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First Recurve Bow... Help

  • 14-01-2012 6:39pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 23


    Hey guys!! Been shooting with the UCC archery team since the start of the year, (due to recent injury 'm missing out on shooting for a while, ****ing leg cast) and due to needing physio etc over the coming months dunno how much shooting I will be getting to do with them.

    Been crazy into looking into archery gear since I joined the sport, finally investigating what kinda bow I wanna buy. Seeing as 'll be getting one once 'm all healed up I thought 'd ask for advice now and save myself some confusion later on :D

    SO!!! Can anyone point out any problems with the kit out below??? I'm a nineteen year old (male), not particularly strong so assuming the 26 pound limbs are reasonable and cheap enough to move up from. What kinda arrows should I get, what length etc? Happy to pay around 400 euro for a kit that'll last me!

    All advice welcome


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Maicros


    Well first of all Welcome back!

    Now for the gear I would strongly recommend staying away from sf gear, there sights rattle (issues with tightening screws) and the limbs are prone to stacking. Instead I would advise looking at the samick vision and matching limbs. These may be a little more expensive but should last longer.

    The arrows are a little tougher, I would be leery of anything outside the competition section. They might be ok but generally arrows of leisure are "arrows to break", or at least that is my view. When I started shooting I used easton jazz aluminium's and I thought they were great. They are though, durable and with a low poundage they will be nice and thin. They are also good for field and indoor and low priced.

    The string is good and should not stretch much after the first hundred arrows. The case should do you for a long while but you may need to buy a backpack later to carry all the bits you'll accumulate.

    The sight is not great, the screw which locks down the sight pin loosens really quickly and rattles a lot. But all beginner sights do this, so get a cheap sight and upgrade later.

    I have not shot the stabiliser but I would recommend the cartel long rod having used it.

    As for the glove I find tabs to be much more consistent. Buying from merlins I would advise the aco hockii tab because of its great reviews and cheap replacement through spare parts.

    That's my two cents but I highly advise you talk to the coach at UCC aswell.

    Hope this helps!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 bconmy


    Thanks for the info, 'm putting together a different kart now with a few changes :D

    The arrow selection is a little tougher, needing to pick a spine stiffness and all, 'm worried about making a mistake there. Also the price is suddenly increasing a lot haha, good thing my bday is coming up..


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Maicros


    I know what you mean but it will be awhile before you need to get anything else, and yes b-day's do help :D

    As for the arrows try this link. Its an easton shaft selector which I use to select arrow spine.

    http://www.eastonarchery.com/img/downloads/software/EastonShaftSelector2011.zip


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    bconmy, for the price of the riser in your basket, how would like an olympic class riser? One that has set world records, the largest selling sports product in history.

    There are many Hoyt Gold Medalists available second hand from Ebay-UK at that price. Now pretty, not shiney but the pedigree is unbeatable. Its' basic geometry is still the back-bone of a lot of the current Hoyt range.

    If not a GM, second hand stuff will probably be of better quality for the price of the new item.

    A real trophy is the Hoyt Eclipse, if you can get your hands on one. There are rumours Hoyt stopped selling them as they were too good at item for the price point, having features Hoyt liked to reserve for higher end models.

    If at all possible, try before you buy. You are not buying a riser. You are buying a grip. Any riser will take limbs and hold them apart while allowing expensive items to be screwed into it. A grip that is comfortable for you makes a much bigger difference to you than the rest of the riser.

    I have Samick Vision Fibre limbs, they are 'workman-like'. They do what they are meant do. On the other hand I was a lot happer with the output from my basic Winstorm limbs. You will probably work through your first set of limbs fairly quickly so don't sweat it too much. With time you'll get experience as to what you like. Just don't buy limbs with Hoyt written on them without comparing them against other limbs of a similar price.
    Again, check out Ebay for second hand limb prices. I prefer to buy limbs new but you may find a bargain.

    Arrows, you'll probably need about a dozen. Jazz are great value for money and easy to assemble yourself. Once you get the basic form down and are shooting outdoors look for carbon arrows. You MUST try field shooting!!!

    As Maicros said, buy a tab.

    You forgot a plunger. Buy a Shibuya DX. End of.

    You'll need a spare string and a sling of some sort.

    Buy Ruth Rowes 'Fundamentals of Recurve Target Archery'. A disjointed read but good pictures and she gets her message across.

    I shoot barebow so I'll stop typing now.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 23 bconmy


    Few questions in response to that, what does a plunger do?? Still new to this whole archery thing :D

    Also, how do I know what spine stiffness to choose in arrows? I know how to get the length right, 'll get measured soon.

    'll check out the archery book too, thanks =)


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    A plunger is a spring loaded nose that presses against the front of the arrow at the arrow rest. It is screwed into the riser.
    It can be used to set centreshot (the distance out from the window plate the arrow is set during basic set up) and to a degree to do some fine tuning of impact left and right.
    Essentially, it's a shock absorber that blunts some of the effects of a bad release.

    dxplunger-150x200.jpg

    Take a look at this. You'll find a lot of useful info in that.

