the dole after finishing college last year. You might have called me Mr. Dole. But was refused 3 times and gave up. I struggled to pay my rent and live through giving guitar lessons and delivering chipper while people who are just playing the system were living above the breadline. Luckily I got another job last November but it really opened my eyes to the state of the system. A total reform is needed, I don't know how or what kind of system but there has to be a better one. The amount of money it will free up can be put into the garda and health budgets so this country isn't completely ruined in the next few years. Rant over.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭decies


    Perhaps if all ye people who think its to much lose your jobs, you might actually take off your rose tinted glasses.Have a bit of cop on :mad::mad::mad:.No wonder people will leave this country :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Fraud is the single biggest issue in regards to welfare payments.If this area was better policed and some real action taken against offenders it would free up more resources as another poster said.

    The dole is not too generous, its just enough and for all those looking for it to be lowered you might stop to think that not one of you is immune from ever having to claim it in the current climate so I wouldnt be so quick to speak about a situation you obviously have no clue about.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 495 ✭✭Tony Broke


    It should be half minimum wage, what really sickens me is the amount of travellers on the dole :mad:

    Not being racist or anything, but the amount of them on the dole is a disgrace.Know one ever brings this up, why?

    If I had to put a figure on it, I would say 90% of them are on the dole.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    I was on the dole twice, both in the 1990s so I can partly understand what it is like but just not what it is like to be on the dole if I had to pay two mortgages.

    My 2c is the dole is too much. €100 a week would suffice along with rent/mortgage allowance. If ye have kids maybe an allowance of €20-30 a week for each child.

    The social welfare system should be reformed so you dont have to wait 13 weeks (??) to get it. Any jobs applied for should be done through the welfare themselves. Cuts out the half arsed proof needed to stay on the dole.

    I also think the childrens allowance should be reformed to include the first three children only. I you have any more kids after the third, you will have to finance that child yourself. This would be regardless if you are working or not. I'd even go to the extreme of placing a minimum age for claiming childrens allowance. Say 20yrs old before you are eligible to make a claim.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    TheNog wrote: »

    I also think the childrens allowance should be reformed to include the first three children only. I you have any more kids after the third, you will have to finance that child yourself. This would be regardless if you are working or not. I'd even go to the extreme of placing a minimum age for claiming childrens allowance. Say 20yrs old before you are eligible to make a claim.


    This makes no sense as the only ones who suffer are the kids themsleves. Why punish children for the actions of their parents


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭FreedomJoe


    The dole isnt the problem.

    The problem is the lack of services and care for people on the dole.

    Someone can be on the dole in this country and not actually see a government offical in relation to finding work!

    The only thing required is for them to sign on once a month, and at Christmas time once over 2 months!

    We need to introuduce a system for all people on the dole and not just new applicants where you are required to sign on every two weeks in a office where you meet with an offical wo asks you what you have been doing for work, what other jobs are available and what training they can offer.

    If you fail to meet the requirments then you lose the dole.

    A similar scheme to the UK.

    But we also need to stop all these welfare payments to kids of foreign nationals who arent even in the country, first!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭RiverWilde


    FreedomJoe wrote: »
    We need to introuduce a system for all people on the dole and not just new applicants where you are required to sign on every two weeks in a office where you meet with an offical wo asks you what you have been doing for work, what other jobs are available and what training they can offer.

    That would be a great idea. However, access to training in this country is so tightly regulated you'd be quicker getting an invite to the White House Christmas party.

    If you want to go to college or train as anything you'll get F/all support from social welfare.

    As it stands the system as it currently exists is as follows:

    1: Here have your stipend.
    2: Have you applied for a job recently?
    3: If no: You're not getting your stipend.
    4: If you don't like your stipend feel free to emigrate.

    Riv


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,324 ✭✭✭tallus


    Try paying a mortgage while on the dole. I was out of work and went on to a community employment scheme. I almost lost my house in the process.
    I applied for a lot of jobs while on the dole and out of about 50 applications I got 3 returned answers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    Why not review the other parts of the Social Welfare benefit system instead?
    For instance, why does a double-earning couple in the 41% (+1% levy of course) tax bracket receive child benefit per child? Why should people already earning well qualify, without even a means test, for a benefit when they already have money to raise those children?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    We also have very high taxes that allow us to pay out such welfare..
    We actually don't have high taxes when compared to the rest of the world. In addition, we have the lowest spending on social services per capita in Europe.
    Tony Broke wrote: »
    If I had to put a figure on it, I would say 90% of them are on the dole.
    Can you back that up with a source?

    One change I would make is in relation to people who work part-time and claim the dole. At the moment if you work one hour on one day, it's considered a full working day.And if you work for more than 3 days in a week, you can't claim for the other days.

    So if you work 1 hour, 4 days/week, technically you cannot claim any dole. This results in people thinking (rightly) they're better off rejecting the part-time work and just going on the full dole. The aim should always be to encourage people to work instead of being on the dole. However, there's a fine line between achieving this aim and "punishing" people for being unemployed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    This post has been deleted.

    We actually have very low (direct) taxes in this country. I think there should be a distinction in payments beween people who do nothing (give them say 100 p.w.) and people who try to get a job or who were recently laid off, or are doing a training course, who should get the current payment.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Why not review the other parts of the Social Welfare benefit system instead?
    For instance, why does a double-earning couple in the 41% (+1% levy of course) tax bracket receive child benefit per child? Why should people already earning well qualify, without even a means test, for a benefit when they already have money to raise those children?

    Politically unpopular - btw I reckon it would cost more to adminster the means test. And I have 3 kids. Also the hoo-ha about the pensioners getting medical cards up to 700 pw :eek:


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