    To work out the spine of arrow you need you need to know the poundage on your fingers at your drawlength and the required length of your arrow.

    Your poundage at DL could be calculated but would be better measured if possible.
    The arrow length you need is one that gives an arrow about 1-2" in front of the riser. This gives you the opportunity to shorten the arrow as you increase in poundage so the same arrows are still suitable.

    As your form improves your DL may increase too. It would be best to get a hands on person to guide you as to your DL, arrow length and run through a spine chart with you.


    Here's a link to a spine chart.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Maicros


    My turn :D ....

    A "plunger button" is used for a variety of things. Above all it keeps your arrow from hitting your riser both before (on the rest) and during flight. When an arrow is shot from a bow the back half of the arrow travels faster than the front half causing the arrow to bend, the position of the button puts it in the arrows path. So when the arrow bends it push's on the button, the button has a spring inside which creates a resisting force taking some of the horizontal movement out of the arrow and allowing for tuning (another time).

    Now spine stiffness, go here :
    http://eastonarchery.com/store/shaft_selector
    or use the above software I recommended which is found on the easton website (link above).

    Now on to Greysides post...

    Ok so the GM is a good riser and I have nothing against it, but it is a little .... outdated (pause for the boo's). You see I would not mind this riser but I have never seen it used by anyone apart from yourself. I would also point out that of riser's from that era the hoyt matrix was more successful and is still used. It was the base design, but it was the base design for modern risers.

    As for buying a grip I agree that at a beginners level a riser is a riser but above that I would argue differently. As for the grip standard grips are best for now as he could lean towards a high or a low grip later.

    Hoyt limbs. Could not agree more I used to shoot a set of 900Cx limbs (no longer made) and didn't even realised they stacked until I tried a set of win and win limbs. Always try before you buy if possible and if you can't then ask someone who has had a set (beware of biased opinions) or check online atleast.

    Field shooting:
    Just brilliant, its good for your form as you do not have the option of a consistent stance which helps to create a greater awareness and understanding of your technique and above all its a great day out with lots of fun.

    So that about covers that. If you have any more questions or want the above clarified then just ask.


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Maicros


    DARN got there two seconds before me typical :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 bconmy


    I THINK I got most of that... 'm actually just gonna put together another cart on merlin archery based on all of your advice.

    Another few questions, if I have a draw length of about 28 inches and I want to go for a 25 inch riser like say the hoyt horizon, what length limbs should I go for? Also what's a reasonable starting weight for a beginner considering 'm by no means particularly strong?


  • Registered Users Posts: 653 ✭✭✭sean corcoran


    with regards arrows, i would use aluminium arrows myself and in my opinion they are my favourite, the length of the arrows would be custom to you, measure the distance from your right eye to the thumb of your fully outstreched left hand and add 2-3",

    for your draw weight what ever you are comfortable using then use it, i tought with 18-21 pound draw weights because they were good to use with beginners, the only way to tell what you would like to use in your own bow is to test fire different draw weights, if you find the 26 pound easy to use try a 30 or 32, dont try a dramatic increase unless you know you have the strength


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Maicros wrote: »

    Now on to Greysides post...

    Ok so the GM is a good riser and I have nothing against it, but it is a little .... outdated (pause for the boo's). You see I would not mind this riser but I have never seen it used by anyone apart from yourself. I would also point out that of riser's from that era the hoyt matrix was more successful and is still used. It was the base design, but it was the base design for modern risers.

    As for buying a grip I agree that at a beginners level a riser is a riser but above that I would argue differently. As for the grip standard grips are best for now as he could lean towards a high or a low grip later.

    And I would counter by saying that the Matrix is not of that generation, the Radian, Elan and Avalon being in between. Besides, ever notice how the Nexus is just a pimped up Matrix............and still following the GM's geometry.:D

    Agree on the grips, just get a riser with a comfortable grip to start with rather than a sexy riser with a grip that doesn't suit.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Maicros


    And I would counter by saying
    http://www.youtube.com/user/archerytv
    Find one :D


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    bconmy wrote: »

    Another few questions, if I have a draw length of about 28 inches and I want to go for a 25 inch riser like say the hoyt horizon, what length limbs should I go for? Also what's a reasonable starting weight for a beginner considering 'm by no means particularly strong?

    My wife has a 28" AMO drawlength i.e. 26 1/4" to the button and a nominal 1 3/4" to the 'back' of the riser.
    She uses a 66" set up- medium limbs and a 23" riser.
    I'd suggest a 68" set up, a 25" riser and medium limbs. The 25" riser would be easier to buy/sell second-hand.
    A 68" set up is also possible with a 23" riser and long limbs but I wouldn't recommend this for you.

    I like the look of the Horizon myself. And it should be possible to get interchangable grips for it too. If you are buying one from a shop, check that it's straight. There have been quality issues with the Excels and it's 'just' a longer version. I wouldn't get overly worried about that but if buying new it's always nice to be able to try it out and check it out.

    I started with 28# limbs giving about 30# on my fingers but archery isn't a macho sport if you want to be good. It's about control and dominating the bow. So don't go too heavy, learn your form with a light bow and learn it well, then go up in poundage.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 23 bconmy


    Thanks for all the advice, I need to do the right eye to left hand trick to pick the arrows out, 'll re upload my cart as it stands now afterwards.

    On another point, anyone have any experience with home made archery targets? Have an uncle who's a carpenter and 'm not useless with tools myself so was thinking of using carpet samples and keeping em together with wood to box them in, maybe 1mX1m in size..


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Maicros


    1984... that's not fair now, our modern risers didn't exist back then, so how is that a fair representation of riser trends.

    The video itself was enjoyable however, a four day shoot1!? And the sound of the bows too!


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Maicros


    Fourth thread below this one is what you're after


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Yip, an oldie but a goodie; maybe a golden oldie. :)

    Some of the older TD3's on that video too I think. Probably Yamaha's too.

    Agree on the sound, maybe the magnesium alloy in the riser.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Maicros wrote: »
    Fourth thread below this one is what you're after



    *SHAKES HEAD*


    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Lardy


    What are you shaking your head at??


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  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Maicros


    Lol it was me he was getting after for not using a link. Quick question what poundage is your bow? I am wondering if your target would stop arrows from a forty pound bow?

    To Greysides
    *SHAKES HEAD*


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Lardy


    No worries! :D

    My bow is 38/40lb at the moment. Arrows where shot from about 20 yards away. (Practice for Mailmatch)
    Don't mind my draw, its a work in progress! :D


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Lardy wrote: »
    What are you shaking your head at??
    Maicros wrote: »
    Lol it was me he was getting after for not using a link.

    To Greysides
    *SHAKES HEAD*

    Sorry Lardy. Maicros is correct. He needs to be kept in-tow.

    Maicros, you shouldn't shake your head at me too often. Look what happened to me- I've nothing to lose doing it any longer.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 653 ✭✭✭sean corcoran


    bconmy wrote: »
    Thanks for all the advice, I need to do the right eye to left hand trick to pick the arrows out, 'll re upload my cart as it stands now afterwards.

    On another point, anyone have any experience with home made archery targets? Have an uncle who's a carpenter and 'm not useless with tools myself so was thinking of using carpet samples and keeping em together with wood to box them in, maybe 1mX1m in size..

    make a square out of wood slightly larger than your target face, about say 2 feet deep, fill it with still yellow foam, you can buy this in diy shops, wrap it tight with cling film if you are leaving it outdoors and stabilise it by putting it between two stable wooden posts pushing the target together so it wont fall and sits snug,

    thats how i used to make my homemade targets, fairly easy to do and cost effective


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 bconmy


    So this is the new cart on merlin archery, any thoughts? Probably buying soon


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    From the hip:

    Swop the Cartel magnetic rest for the Hoyt Super rest and several spares.
    The Hoyt has been to the Olympics and didn't leave empty handed.

    Swop the Cartel Plunger for a Shibuya DX- it's been to the Olympics, keep the Cartel as a spare. It will be more expensive but you'll never need better.

    You'll need more than 6 arrows, I'd suggest 12. Arrows are cheaper to build yourself and it's easy to do. You'll need to be able to replace lost fletches at some point. Perhaps that's for another day if someone can do it for you, as would be learning to reserve the string.

    Target faces, 40 cm faces are used indoors at 18m; 80 cm at 30 and 50m (I think), and 122cm at 70 and 90m.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 23 bconmy


    Is there much of a cost involved in making arrows? Is it something everyone does?

    I'll add another few arrows to the kart, probably cheaper leisure ones and 'll change the button now for sure thanks :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Maicros


    Right first of all i would say not to go making arrows if you havn't been shown how. Its not that difficult but that said its not that difficult to overheat a point. Also you will need points (arrow tips) , fletch's, access to a jig, a heat source (a small flame torch would do) and nocks. Each piece would have suite the arrow in question too.

    Personally I get arrows pre-made (though I have made them too) my reasoning is if an arrow is in any way damaged I can send it back but if I splintered a carbon arrow while cutting it I would be liable.

    Button on the other hand is a great idea, I use the shibuya myself and have never had a problem with them.

    Now as for the arrows do not order two different types if six is all you can get then leave it at six and just be carefull (aka no field shooting without spares). You can only tune your bow to one set of arrows at a time so getting anything else would not work. So just stick to six.

    That's my 2 cents on it. hope this helps :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 bconmy


    Thanks for all the advice, the price of all the stuff is adding up to over 500 euro now so I may just get 8 or the premade easton jazz arrows and stick with that..

    Can't wait to just get the thing and be able to shoot


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  • Registered Users Posts: 49 Maicros


    I'll send you the invoice for the advice :)

    Although I think things already went up a bit huh? Don't worry all you'll have to buy from now on will be stuff to add onto the bow and at your own pace. Its just the initial shock all that's left is a few tremors.

    Good luck and remember to have fun!


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